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Who are World's Top 10 Largest Creditor Nations?

But honestly I don't think Trump will be elected due to most people in USA pay more attention to Trump's pussygate other than their national corruption, unemployment and debt problem. I remember one US judge used to say Trump is politically incorrect, but Hillary is politically corrupted. For me, USA is beyond help now.

I fully agree. It is incredible to watch the character assassination. It appears that US state-friendly media treats its own just as it treats others when it comes to challenges to their very interests. NYT helped assassinate Qaddafi literally, and now is helping assassinate Trump figuratively. Little difference in terms of practicality.

This also gives us further clue about the capabilities of US regime media. They can actually determine elections, given how even Fox News is now sidelined as sort of a fringe media. It is incredible.

The US is now no more appealing or exceptional than a third world crippled democracy.

It is just one of many failing polities.
 
Did you even read what you posted in your link? From Time.com one of those "mainstream media"?



Moody’s Analytics provides a sort of middle ground by creating a per-country debt threshold using a concept called “fiscal space.” In this framework, each country is assigned a debt-to-GDP limit - based on its economic growth forecast, interest rates, and other factors - beyond which point the nation “will default unless policymakers take unprecedented steps.”

The U.S. ranks somewhere in the middle of the fiscal space picture at 165, with 41 debt-to-GDP points to spare before we enter the caution zone.


It says US ranks somewhere in the middle of this so-called "fiscal space" picture, a concept entirely created by "Moody's Analytics" out of thin air, a term completely non-existent in central banks, IMF or World Bank. And you use this as your argument? What did Moody say about sub-prime before 2008?


No, I was referring to debt to gdp ratio, i even wrote it right there, you seemed to have passed over the words.
http://www.cmegroup.com/education/images/articles/art-euro-zone-2015-figure-5-720x500.jpg

Here is a primer, it isn't a creation of Moody's it's a standard accepted measurement of financial health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio

http://www.cmegroup.com/education/images/articles/art-euro-zone-2015-figure-5-720x500.jpg[/QUOTE]​
Come back to cold hard reality, US National Debt as of 10/12/2016 is US$ 19,688,681,856,198.07, unprecendented in mankind history, surpasses annual GDP, you call it "middle of the pack"?

This mounting National Debt of US government is the key driver for the nation to become the largest debtor on this planet, second to none, now at an international position of -$8.0428 trillion, and still sinking at a break-neck speed of $1.8 trillion per year, is it "middle of the pack"? Where is the end?


The size of the American economy is unprecedented in Mankind's history. What's your point? You see a big number and get wowed by it without comparing it to relevent data.

It's an issue that should be kept track of, but it's not particularly urgent, especially not compared to the effects of climate change.
 
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I don't think both Trump or Clinton's policy can solve the national debt problem, since Hillary wants to tax the rich and further increase the spending, while Trump wants to reduce the taxes. However, Trump also wants to reduce military spending by forcing their vassal to pay the full cost for protection. Hopefully Trump will eventually decide to relocate all their military base back to USA, since their bases cost a great deal of money. But honestly I don't think Trump will be elected due to most people in USA pay more attention to Trump's pussygate other than their national corruption, unemployment and debt problem. I remember one US judge used to say Trump is politically incorrect, but Hillary is politically corrupted. For me, USA is beyond help now.

no live deity can save the US from further debt.
 
no live deity can save the US from further debt.
I heard somebody said that the only way USA can get away with their debt problem is to start a war with China to erase all the debt China own, but I think this is suicide. I think the better way they can do for their debt problem that is like TaiShang suggest, reduce spending and shift military spending, especially corrupt gift money, to more civilian spending and their domestic infrastructure upgrade. This alone won't solve their debt problem, but at least the money use in good way and delay their ultimate fail.

This also gives us further clue about the capabilities of US regime media. They can actually determine elections, given how even Fox News is now sidelined as sort of a fringe media. It is incredible.

