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Will Pakistan become the 3rd largest nuclear power in the World?

1 We have hate against Pakistan not Islam. There are so many other islamic countries and we dont have any dispute with them. Hell we have good relations with both Israel and Arab Countries

2If US/Russia attack you you will nuke us :rofl: And you think we will just sit quietly. why do you forget we are also a nuclear power and will do massive dispropotionate reaction Do you think your country will survive an attack by US/Russia on one side and India on the other?
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1 We have hate against Pakistan not Islam. There are so many other islamic countries and we dont have any dispute with them. Hell we have good relations with both Israel and Arab Countries

2If US/Russia attack you you will nuke us :rofl: And you think we will just sit quietly. why do you forget we are also a nuclear power and will do massive dispropotionate reaction Do you think your country will survive an attack by US/Russia on one side and India on the other?

1. That's bcoz those hindutva goon can not afford to harm ME, if they harm them from very next day they will be behind Pakistan.. and the day you did any harm to them, they will kick millions of your kind back to gangaland.. And what will you say about those hindutva scums who worship Israel just bcoz they kill palestinians and Donald trump for hate against Muslims, i havent seen a zionist licking arse of israel and trump with so much passion..

2. where did i said you will sit and do nothing, offcourse you would strike already striked Pakistan.. Most probably we will survive a first strike, why would they waste their stockpile on Pakistan, dont they have to nuke rest of the world?
 
1. That's bcoz those hindutva goon can not afford to harm ME, if they harm them from very next day they will be behind Pakistan.. and the day you did any harm to them, they will kick millions of your kind back to gangaland.. And what will you say about those hindutva scums who worship Israel just bcoz they kill palestinians and Donald trump for hate against Muslims, i havent seen a zionist licking arse of israel and trump with so much passion..

2. where did i said you will sit and do nothing, offcourse you would strike already striked Pakistan.. Most probably we will survive a first strike, why would they waste their stockpile on Pakistan, dont they have to nuke rest of the world?

Why will we want to harm ME when we have no enemity to them. Saudis gave their highest civilian award to Modi whom you Pakistanis like to call as "Butcher of Gujarat". After Modi's visit Abu Dhabi is opening up a new Temple after Modi's Visit. We have a chabar port in Iran. And also note that ME is not the only region with muslim countries. We have very good relationship with Indonasia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, African Nations etc. Please tell me any other muslim country apart from Pakistan who is our enemy.. Yes we are a friend of Israel and proud of it. As for @$$ licking no one does more @$$ licking of Arabs and Chinese as you do

US/Russia does not have to use their nukes on you. If they attack you it will probably be to take control of your Nuclear Weapons before they fall into wrong hands. India will also not nuke you in first strike but if you nuke us (tactical or strategic) we will nuke you back dispropotionately
 
1 We have hate against Pakistan not Islam. There are so many other islamic countries and we dont have any dispute with them. Hell we have good relations with both Israel and Arab Countries

2If US/Russia attack you you will nuke us :rofl: And you think we will just sit quietly. why do you forget we are also a nuclear power and will do massive dispropotionate reaction Do you think your country will survive an attack by US/Russia on one side and India on the other?
Read below and as your lie gets debunked by your countrymen
Who's not to say that in the face of total annihilation India would take out the holiest sites in Islam?
 
Why will we want to harm ME when we have no enemity to them. Saudis gave their highest civilian award to Modi whom you Pakistanis like to call as "Butcher of Gujarat". After Modi's visit Abu Dhabi is opening up a new Temple after Modi's Visit. We have a chabar port in Iran. And also note that ME is not the only region with muslim countries. We have very good relationship with Indonasia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, African Nations etc. Please tell me any other muslim country apart from Pakistan who is our enemy.. Yes we are a friend of Israel and proud of it. As for @$$ licking no one does more @$$ licking of Arabs and Chinese as you do

US/Russia does not have to use their nukes on you. If they attack you it will probably be to take control of your Nuclear Weapons before they fall into wrong hands. India will also not nuke you in first strike but if you nuke us (tactical or strategic) we will nuke you back dispropotionately

you have no enmity with them yet your hidutva scums enjoy Israel killing Palestinians and you want to do same with Kashmiris, as i said your baniya kind cant afford a hostile ME, you are sucking them for your interests, they are giving you awards, that does not mean you are not hostile to them, there is no other group who despise Arabs for Islam more then hindus, even farsi cant reach that level, ok, whatever floats you boat, for me hindutva terrorists are biggest shit on earth which need to be erased... And sorry we are not scums like you bhangi kind, show me a picture where Pakistanis are worshiping XI or Obama? your bhangi kind do this on roads every other day..

