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When Innovation, Too, Is Made in China

My friend, I think you might have read one too many anti china propagandas, :-) this idea that 1.3 billion people are just like simple minded "automators", with a master government head pulling everyone's strings :-), it would make a great film though! I suggest you go to china to take a look and see if they all "think similar" :D. And btw unlile the impression you may get from this forum, they won't be at your throats like a sworn enemy just because you are from India.

Mate, this is not only applicable to China, but pretty much to any country. When most people are raised with similar kind thinking by history, culture and education system, you have monotonous system.

By the way, I know that Chinese won’t be at my throat just because I am from India, because one of my best friend in from HK
 
^^ Your blindly insisting that innovations are not tech advancements is highly subjective, or crap, to put it bluntly.

One of the key measurements, if not the key one, of innovation is, by its very definition, the overall patents a country produces, recognised by worldwide science community with little ambiguousity.

Whereas the quality of patents might vary ( I am sure a unique way of how one supposes to make a sofabed doesn't go very far in int'l patent offices), empirical evidences of the recent past suggest that the country which holds the most int'l patents has always stood at the forefront of worldwide technological powess and been the origin of the most Nobel Laureates in sciences.

Why don't you go look up the current standing of China's int'l patents (ICT) and the sheer growth rates for the last 10 years, alongwith the prudent projection by the industrial experts for its immiediate future (say the coming 3 years) vis-á-vis the US ?

As a side note, we all know that 5th gen fights require highly sophisticated RAM - material science. Though not all material science patents having millitary implications for the 5th gen, China produced the most peer-reviewed scientific papers on Material Science in the world last year and overall produced almost the most worldwide patents in Material Science during the recent years... food for thought.

Simple, what you are saying in not innovation.
 
1 area which you know of... And I don't know how useless it is.... Russians have a wide variety of civilian airliner aircraft... Their engine efficiency was behind the West.... but you can bet it is better than anything Chinese will put up in near future (if they do finally put a civil aircraft up soon that is)... you cannot simply fly over decades of experience and knowledge which Russians and western world have learned by making mistakes and ironing them over all these years.. you cannot simply get ironed out efficient and reliable technology without putting in so many years of research and experience...



That does not mean that a country lacks technological knowledge... India makes that list also but I won't say that it is because we have superior medical and chemical knowledge than Russia... actually though medicine is a worldwide field and that just shows which country has acquired wider medical markets.. India and China have such a huge population so they will obviously make the list... Russia has traditionally never been export oriented in medical they have an excellent system which caters to their comparatively small population and that is what matters no?



You are comparing an already developed country which has made those bridges.. rails.. and civil infrastructure back in the 50s when our countries didn't even know how to build scooter engines.. obviously infrastructure will be newer because it is coming 60 years after the Russians... hell.. even the Indian metro systems are far newer and more advanced than American subway/metro system.. does that mean technology edge?? noo... it means America built up its infrastructure half a century ago so obviously it will be older...



so you think China producing more lightbulbs than Russia means you have more technology edge??

lets cut the chest beating my brother and get back down to reality...

China has achieved A LOT!!! Its achievements deserve to be acknowledged.. it has come from thirdworld country to almost first world in very short time... it has grown by leaps and bounds... but to say that you are superior to countries who have gathered so much experience and nurtured their technological fields for more than half a century.. than you are stretching things too much...

Do you even know what optronics and LEDs are... you think they're limited to light bulbs?

LED display manufacturers - Google ËÑË÷

i specifically wrote "LED display" so that the lightbulbs get filtered out. it shows even more dominance. What specific area of optronics are we talking about? LED, OLED, liquid crystals, quantum dots, plasma? in which of these specific areas is Russia better than China? My cousin has actually assembled cell phones before and even built his own from spare parts, he has never heard of a single display from Russia but plenty of displays are from China. Lasers? China leads the world in laser technology by 15 years. Laser welding is so routine in china even tiny noname companies can provide top of the line laser welding equipment:

http://www.laser.hc360.com/

Also, when you think Russia has "done its infrastructure", that's totally stupid and wrong, a typical sign of a low IQ to not consider all possibilities. Japan and Germany ALSO have "done their infrastructures" 50 years ago but they were FAR ahead of Russia in trains, so what is the excuse? they now lag far behind China in the aspect of high speed trains, with their trains running at least 25% slower.