The US is now no more appealing or exceptional than a third world crippled democracy
I'm agree, what more sad that is people in USA have full access to information, where they can bypass those mainstream Media to seek the truth, but instead many of them chose to follow the Media; they chose sentiment other than rational; they chose a obvious smear tactic other than real problems that are happening in their country. My conclusion is a country that have 19 trillion debt said a lots of thing about that country and his people.
 
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I heard somebody said that the only way USA can get away with their debt problem is to start a war with China to erase all the debt China own, but I think this is suicide. I think the better way they can do for their debt problem that is like TaiShang suggest, reduce spending and shift military spending, especially corrupt gift money, to more civilian spending and their domestic infrastructure upgrade. This alone won't solve their debt problem, but at least the money use in good way and delay their ultimate fail.


I'm agree, what more sad that is people in USA have full access to information, where they can bypass those mainstream Media to seek the truth, but instead many of them chose to follow the Media; they chose sentiment other than rational; they chose a obvious smear tactic other than real problems that are happening in their country. My conclusion is a country that have 19 trillion debt said a lots of thing about that country and his people.
A war with China mean the end if US empire. They won't do it.
 
No, I was referring to debt to gdp ratio, i even wrote it right there, you seemed to have passed over the words.

Here is a primer, it isn't a creation of Moody's it's a standard accepted measurement of financial health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio

http://www.cmegroup.com/education/images/articles/art-euro-zone-2015-figure-5-720x500.jpg


You did claim "Debt-to-GDP ratio" as being "middle of the pack", and you did quote the Time.com link to support it, didn't you? But the link gauged US as "middle of the pack" using a Moody-created "fiscal space" term, NOT "Debt-to-GDP ratio", did it not?

http://time.com/4214269/us-national-debt/

Moody’s Analytics provides a sort of middle ground by creating a per-country debt threshold using a concept called "fiscal space". In this framework, each country is assigned a debt-to-GDP limit - based on its economic growth forecast, interest rates, and other factors - beyond which point the nation “will default unless policymakers take unprecedented steps.”

The U.S. ranks somewhere in the middle of the fiscal space picture at 165, with 41 debt-to-GDP points to spare before we enter the caution zone."

The size of the American economy is unprecedented in Mankind's history. What's your point? You see a big number and get wowed by it without comparing it to relevent data.

It's an issue that should be kept track of, but it's not particularly urgent, especially not compared to the effects of climate change.


Economy = GDP? Who said that?
  • GDP is just a one of many compiled statistics to estimate approximate size of economic activities within nation's border, you know its formula and limitations, don't you? GDP stats of America are exceptionally big, because GDP measures heavy on consumption and government expenditure. Yes, we are witnessing unprecedented level of consumption, and government expenditure.
  • Remember after the financial crisis, Timothy Geithner came to Beijing and pledged on fiscal discipline? Now by Oct 2016, the national debt has further sunken to $19.6 trillion, the main driver for US becoming the largest creditor nation in the world. My question is: Where is US fiscal discipline?

Size, that's the EXACT reason that why US can't pile up debts forever, which creditors on planet earth can feed such a gigantic amount of debts?
  • Germany (world's 3rd largest creditor nation after Greater China, Japan) can feed PIIGS debts, single-handedly, because those aren't big in absolute amounts.
  • But who can feed mounting US debts? Japan, Greater China, KSA-GCC, or all of them combined?
The U.S. net international investment position at the end of the second quarter of 2016 was -$8,042.8 billion (preliminary), according to statistics released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). The net investment position at the end of the first quarter was -$7,582.0 billion (revised). The net position decreased $460.8 billion or 6.1 percent in the second quarter, compared with a decrease of 4.1 percent in the first quarter. As this accelerated rate, US international position is sinking at a break-neck speed of $1.8 trillion per year.
http://bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/intinvnewsrelease.htm

 
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I heard somebody said that the only way USA can get away with their debt problem is to start a war with China to erase all the debt China own, but I think this is suicide. I think the better way they can do for their debt problem that is like TaiShang suggest, reduce spending and shift military spending, especially corrupt gift money, to more civilian spending and their domestic infrastructure upgrade. This alone won't solve their debt problem, but at least the money use in good way and delay their ultimate fail.