And as for nukes, you believe to much bollywood shit, anyways they are already in wrong hands [your wrong hands are our right hands], did you forget your God israel and you combined were not able to touch our nuclear sites in 80's.. Anyways i was talking about a particular scenario in which they nuke us for being ally of china.
 
Pakistan should follow China model for its progress and development. China became a military super power first before it became the financial giant.
You got it wrong.

China became a financial giant first, and now enhancing its military might. Persian Gulf War (1991) motivated them towards these ends.

They build their ICBMs , their thermo nuclear warheads, to ensure that no one from outside can challenge them or interfere in their internal matters and their own indigenous path to national progress, before they went on to build their economy.
China had fought a war with the US (in Korea) and was not on friendly terms with the USSR either. It found itself in a geopolitical situation that nuclear deterrence was necessary for its survival. However, China also understood that a nuclear war is unwinnable and a nuclear arms race is pointless. Therefore, China adopted minimum (but credible) deterrence nuclear policy, and continues to uphold it till now. Moreover, ICBM countermeasures did not exist back then. Therefore, even a small number of ICBMs ensured credible deterrence. Not anymore.

The military might gives leverage when it comes to geopolitics and geo-economics.
True.

Military might; not nuclear might.

Russia has ample nuclear might, but limited leverage in world affairs.

It is more important in Pakistan case because of the nature of our state and our core national ideology. In 80s it was understandable to keep Pakistan nuke/missile program under wraps and under ambiguity. But in present day and age, to keep on following the same policy is not making much sense. With this half cup full nuke status will invite more trouble and unnecessary noise towards Pakistan from other perceived bigger nuke powers. We need to be a full fledged nuke power with ICBMs and thermo nukes in stockpile. After that, those nations who are still having issues with us, who we might perceive a bigger powers then us, can be dealt with in covert and overt means under the shadow of nuke umbrella which should cover the whole globe.
At present, Pakistan is contending with the menace of terrorism and religious fundamentalism. It is in the spotlight due to these issues.

If we stir another nuclear arms race in the region, it will create more problems for us.

We do not have sufficient geography, leverage and economy to develop and sustain full-spectrum nuclear deterrence. It is wishful thinking on your part.

We have created sufficient nuclear deterrence for regional threats, and checkmated India in this case. We should utilize our uranium and plutonium reserves for constructive purposes now. For example, develop nuclear power plants to address the issue of electricity crises.

Have faith in god, not nuclear weapons.
 
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Japan & Germany dont have Nukes. Arnt they Better than Pakistan ( & India ) ?
Tody the real Power and True Progress of a Nation lies within :

- Economy
- Science
- Living Standard of its Citizens

Germany and Japan's progress was possible only because of the US nuclear umbrella or else they would have been under the boots of Stalin.
 
You got it wrong.

China became a financial giant first, and now enhancing its military might. Persian Gulf War (1991) motivated them towards these ends.

Read the history, check when Chinese developed their ICBMs and thermo nuclear bombs. And be surprised. The idea of super power comes from the ability to wipe out the adversary completely. The conventional toys, the stealth fighters , the air craft carriers are force multipliers.

China had fought a war with the US (in Korea) and was not on friendly terms with the USSR either. It found itself in a geopolitical situation that nuclear deterrence was necessary for its survival. However, China also understood that a nuclear war is unwinnable and a nuclear arms race is pointless. Therefore, China adopted minimum (but credible) deterrence nuclear policy, and continues to uphold it till now. Moreover, ICBM countermeasures did not exist back then. Therefore, even a small number of ICBMs ensured credible deterrence. Not anymore.


School boy error. You mentioned Chinese history, but you fail to realise that we are in much dangerous situation right in the middle of the eye of the storm, the global chess board. Of all, its us who need a full fledged nuke deterrence. Who says nuclear war is winnable? Its the deterrence against close or far away enemies, in present , or future potential adversaries. If ICBM counter measures were so effective, the Russians and Chinese would have raised the white flag infront of west by now. Again school boy error. I am sure you understand the concept of MIRV!?

True.

Military might; not nuclear might.

Russia has ample nuclear might, but limited leverage in world affairs.

Isnt it ironic that five veto yielding "powers" in UN are all nuke powers? You should not be using Russia as an example specially in present geo political situation when its trampling the US/West designs in middle east without giving a second thought.