What a joke that you think that heavy industry depends on being at an early stage of development. Africa is also at an early stage of development, where is their heavy industry? Why does India have to import its machine tools from China? Why does Russia have to shamefully import construction equipment while China doesn't? Why is Russia not a top leading shipbuilder and China is? Shanghai Shipyards makes billions USD per year building ships with 100,000 tons, larger than carriers, you think it is because of technical reasons we don't make carriers? you think we can't make 30 year old Russian carriers with half the displacement?

Chemicals, what a joke, if it was all about population then why is Germany's BASF far bigger than the rest? in what aspect of Chemistry is Russia superior to China? Life sciences reagents, materials, processing, instrumentation, catalysts? Number of articles published?

I hate talking with uneducated people, even Gambit talks with some facts, you don't know sh*t about chemistry, materials or manufacturing.
 
Mate, this is not only applicable to China, but pretty much to any country. When most people are raised with similar kind thinking by history, culture and education system, you have monotonous system.
Indicating that any one country doesn't have sub-cultures and regional history. And although the education system may be standardized, the teachers and professors still make it unique for each student.
 
1 area which you know of... And I don't know how useless it is.... Russians have a wide variety of civilian airliner aircraft... Their engine efficiency was behind the West.... but you can bet it is better than anything Chinese will put up in near future (if they do finally put a civil aircraft up soon that is)... you cannot simply fly over decades of experience and knowledge which Russians and western world have learned by making mistakes and ironing them over all these years.. you cannot simply get ironed out efficient and reliable technology without putting in so many years of research and experience...
Well, it's easy to gain confidence compared with chinese aviation. :lol: but i think russian aviation is rest in yesterday's laureate. I know Iran, North Korea, and some former soviet union republics are using Tu154 today. but can you name a single modern russian plane succeed to obtain international certificate of airworthiness and have a standing in international market today? though Brazil doesn't produce fighter and bomber, it has a very successful civilian avation company - Embraer. i saw lots of them in the US. it's alot ahead of China and Russia.

China's first attempt of jet jumbo is Y-10 in 1980s, which is in the same level with Boeing 707. Now they have successfully developd ARJ21 in a effort to compete with Bombardier and Embraer. ARJ21 has already received many orders. A bigger jet jumbo C919 is about to debut in years, its aim to compete with A320.do you care to tell us the development of russian civilian aviation industry? we will be glad to hear that.

That does not mean that a country lacks technological knowledge... India makes that list also but I won't say that it is because we have superior medical and chemical knowledge than Russia... actually though medicine is a worldwide field and that just shows which country has acquired wider medical markets.. India and China have such a huge population so they will obviously make the list... Russia has traditionally never been export oriented in medical they have an excellent system which caters to their comparatively small population and that is what matters no?

I don't think it has anything to do with population. Japan is extremely strong in both steel and chemistry yet its population is smaller than Russia. chemstry used to be cornerstone of singaporean economy yet it is a small country with a population of 4 million. there is no evidence at the point that you have superior chemistry knowledge, but it is obvious your product is not competitive on international market.