I'm agree, what more sad that is people in USA have full access to information, where they can bypass those mainstream Media to seek the truth, but instead many of them chose to follow the Media; they chose sentiment other than rational; they chose a obvious smear tactic other than real problems that are happening in their country. My conclusion is a country that have 19 trillion debt said a lots of thing about that country and his people.


Well said. Let's look at the global picture in number, here are the G10 of creditor economies:
  1. JAPAN: US$ +3.41896 trillion
  2. GERMANY: US$ +1.718391 trillion
  3. CHINA (Mainland): US$ +1.6636 trillion
  4. HONG KONG: US$ +1.1114652 trillion
  5. TAIWAN: US$ +1.053905 trillion (**data from end of 2015)
  6. SWITZERLAND: US$ +764.57 billion
  7. NORWAY: US$ +728.202 billion
  8. NETHERLANDS: US$ +583.5015 billion
  9. SINGAPORE: US$ +577.399 billion
  10. SAUDI ARABIA: US$ +572 billion
Within Euro Zone, despite Germany (together with Germanic/Nordic states) are creditors, they have to feed debts of other two-third member nations, the Euro Zone as a whole (US$ -978,909 billion) is slightly indebted.
Going worldwide, US is the largest debtor (US$ -8.0428 trillion, and sinking at a speed $1.8 trillion per year), this alone can consume credits hold by Japan, Greater China and KSA combined, who on earth can cover this ever-expanding black-hole?

 
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One month ago, when we last looked at the Fed’s update of Treasuries held in custody, we noted something troubling: the number dropped sharply, declining by over $27.5 billion in one week, the biggest weekly drop since January 2015, pushing the total amount of custodial paper to $2.83 trillion, the lowest since 2012. One month later, we refresh this chart and find that in the latest weekly update, foreign central banks continued their relentless liquidation of US paper held in the Fed’s custody account, which tumbled by another $22.3 billion in the past week, pushing the total amount of custodial paper to $2.805 trillion, another fresh post-2012 low.

Then today, in addition to the Fed’s custody data, we also got the latest monthly Treasury International Capital data, which showed that the troubling trend presented last one month ago, has accelerated. Recall that a month ago, we reported that in the latest 12 months we have observed a not so stealthy, in fact quite massive $343 billion in Treasury selling by foreign central banks in the period July 2015 – July 2016, something truly unprecedented in size and scope.

Fast forward to today when in the latest monthly update, that of July, we find that what until a month ago was “merely” a record $343 billion in offshore central bank sales in the LTM period ending July 30, one month later this number has risen to a new all time high $346.4 billion, or well over a third of a trillion in Treasuries sold in the past 12 months.



Among the biggest sellers – on a market-price basis – not surprisingly was China, which in July “sold” $34 billion in US paper (the actual underlying number while different, as this particular series is adjusted for Mark to Market variations, will be similar), the biggest monthly dump going back to 2012, and bringing its total to $1.185 trillion, the lowest total since 2012.


It wasn’t just China: Saudi Arabia also continued to sell its TSY holdings, and in August its stated holdings (which again have to be adjusted for MTM), dropped from $96.5BN to $93Bn, the lowest since the summer of 2014.



As we pointed out one month ago, what is becoming increasingly obvious is that both foreign central banks, sovereign wealth funds, reserve managers, and virtually every other official institution in possession of US paper, is liquidating their holdings at a very troubling pace. In some cases, like China, this is to offset devaluation pressure; in others such as Saudi Arabia, it is to provide the funds needed to offset the collapse of the petrodollar, and to backstop the country’s soaring budget deficit.

So who are they selling to? The answer, at least for now, is private demand, in other words just like in the stock market the retail investor is the final bagholder, so when it comes to US Treasuries, “private investors” both foreign and domestic are soaking up hundreds of billions in central bank holdings. We wonder if they would do that knowing who is selling to them.

Meanwhile, while just two months ago yields had tumbled to near all time lows, suddenly the picture is inverted, and long-yields are suddenly surging on concerns the BOJ, the Fed, and maybe even the ECB will soon taper their purchases of the long end.