At present, Pakistan is contending with the menace of terrorism and religious fundamentalism. It is in the spotlight due to these issues.

If we stir another nuclear arms race in the region, it will create more problems for us.

We do not have sufficient geography, leverage and economy to develop and sustain full-spectrum nuclear deterrence. It is wishful thinking on your part.

We have created sufficient nuclear deterrence for regional threats, and checkmated India in this case. We should utilize our uranium and plutonium reserves for constructive purposes now. For example, develop nuclear power plants to address the issue of electricity crises.

Have faith in god, not nuclear weapons.


You are not looking at the bigger picture. The terrorism that we are facing is all forigen sponsored. Unless you draw a sword against those nations who are sponsoring terrorism, dont expect results to go according to your wishes in this war on terror. All gains will be temporary till they find new Mullah Fazullah or Khurasani.

We need to de-hyphenate ourselves from India and think globally. India is one of our several adversaries, open and disguised. Nobody asked India when they tested their ICBM. Why should we care? This half cup full nuke status, as a said, is/will invite more trouble for us and strategic miscalculations by some powers may lead to disaster which can be easily be avoided by flexing muscle now. Geopolitics is changing at rapid pace, our old school India specific strategy has lost its value long time ago.

We have the geography and technology to build effective full spectrum deterrence, a terms already used by country movers and shakers. But to have full spectrum only against India is a foolishness of highest order. When we signed on the CPEC, we have basically upset a lots of power who will leave no stone unturned to ensure that this project fail, even at the cost of Pakistan. We need to up our game.

True, we should all have faith in Allah. And what I said is in line of Allah's commandment "And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged." (8:60)

The expression used, "whom you do not know". Some of us pretend as if they dont know , some have got their head buried in the sand.
 
Cant be done until india ends its occupation of Kashmir
I really feel that has to be discussed with the local population of Kashmir, but before that we need peace in that region and then we can put pressure to really listen to their demands, but I really don't understand why that is causing problems between Pakistan and India, there are many places in the world where people are asking for a separate country, Pakistan is not fighting with those countries ....

* Is that only because they follow Islam ??
* Is that because speaking about Kashmir increase the vote bank of Pakistan political parities like Indian parties

But if we think practically there is no way either of the country is going to back off their armies from their current stand which is the first step for their demands (separate country ). I would say the first practical solution should be peace in the region (both sides of the border), then giving the control to the locally elected leaders with their local police and the armies just securing the borders.
 
Read the history, check when Chinese developed their ICBMs and thermo nuclear bombs. And be surprised. The idea of super power comes from the ability to wipe out the adversary completely. The conventional toys, the stealth fighters , the air craft carriers are force multipliers.
My friend, you cannot influence the world with your nuclear arsenal exclusively. You can do that with your economic investments, promotion of your values, game-changing inventions and power-projection capabilities*. US is reshaping the entire world to its image with the combination of the aforementioned factors.

Nuclear weapons are perceived as tools of deterrence in policy-making circles; not aggression. Why do you think that countries think twice about using even low-yield tactical nukes in the battlefield? Because of the consequences.

*Power projection encompasses both conventional and nuclear capabilities. However, conventional weapons continue to be the primary choice for power projection in conflicts, and will remain so in the future. Nuclear weapons have taken the role of deterrence.

Among the nuclear powers of the world, only the US is superpower. Others are not. Ponder over this.

School boy error. You mentioned Chinese history, but you fail to realise that we are in much dangerous situation right in the middle of the eye of the storm, the global chess board. Of all, its us who need a full fledged nuke deterrence. Who says nuclear war is winnable? Its the deterrence against close or far away enemies, in present , or future potential adversaries. If ICBM counter measures were so effective, the Russians and Chinese would have raised the white flag infront of west by now. Again school boy error. I am sure you understand the concept of MIRV!?
I explained to you the reasons for China going nuclear and its nuclear policy. No school-boy error in that. Straightforward facts. Their is another aspect of it; global anti-nuclear movement was in its infancy back then. However, situation is different now (i.e. global anti-nuclear movement is much stronger).

If we are finding ourselves in a dire situation, it is an indication that we need to deescalate. Escalation is not the solution. Unless Pakistan is perceived as a stable country, free from the menace of terrorism and extremism, the international community will not give us free-hand to expand our nuclear profile.

Besides, it is important to understand that Pakistan cannot achieve full-spectrum nuclear deterrence on its own. We still need input and materials from other states in this regard. However, even our all-weather friend (i.e. China) will not go that far.