You are comparing an already developed country which has made those bridges.. rails.. and civil infrastructure back in the 50s when our countries didn't even know how to build scooter engines..
though it's not too far from the status of china's industry in the 1950s, still want to tell you china built the the first automobile in 1921 and steam gunship in late 19th century. Yes, South Korea don't know how to build scooter engines in 1950s, now it's leading car and ship maker in the world. Singapore gain independence in 1968 as a third world country, now its richer than most developed country,and rank the 1st in the world in terms of competitiveness index 2010.


obviously infrastructure will be newer because it is coming 60 years after the Russians... hell.. even the Indian metro systems are far newer and more advanced than American subway/metro system.. does that mean technology edge?? noo... it means America built up its infrastructure half a century ago so obviously it will be older...
their broken metro system in the US does reflect the problem of their country particulary in their state of mind. they paid little attention to public transportation due to the lobby activities of oil and auto gaints. Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore do have good subway system nothing worse than inida. Even the national highway system which US is proud of will be beaten by china. Self-satisfaction is the one way ticket to decline.l


so you think China producing more lightbulbs than Russia means you have more technology edge??

lets cut the chest beating my brother and get back down to reality...
China has achieved A LOT!!! Its achievements deserve to be acknowledged.. it has come from thirdworld country to almost first world in very short time..
thanks for your compliment, china is not a "almost-first world' country, but a developing one. I am not a hater of russia but i am just stating a fact your civilian industry is behind your neighbours in east asia. your product has a deplorable lack of competitiveness on int'l market. the only russian product i have seen in my lifetime is a GAZ car in my father's company 20 years ago. i heard it is still under production in russia. it appearance keep unchanged for 40 years.
 
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I guess you could, as long as you also credited the Chinese for the various phones they build for US brands that don't have these bugs.

As a point of fact, much of the design (not just manufacturing) by top tier US labels, is now outsourced. You may have heard of the term, "ODM". As an example, I believe close to 85% of PC Laptops (including Dell, HP etc.) are ODM'd and designed outside the US.
Sure...In that case, not only US but Europe can lay the blame for just about most of technology's flaws, inadequacies, and failures at China's feet...:lol:...Apple does not design their stuff. That is an astounding argument...:rolleyes:

Original design manufacturer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An original design manufacturer (ODM) is a company which designs and manufactures a product which is specified and eventually branded by another firm for sale. Such companies allow the brand firm to produce (either as a supplement or solely) without having to engage in the organization or running of a factory.
The ODM argument for crediting China with anything is valid only if the hardware and the technology has reached a 'commodity' or 'high volume' status.

Original Design Manufacturer (ODM) Definition, Analysis, Competitors, Research - iSuppli
An ODM does not typically manufacture electronics products for low volume, high mix niche product categories – medical, industrial, aerospace, defense.

Original Design Manufacturers assemble electronics systems primarily in high volume markets including notebook computers, handsets, LCD televisions, entry-level networking gear and multi-media devices (MP3 player).
Your PC's motherboard is an example of an ODM product. The motherboard as a technology has reached a point where innovations are no longer profitable. The technology has no more secrets to hold over any competitor so it make no financial sense for HP or Dell to have no more than a QA department to verify if their contractors are manufacturing as specified. An example of an ODM 'design' is when Biostar has a motherboard with both AGP and PCIE graphics interfaces, but the AGP and PCIE technologies are commodity technologies.

The iPhone or iPad, on the other hand, have not yet reached that 'commodity' status. People are still struggling to design their own competing vehicles. Foxconn will serve as Apple's manufacturing arm, not its R/D dept.
 
i doubt many of the people that acclaim US "high tech" actually knows what high tech is.

the iPhone, for example, is not actually an Apple product.

It is a Foxxconn product.

Apple does 2 things: specifications and marketing.
Foxxconn takes care of everything else: design to meed the specifications, procurement of parts, assembly, packaging, shipping.

If you give out specs and then sell the product, that's not actually your product.


The exact same iPhone, but with a different logo, can be shipped to another company, but the consumer won't know that, they just know apple vs. no name phone. That's why I always buy no name pirated phones, they're cheap and get the job done almost as well as an actual iPhone (the iPhone is actually better since Apple rejects bad phones while no name pirate phones just take everything, but it's not "good enough" to spend 10x the money on, i can just buy 10 no name pirate phones and maybe 1 will break).