What happens if in addition to the relentless selling from foreign official institutions, private sellers also declare a buyer’s strike. The answer? More Fed monetization of US debt will be the most likely outcome, aka more QE. We bring this up because, amusingly, the Fed is still harboring some naive hope it can/will raise rates in the coming week and/or months.


http://247wallst.com/investing/2016...s-liquidate-a-record-346-billion-in-us-paper/
 
One month ago, when we last looked at the Fed’s update of Treasuries held in custody, we noted something troubling: the number dropped sharply, declining by over $27.5 billion in one week, the biggest weekly drop since January 2015, pushing the total amount of custodial paper to $2.83 trillion, the lowest since 2012. One month later, we refresh this chart and find that in the latest weekly update, foreign central banks continued their relentless liquidation of US paper held in the Fed’s custody account, which tumbled by another $22.3 billion in the past week, pushing the total amount of custodial paper to $2.805 trillion, another fresh post-2012 low.

Then today, in addition to the Fed’s custody data, we also got the latest monthly Treasury International Capital data, which showed that the troubling trend presented last one month ago, has accelerated. Recall that a month ago, we reported that in the latest 12 months we have observed a not so stealthy, in fact quite massive $343 billion in Treasury selling by foreign central banks in the period July 2015 – July 2016, something truly unprecedented in size and scope.

Fast forward to today when in the latest monthly update, that of July, we find that what until a month ago was “merely” a record $343 billion in offshore central bank sales in the LTM period ending July 30, one month later this number has risen to a new all time high $346.4 billion, or well over a third of a trillion in Treasuries sold in the past 12 months.



Among the biggest sellers – on a market-price basis – not surprisingly was China, which in July “sold” $34 billion in US paper (the actual underlying number while different, as this particular series is adjusted for Mark to Market variations, will be similar), the biggest monthly dump going back to 2012, and bringing its total to $1.185 trillion, the lowest total since 2012.


It wasn’t just China: Saudi Arabia also continued to sell its TSY holdings, and in August its stated holdings (which again have to be adjusted for MTM), dropped from $96.5BN to $93Bn, the lowest since the summer of 2014.



As we pointed out one month ago, what is becoming increasingly obvious is that both foreign central banks, sovereign wealth funds, reserve managers, and virtually every other official institution in possession of US paper, is liquidating their holdings at a very troubling pace. In some cases, like China, this is to offset devaluation pressure; in others such as Saudi Arabia, it is to provide the funds needed to offset the collapse of the petrodollar, and to backstop the country’s soaring budget deficit.

So who are they selling to? The answer, at least for now, is private demand, in other words just like in the stock market the retail investor is the final bagholder, so when it comes to US Treasuries, “private investors” both foreign and domestic are soaking up hundreds of billions in central bank holdings. We wonder if they would do that knowing who is selling to them.

Meanwhile, while just two months ago yields had tumbled to near all time lows, suddenly the picture is inverted, and long-yields are suddenly surging on concerns the BOJ, the Fed, and maybe even the ECB will soon taper their purchases of the long end.

What happens if in addition to the relentless selling from foreign official institutions, private sellers also declare a buyer’s strike. The answer? More Fed monetization of US debt will be the most likely outcome, aka more QE. We bring this up because, amusingly, the Fed is still harboring some naive hope it can/will raise rates in the coming week and/or months.


http://247wallst.com/investing/2016...s-liquidate-a-record-346-billion-in-us-paper/


Oct 27, 2016 @ 09:42 AMhttp://bit.ly/29fF72b
Forbes: The Debt Crisis Isn't Coming -- It's Here

815aad2b1ed56fc2c972f68b4681ddd2.jpeg
Doug Schoen , Contributor

There are a number of topics that have largely been glossed over this election cycle, but perhaps none more so than our mounting debt.

We’re currently facing a $19 trillion national debt, which has doubled since Obama took office. And that doesn’t even take into account the strain our entitlement programs – namely Social Security and Medicare – put on the fiscal health of the country.