Isnt it ironic that five veto yielding "powers" in UN are all nuke powers? You should not be using Russia as an example specially in present geo political situation when its trampling the US/West designs in middle east without giving a second thought.
Russia is trampling US/West designs in the ME? Are you kidding me?

Russia is on the defensive in its effort to defend its interests in the ME, while US is on the offensive, since early 1990s.

You are not looking at the bigger picture. The terrorism that we are facing is all forigen sponsored. Unless you draw a sword against those nations who are sponsoring terrorism, dont expect results to go according to your wishes in this war on terror. All gains will be temporary till they find new Mullah Fazullah or Khurasani.
We should stop burying our head in the sand, and recognize the EVIL within us. Blaming others is a cheap cop-out from the problems we are facing.

TTP and BLA were/are home-grown anti-state movements. BLA gained spotlight in 1970s and TTP gained spotlight in the 21st century. The entire Pakistani society needs to realize this fact first. Who are funding them, is irrelevant.

It is also important to understand that radicalization of our society is the unintended consequence of the misguided foreign policy of the former (and deceased) COAS, M. Zia-ul-Haq.

We need to de-hyphenate ourselves from India and think globally. India is one of our several adversaries, open and disguised. Nobody asked India when they tested their ICBM. Why should we care? This half cup full nuke status, as a said, is/will invite more trouble for us and strategic miscalculations by some powers may lead to disaster which can be easily be avoided by flexing muscle now. Geopolitics is changing at rapid pace, our old school India specific strategy has lost its value long time ago.
The world perceives India in a different manner than Pakistan. US, in particular, perceives India as a counter-balance to China in the region, and is sympathetic towards Indian efforts to checkmate China in the nuclear spectrum.

Since inception, India carried itself much more responsibly in geopolitical arena than Pakistan by joining the non-aligned club during Cold War, upholding its democratic norms, encouraging foreign investment, and didn't had nuclear proliferation designs.

Pakistan's right to have credible deterrence against external threats is not in question but it is not advisable to create new enemies (in official capacity) and be held responsible for fueling nuclear arms race when the global anti-nuclear movement is gaining moment. Pakistan risks becoming North Korea 2.0 with such initiatives. No sane Pakistani would want the country to be isolated and become a failed state.

We have the geography and technology to build effective full spectrum deterrence, a terms already used by country movers and shakers.
We do not.

Russia, US and China are huge countries; they have lot of space to disperse nuclear stockpiles on land. They also have enormous exposure to oceans and blue-water naval capability to make their second-strike capabilities practical. Pakistan doesn't have similar luxury in the aspect of geography and nor the naval capability.

But to have full spectrum only against India is a foolishness of highest order. When we signed on the CPEC, we have basically upset a lots of power who will leave no stone unturned to ensure that this project fail, even at the cost of Pakistan. We need to up our game.

True, we should all have faith in Allah. And what I said is in line of Allah's commandment "And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged." (8:60)

The expression used, "whom you do not know". Some of us pretend as if they dont know , some have got their head buried in the sand.
That is all good, but we need a suitable environment and lot of resources for developing full-spectrum nuclear deterrence. In our case, the environment is not conducive for it and neither we have the resources.

The example of North Korea is in front of you. A country aiming for full-spectrum deterrence under unfavorable environment. And the result is failure and isolation even with Chinese backing.

Do also keep in mind that nuclear weapons will not stop any foreign entity from sabotaging our interests and exploiting our internal weaknesses. They never did. They know that we will not use our nuclear weapons under these circumstances.

You want to deter foreign aggression and designs against us? Then develop the capability to bring war and instability to their lands. We need powerful economy and military might for the said purpose. They will provide us much greater leverage in foreign affairs and deter foreign designs in a more effective manner.
 
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My friend, you cannot influence the world with your nuclear arsenal exclusively. You can do that with your economic investments, promotion of your values, game-changing inventions and power-projection capabilities*. US is reshaping the entire world to its image with the combination of the aforementioned factors.

Nuclear weapons are perceived as tools of deterrence in policy-making circles; not aggression. Why do you think that countries think twice about using even low-yield tactical nukes in the battlefield? Because of the consequences.

*Power projection encompasses both conventional and nuclear capabilities. However, conventional weapons continue to be the primary choice for power projection in conflicts, and will remain so in the future. Nuclear weapons have taken the role of deterrence.