The same thing for facebook. The code of facebook is not complicated. It also stole ideas from blog sites like QQzone (out in 2003, earlier than Facebook's 2004), MySpace and Xanga. It's just fancy packaging and spin. The actual quality and innovation of american products is laughable compared to Japanese ones.

I saw you insult somebody and call him uneducated. Not cool!
Anyway, here's something for you to read:
Highlight: China's input in the IPhone is only manual labor and assembly.
Total Chinese value addition to the final IPhone cost is only 3.6%

Tech Supply Chain Exposes Limits of Trade Metrics - WSJ.com

BEIJING—One widely touted solution for current U.S. economic woes is for America to come up with more of the high-tech gadgets that the rest of the world craves.

Yet two academic researchers estimate that Apple Inc.'s iPhone—one of the best-selling U.S. technology products—actually added $1.9 billion to the U.S. trade deficit with China last year.
How is this possible? The researchers say traditional ways of measuring global trade produce the number but fail to reflect the complexities of global commerce where the design, manufacturing and assembly of products often involve several countries.
"A distorted picture" is the result, they say, one that exaggerates trade imbalances between nations.
Trade statistics in both countries consider the iPhone a Chinese export to the U.S., even though it is entirely designed and owned by a U.S. company, and is made largely of parts produced in several Asian and European countries. China's contribution is the last step—assembling and shipping the phones.
So the entire $178.96 estimated wholesale cost of the shipped phone is credited to China, even though the value of the work performed by the Chinese workers at Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. accounts for just 3.6%, or $6.50, of the total, the researchers calculated in a report published this month.
A spokeswoman for Apple said the company declined to comment on the research.

Two academic researchers have found that Apple's iPhone actually added $1.9 billion to the U.S. trade deficit with China last year.

The result is that according to official statistics, "even high-tech products invented by U.S. companies will not increase U.S. exports," write Yuqing Xing and Neal Detert, two researchers at the Asian Development Bank Institute, a think tank in Tokyo, in their report.
This isn't a problem with high-tech products, but with how exports and imports are measured, they say.
The research adds to a growing debate about traditional trade statistics that could have real-world consequences. Conventional trade figures are the basis for political battles waging in Washington and Brussels over what to do about China's currency policies and its allegedly unfair trading practices.
"What we call 'Made in China' is indeed assembled in China, but what makes up the commercial value of the product comes from the numerous countries," Pascal Lamy, the director-general of the World Trade Organization, said in a speech in October. "The concept of country of origin for manufactured goods has gradually become obsolete."
Mr. Lamy said if trade statistics were adjusted to reflect the actual value contributed to a product by different countries, the size of the U.S. trade deficit with China—$226.88 billion, according to U.S. figures—would be cut in half.
To correct for that bias is difficult because it requires detailed knowledge of how products are put together.

Breaking down imports and exports in terms of the value-added from different countries can lead to some controversial conclusions. Some U.S. lawmakers, for instance, argue China needs to let its currency rise significantly against the U.S. dollar in order to reduce the trade gap between the two nations.
The value-added approach, in fact, shows that sales of the iPhone are adding to the U.S. economy—rather than subtracting from it, as the traditional approach would imply.
Based on U.S. sales of 11.3 million iPhones in 2009, the researchers estimate Chinese iPhone exports at $2.02 billion. After deducting $121.5 million in Chinese imports for parts produced by U.S. firms such as chip maker Broadcom Corp., they arrive at the figure of the $1.9 billion Chinese trade surplus—and U.S. trade deficit—in iPhones.
If China was credited with producing only its portion of the value of an iPhone, its exports to the U.S. for the same amount of iPhones would be a U.S. trade surplus of $48.1 million, after accounting for the parts U.S. firms contribute.
Other economists say some aspects of the researchers methodology may have led them to overstate their case. The study, for example, assumes that companies such as Toshiba Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co. that make components for the iPhone wholly assembled them in their home countries.
But many of Apple's suppliers have manufacturing facilities in China, so it's likely that some portion of the components they build for the iPhone are made in China as well.
The latest results are broadly similar to analyses made by the Personal Computing Industry Center at the University of California, Irvine, of the trade and manufacture of another Apple product, the iPod. That research also found that Chinese labor accounted for only a few dollars of the iPod's value, even though trade statistics credited China with producing its full value.
In a speech in September in New York, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao cited that research to argue that trade tensions between the U.S. and China are overblown. Many of China's exports are products that are made in China on contract for foreign companies, he said, so the U.S. shouldn't criticize China for running a big trade surplus.
"Foreign-funded enterprises, including those of the United States, are major beneficiaries" of this system, Mr. Wen said.
 