Fox News’ Chris Wallace did his highlight this issue at last week’s final presidential debate. He posed the following to both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump: “The one last area that I want to get into with you in this debate is the fact that the biggest driver of our debt is entitlements, which is 60 percent of all federal spending. Now the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget has looked at both of your plans and they say neither of you has a serious plan that is going to solve the fact that Medicare is going to run out of money in the 2020s, Social Security is going to run out of money in the 2030s, and at that time recipients are going to take huge cuts in their benefits.”

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Democratic presidential nominee former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton shakes hands with Fox News anchor and moderator Chris Wallace as Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump (R) looks on after the third U.S. presidential debate. (Credit: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

Both candidates struggled with the question, even though they knew it was coming.

Trump offered that we won’t even have to worry about the debt because his presidency will bring 5% or 6% growth (he had previously promised 4%, a rate of growth economists largely agreed wasn’t achievable). And that about covered it. His tax plan has been appraised at adding over $5 trillion to the debt and without any intention of cutting entitlement programs, we can be sure that Trump has no real intention of tackling the debt.​

For her part, Clinton also offered a non-answer (though more realistic than Trump’s). She repeatedly insisted that her proposals would not “add a penny to the debt” – a nice tagline, to be sure. But even the most conservative estimates find that Clinton’s proposals would add $200 billion to the debt, a far from Trump’s $5.3 trillion but an addition nevertheless. She also discussed her plan to expand Social Security and Medicare by making it available to Americans at 55 years old. How will we pay? Higher taxes, of course.​

And though I have been a lifelong Democrat and strong supporter of the social safety net – as I continue to be – it’s critical that we get serious about reining in these entitlement programs before we find ourselves hanging over the edge of that fiscal cliff we talk about all the time.

Means testing is an obvious place to start. Though Americans have been paying into the system, it doesn’t mean that they all need these programs or that they wouldn’t be willing to give them up for the greater good. In the past, my firm did polling on this issue and found Americans are prepared for both entitlement reform and perhaps even higher taxes. They were in favor of limiting tax deductions and sacrificing some of their Medicare and Social Security benefits to ensure that we can balance the budget and reduce our debt and deficit.

And there’s no reason that we shouldn’t be raising the Social Security retirement age. Americans are living longer, healthier lives. And for those with legitimate reason that the extra one or two years until retirement poses serious challenges for them – most likely those working in physically demanding jobs – we can develop a system of early retirement benefits for those that can’t work.

We also need to be more focused on efficiency, transparency and savings in these programs. There are examples of programs that do work like Medicare Part D, which delivers prescription drugs to over 30 million American seniors. The program enjoys upwards of an 85% approval rating in surveys and comes in under budget projections – something you never hear about an entitlement program.

With less than two weeks to go until the election, we aren’t in for a sudden serious discussion of the nation’s debt. Chris Wallace did what he could, but it sits on the shoulders of the next president to take this problem seriously. It’s never popular politics to cut entitlements, but Americans are far more willing to do it than politicians think. Time to pay attention to the public and get our fiscal house in order.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougschoen/2016/10/27/the-debt-crisis-isnt-coming-its-here/#1078c4691e99
 
no live deity can save the US from further debt.


Only three fiscal options:
  1. Cut discretionary expenditure, defence-related (DoD, NSA, CIA, etc) expenditure.
  2. Cut entitlements (social security, medicare)
  3. Raise tax.
Since option 1 is out of the question, I don't think any "mainstream" media dares to even mention it, any administration dares to touch this agenda. So instead of blaming China (and five other nations, they even add Switzerland to the list), I wish during next administration Americans will pay more tax to the government and accept less entitlements, just as Doug Schoen said (see above), in order to slow down public debt sinking, at least keep its ratio to GDP steady.

 
...who on earth can cover this ever-expanding black-hole?

FED, for instance. There is no effective debt limit for the United States. They simply can print money as much as they want because of the outstanding position of the USD in the world economic & financial system. It is true that China is a big creditor nation but we must also remember that China lives in her own big debt bubble.

And here you see the difference between USA & China. Americans can fire up the printing press to finance the government in case of an immediate crisis. Peking does not have this option.

All in all, you are definitly not in a better position than the United States.
 