Among the nuclear powers of the world, only the US is superpower. Others are not. Ponder over this.


I explained to you the reasons for China going nuclear and its nuclear policy. No school-boy error in that. Straightforward facts. Their is another aspect of it; global anti-nuclear movement was in its infancy back then. However, situation is different now (i.e. global anti-nuclear movement is much stronger).

If we are finding ourselves in a dire situation, it is an indication that we need to deescalate. Escalation is not the solution. Unless Pakistan is perceived as a stable country, free from the menace of terrorism and extremism, the international community will not give us free-hand to expand our nuclear profile.

Besides, it is important to understand that Pakistan cannot achieve full-spectrum nuclear deterrence on its own. We still need input and materials from other states in this regard. However, even our all-weather friend (i.e. China) will not go that far.


Russia is trampling US/West designs in the ME? Are you kidding me?

Russia is on the defensive in its effort to defend its interests in the ME, while US is on the offensive, since early 1990s.


We should stop burying our head in the sand, and recognize the EVIL within us. Blaming others is a cheap cop-out from the problems we are facing.

TTP and BLA were/are home-grown anti-state movements. BLA gained spotlight in 1970s and TTP gained spotlight in the 21st century. The entire Pakistani society needs to realize this fact first. Who are funding them, is irrelevant.

It is also important to understand that radicalization of our society is the unintended consequence of the misguided foreign policy of the former (and deceased) COAS, M. Zia-ul-Haq.


The world perceives India in a different manner than Pakistan. US, in particular, perceives India as a counter-balance to China in the region, and is sympathetic towards Indian efforts to checkmate China in the nuclear spectrum.

Since inception, India carried itself much more responsibly in geopolitical arena than Pakistan by joining the non-aligned club during Cold War, upholding its democratic norms, encouraging foreign investment, and didn't had nuclear proliferation designs.

Pakistan's right to have credible deterrence against external threats is not in question but it is not advisable to create new enemies (in official capacity) and be held responsible for fueling nuclear arms race when the global anti-nuclear movement is gaining moment. Pakistan risks becoming North Korea 2.0 with such initiatives. No sane Pakistani would want the country to be isolated and become a failed state.


We do not.

Russia, US and China are huge countries; they have lot of space to disperse nuclear stockpiles on land. They also have enormous exposure to oceans and blue-water naval capability to make their second-strike capabilities practical. Pakistan doesn't have similar luxury in the aspect of geography and nor the naval capability.


That is all good, but we need a suitable environment and lot of resources for developing full-spectrum nuclear deterrence. In our case, the environment is not conducive for it and neither we have the resources.

The example of North Korea is in front of you. A country aiming for full-spectrum deterrence under unfavorable environment. And the result is failure and isolation even with Chinese backing.

Do also keep in mind that nuclear weapons will not stop any foreign entity from sabotaging our interests and exploiting our internal weaknesses. They never did.

Your cower and give up strategy won't work either. Pakistan didn't become a nuclear power by cowering and giving into the blackmail of other powers. It became a nuclear power because it had the will and the courage to go the extra mile. Whether you like it or not, Pakistan can owe its existence today because of her nuclear capability.

Global anti-nuclear movement? I don't know where you get your facts from, but many if not most nuclear states are till this day increasing and improving their stockpiles. That can hardly be termed a mass global anti-nuclear movement.

Having said that, Pakistan should find a balance between maintaining its nuclear capability as a minimum deterrence capability. Pakistan should by all means continue to grow its nuclear capability as long as India is on the same path. Our nukes are only aimed at one hostile state in our vicinity and the whole world knows this. We mean no harm to anyone except those that mean harm to us. Simple math.
 
Your cower and give up strategy won't work either. Pakistan didn't become a nuclear power by cowering and giving into the blackmail and threats of other powers. It became a nuclear power because it had the will and courage to do so.

Having said that, Pakistan should find a balance between maintaining its nuclear capability as a minimum deterrence capability. Pakistan should by all means continue to grow its nuclear capability as long as India is on the same path. Our nukes are only aimed at one hostile state in our vicinity and the whole world knows this.
Did I suggest that Pakistani policy-makers should adopt "cower and give-up" strategy? You insult my intelligence with your accusation.

I am an advocate of peace and prosperity but an enlightened one. I fully support the existing policy of minimum deterrence. It was in our interests and practical under the given circumstances.

My point of contention is that current geopolitical environment is not conducive and neither we have the resources and arrangements to develop full-spectrum nuclear deterrence. I am being realistic.
 

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