I saw you insult somebody and call him uneducated. Not cool!
Anyway, here's something for you to read:
Highlight: China's input in the IPhone is only manual labor and assembly.
Total Chinese value addition to the final IPhone cost is only 3.6%

Tech Supply Chain Exposes Limits of Trade Metrics - WSJ.com

BEIJING—One widely touted solution for current U.S. economic woes is for America to come up with more of the high-tech gadgets that the rest of the world craves.

Yet two academic researchers estimate that Apple Inc.'s iPhone—one of the best-selling U.S. technology products—actually added $1.9 billion to the U.S. trade deficit with China last year.
How is this possible? The researchers say traditional ways of measuring global trade produce the number but fail to reflect the complexities of global commerce where the design, manufacturing and assembly of products often involve several countries.
"A distorted picture" is the result, they say, one that exaggerates trade imbalances between nations.
Trade statistics in both countries consider the iPhone a Chinese export to the U.S., even though it is entirely designed and owned by a U.S. company, and is made largely of parts produced in several Asian and European countries. China's contribution is the last step—assembling and shipping the phones.
So the entire $178.96 estimated wholesale cost of the shipped phone is credited to China, even though the value of the work performed by the Chinese workers at Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. accounts for just 3.6%, or $6.50, of the total, the researchers calculated in a report published this month.
A spokeswoman for Apple said the company declined to comment on the research.

Two academic researchers have found that Apple's iPhone actually added $1.9 billion to the U.S. trade deficit with China last year.

The result is that according to official statistics, "even high-tech products invented by U.S. companies will not increase U.S. exports," write Yuqing Xing and Neal Detert, two researchers at the Asian Development Bank Institute, a think tank in Tokyo, in their report.
This isn't a problem with high-tech products, but with how exports and imports are measured, they say.
The research adds to a growing debate about traditional trade statistics that could have real-world consequences. Conventional trade figures are the basis for political battles waging in Washington and Brussels over what to do about China's currency policies and its allegedly unfair trading practices.
"What we call 'Made in China' is indeed assembled in China, but what makes up the commercial value of the product comes from the numerous countries," Pascal Lamy, the director-general of the World Trade Organization, said in a speech in October. "The concept of country of origin for manufactured goods has gradually become obsolete."
Mr. Lamy said if trade statistics were adjusted to reflect the actual value contributed to a product by different countries, the size of the U.S. trade deficit with China—$226.88 billion, according to U.S. figures—would be cut in half.
To correct for that bias is difficult because it requires detailed knowledge of how products are put together.