FED, for instance. There is no effective debt limit for the United States. They simply can print money as much as they want because of the outstanding position of the USD in the world economic & financial system.


If US can't balance her fiscals, let deficits sustain, what can they do? You are right, monetary policy (aka printing) is the way to go.

Will they do it? Likely you are right again, that's what exactly will happen.

Did you say "no effective debt limit"? Well ... I don't know, I hope so, seriously.

It is true that China is a big creditor nation but we must also remember that China lives in her own big debt bubble.

All in all, you are definitly not in a better position than the United States.


Perhaps you read that from "mainstream media", meaning domestic credit market, how does that relate to inter-national (cross-border) positions? Anyway if you insist, let's check shall we, domestic credit to private sector, as percentage of GDP, US 190.4% vs China 155.3%, so you tell me?

Moreover, domestic credits are backed by domestic savings rate, as percentage of GDP, US only 19.1% vs China as high as 47.9%, you suggest China go into ZIRP (zero interests rate policy) or NIRP (negative)?


http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FS.AST.PRVT.GD.ZS
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2260rank.html
 
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Correct if wrong:

With the US/China trade deficit, Yuan was in high demand, low supply. Dollar was in low demand high supply, so China central bank printed more currency increasing Yuan supply to keep it's currency artificially low. China was also buying Dollars with Yuan, which they then used to buy Treasuries effectively loaning US with credit.

How Did China Become One of America's Biggest Bankers?

China is more than happy to own close to a third of the U.S. debt. Owning U.S. Treasury notes helps China's economy grow by keeping its currency weaker than the dollar. That keeps Chinese exports cheaper than U.S. products.

China's highest priority is to create enough jobs for its 1.4 billion people.

The United States allowed China to become one of its biggest bankers because the American people enjoyed low consumer prices. Selling debt to China allows the U.S. economy to grow by funding federal government programs. It also keeps U.S. interest rates low. But China's ownership of U.S. debt is shifting the economic balance of power in its favor.

What Would Happen If China Called in Its Debt Holdings?
China would not call in its debt all at once. If it did so, the demand for the dollar would plummet like a rock. This dollar collapse would disrupt international markets worse than the 2008 financial crisis. China's economy would suffer along with everyone else's.

It's more likely that China would slowly begin selling off its Treasury holdings. Even when it just warns that it plans to do so, dollar demand starts to drop. That hurts China's competitiveness, as it raises its export prices, so U.S. consumers start buying U.S.-made products instead. China must further expand its exports to other Asian countries and increase domestic demand. Only then can it call in its U.S. debt holdings.

China's Debt-Holder Strategy Is Working
Because of its ability to ship low-priced goods, China's economy grew 10% annually for the three decades before the recession. Now it's growing at 7%, a more sustainable rate. China has become the largest economy in the world. It's outpaced the United States and the European Union. China became the world's biggest exporter in 2010. China needs this growth to raise its low standard of living. Therefore, despite its threats, China will continue its position as the world's largest holder of U.S. debt.

The above shows that China has to keep loaning and buying treasuries to keep Yuan devalued, or they can inflate slowly to not cause crashing of the Dollar, otherwise all their Dollar holdings would become worthless.

This currency manipulation was on going for decades right. Hu Jintao was giving cheap credit during 2008 financial crisis.
Seems to me China has played a long term master plan in finance, I hope this cancels out the BS Rothschild conspiracy because unlike the privately owned FED, China's central bank is state owned like Vietnams.
 
Only three fiscal options:
  1. Cut discretionary expenditure, defence-related (DoD, NSA, CIA, etc) expenditure.
  2. Cut entitlements (social security, medicare)
  3. Raise tax.
Since option 1 is out of the question, I don't think any "mainstream" media dares to even mention it, any administration dares to touch this agenda. So instead of blaming China (and five other nations, they even add Switzerland to the list), I wish during next administration Americans will pay more tax to the government and accept less entitlements, just as Doug Schoen said (see above), in order to slow down public debt sinking, at least keep its ratio to GDP steady.

will be three. they been doing it for decades.
 

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