Breaking down imports and exports in terms of the value-added from different countries can lead to some controversial conclusions. Some U.S. lawmakers, for instance, argue China needs to let its currency rise significantly against the U.S. dollar in order to reduce the trade gap between the two nations.
The value-added approach, in fact, shows that sales of the iPhone are adding to the U.S. economy—rather than subtracting from it, as the traditional approach would imply.
Based on U.S. sales of 11.3 million iPhones in 2009, the researchers estimate Chinese iPhone exports at $2.02 billion. After deducting $121.5 million in Chinese imports for parts produced by U.S. firms such as chip maker Broadcom Corp., they arrive at the figure of the $1.9 billion Chinese trade surplus—and U.S. trade deficit—in iPhones.
If China was credited with producing only its portion of the value of an iPhone, its exports to the U.S. for the same amount of iPhones would be a U.S. trade surplus of $48.1 million, after accounting for the parts U.S. firms contribute.
Other economists say some aspects of the researchers methodology may have led them to overstate their case. The study, for example, assumes that companies such as Toshiba Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co. that make components for the iPhone wholly assembled them in their home countries.
But many of Apple's suppliers have manufacturing facilities in China, so it's likely that some portion of the components they build for the iPhone are made in China as well.
The latest results are broadly similar to analyses made by the Personal Computing Industry Center at the University of California, Irvine, of the trade and manufacture of another Apple product, the iPod. That research also found that Chinese labor accounted for only a few dollars of the iPod's value, even though trade statistics credited China with producing its full value.
In a speech in September in New York, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao cited that research to argue that trade tensions between the U.S. and China are overblown. Many of China's exports are products that are made in China on contract for foreign companies, he said, so the U.S. shouldn't criticize China for running a big trade surplus.
"Foreign-funded enterprises, including those of the United States, are major beneficiaries" of this system, Mr. Wen said.

if this article was true, then Honhai would be losing money.

But Honhai is larger than microsoft.
 
Good points. I will only offer this observation.

The decades old knowledge acquired by the established players is not locked up in people's brains; it is passed on to the next generation in their educational institutions. These same institutions also have foreign students who instantly get the decades of wisdom handed to them on a platter.

The reason this doesn't help those foreign students' home countries is because those countries usually lack the infrastructure to make use of this knowledge. A top-of-the-class Pakistani student in microprocessor design will have precious few options back in Pakistan; she is much better off putting her talents to use in the US.

That is the part that is changing for China and India. Foreign educated students now have an opportunity to do advanced r&d in their home country. It is for this reason that China and, to some extent India, will have an easier time catching up to the West.

foriegn students return back sure but the impact their knowledge brings is overrated. Yes it helps but its not going to close the R&D gap.. you can hand blueprints to products and chemical compositions to produce products but you will still be lagging behind until all the manufacturing processes and everything else is ironed out... the one way to close the gap would be if american companies baby walked chinese and indian companies into making the products.. otherwise.. its all trial and error.. even gaining those extra western educated engineers still means trial and errors.. just look at our nuclear programs.. perfect example.. indian and pakistani scientists were western educated.. some even working in western nuclear installations.. yet even when they brought that knowledge back.. it still had to be tested.. ironed out... and still they may have got those bombs but by no means are they close in yields and efficiency to western bombs...
 
Do you even know what optronics and LEDs are... you think they're limited to light bulbs?

LED display manufacturers - Google ËÑË÷

i specifically wrote "LED display" so that the lightbulbs get filtered out. it shows even more dominance. What specific area of optronics are we talking about? LED, OLED, liquid crystals, quantum dots, plasma? in which of these specific areas is Russia better than China? My cousin has actually assembled cell phones before and even built his own from spare parts, he has never heard of a single display from Russia but plenty of displays are from China. Lasers? China leads the world in laser technology by 15 years. Laser welding is so routine in china even tiny noname companies can provide top of the line laser welding equipment:

Öйú¼¤¹âÍø-»Û´ÏÍø¼¤¹âƵµÀ-Á캽¼¤¹âÐÐÒµµÄÖÐÎÄ´¹Ö±ÃÅ»§ÍøÕ¾,¼¤¹âµñ¿Ì»ú,¼¤¹â´ò±ê»ú,¼¤¹âÇиî»ú,¼¤¹âº¸½Ó»ú,CO2¼¤¹âÆ÷,¼¤¹âµçÔ´

Also, when you think Russia has "done its infrastructure", that's totally stupid and wrong, a typical sign of a low IQ to not consider all possibilities. Japan and Germany ALSO have "done their infrastructures" 50 years ago but they were FAR ahead of Russia in trains, so what is the excuse? they now lag far behind China in the aspect of high speed trains, with their trains running at least 25% slower.

What a joke that you think that heavy industry depends on being at an early stage of development. Africa is also at an early stage of development, where is their heavy industry? Why does India have to import its machine tools from China? Why does Russia have to shamefully import construction equipment while China doesn't? Why is Russia not a top leading shipbuilder and China is? Shanghai Shipyards makes billions USD per year building ships with 100,000 tons, larger than carriers, you think it is because of technical reasons we don't make carriers? you think we can't make 30 year old Russian carriers with half the displacement?

Chemicals, what a joke, if it was all about population then why is Germany's BASF far bigger than the rest? in what aspect of Chemistry is Russia superior to China? Life sciences reagents, materials, processing, instrumentation, catalysts? Number of articles published?

I hate talking with uneducated people, even Gambit talks with some facts, you don't know sh*t about chemistry, materials or manufacturing.

dude.... i pointed outtt somethingg... you can continue to beat your chest about how great China is... and I gave credit where its due... but otherwise... sure.. there are millions more chinese chest beaters like you.. i don't reallyy give a shhitt brotherrr...... you can stick around and keep beating your chest some more here... im out... peace....
 
if this article was true, then Honhai would be losing money.

But Honhai is larger than microsoft.

C'mon, this is not some blog or tabloid article!

Do you not realize that the Wall Street Journal is one of the most respected newspapers in the world?

Please understand the fundamental difference between revenue and profit. A large government owned company may have a huge revenue compared to a small privately owned company, yet it may make lesser profits. This is an example, I am not saying Honhai is Gavt. owned.
 
Do you not realize that the Wall Street Journal is one of the most respected newspapers in the world?

Ask knowledgeable white man, he will tell you (depends on if he believes you are his peers, most likely not, so he won't tell you).

But anyway, I'll tell you. WSJ is garbage.

Live in your dreams, aim high, for a Nobel prize hopefully.

What the white man won't tell you: some serious research paper you can pick up in an investment bank bathroom, it will tell you when a certain price of stock should be *AT*. Don't worry, someone will make sure it reaches there, who cares the money came from, from Saudis, Overseas, Europe, or simply poor American social security, or simply mutual funds.


But, it will be there.
Only when you know for sure what future is, you can profit from it.

Ah, Why do I bother.
I guess try to make defence.pk diversified. :azn:
 
dude.... i pointed outtt somethingg... you can continue to beat your chest about how great China is... and I gave credit where its due... but otherwise... sure.. there are millions more chinese chest beaters like you.. i don't reallyy give a shhitt brotherrr...... you can stick around and keep beating your chest some more here... im out... peace....

i have never used the phrase ”china is great" or even "china is good" or even "china is average". i have posted facts and facts alone, no opinion at all.
 
I think China is steadily getting there, but Chinese need to have much more nationalism -- that will make sure China keep the best and brightest -- and China needs to have more creative thinking. IMO 95% of Chinese still think in a very uncreative way. China needs more artists and visionaries. I think this is what the West is very good at and we should learn from this.
 
Ask knowledgeable white man, he will tell you (depends on if he believes you are his peers, most likely not, so he won't tell you).

But anyway, I'll tell you. WSJ is garbage.

Live in your dreams, aim high, for a Nobel prize hopefully.

What the white man won't tell you: some serious research paper you can pick up in an investment bank bathroom, it will tell you when a certain price of stock should be *AT*. Don't worry, someone will make sure it reaches there, who cares the money came from, from Saudis, Overseas, Europe, or simply poor American social security, or simply mutual funds.


But, it will be there.
Only when you know for sure what future is, you can profit from it.

Ah, Why do I bother.
I guess try to make defence.pk diversified. :azn:

Why do we need to ask a 'white man' to know the value of WSJ? Are we 'dark men' not astute enough to confirm that by ourselves?
 
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