US-trained Pakistani commandos to move into FATA

[Neo]

US-trained Pakistani commandos to move into FATA​

* Senior Pakistani official says deployment of special force will meet American demand for immediate action in Tribal Areas
* Says proposals calibrated to protect Pakistan’s sovereignty​

WASHINGTON: A Pakistani Special Service Group (SSG) unit, trained by Americans, is to be deployed in the Tribal Areas bordering Afghanistan to take quick and effective action against insurgents.

A report in the Los Angeles Times on Sunday said: “The Pakistani commando division, trained by the United States, is an elite special operations force similar to the [US] Army’s Special Forces, or Green Berets. Pakistan has been criticised for sending conventional troops who do not have training in the kind of guerrilla warfare techniques that US officials say are needed to fight the militants in the Tribal Areas. ‘The Americans tell us that they need action now,’ said a senior Pakistani official who was in Washington last week during Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s meetings with President [George W] Bush. Deployment of the special Pakistani force ‘will meet the American demand of immediate action’.”

Protection: The senior Pakistani official told the newspaper that the proposals were calibrated to protect Pakistan’s sovereignty. Islamabad has also proposed allowing the US to deploy more sophisticated equipment in the Tribal Areas in a joint effort to track and kill insurgents, officials said. Pakistan’s military has told the Pentagon that it is planning to move a major unit of its regular army into the Tribal Areas and senior Pakistani officials have proposed a plan in which the intelligence services of both countries would work to end the conflict between the spies and informants that each uses in the Tribal Areas and who have often been working against each other.

Accusations: While US officials accuse Pakistan of not doing enough to block the cross-border movement of militants, Pakistan, in turn, has criticised the CIA for cultivating assets in the region that it believes are against Islamabad’s interests. “The Pakistan government wants to show that we want to bring terror in our region to an end and that we want to work with the United States for that purpose,” the senior Pakistani official told the American newspaper. “But we also believe that there is more that the United States can do as well, and that we have asked it to do.”

Ambassador Husain Haqqani has confirmed that various proposals were discussed during last week’s meetings, but said he could not talk about them. Embassy spokesman Nadeem Kiani said, “They have agreed to take certain measures, but it would not be appropriate to make them public, so that results could be achieved. But we are discussing and have agreed to take certain actions to strengthen relations between the two countries and to fight the war against terrorism more successfully so our mutual objectives could be achieved.”

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[cactuslily58]

US-trained Pakistani commandos to move into FATA​

* Senior Pakistani official says deployment of special force will meet American demand for immediate action in Tribal Areas
* Says proposals calibrated to protect Pakistan’s sovereignty​

WASHINGTON: A Pakistani Special Service Group (SSG) unit, trained by Americans, is to be deployed in the Tribal Areas bordering Afghanistan to take quick and effective action against insurgents.

A report in the Los Angeles Times on Sunday said: “The Pakistani commando division, trained by the United States, is an elite special operations force similar to the [US] Army’s Special Forces, or Green Berets. Pakistan has been criticised for sending conventional troops who do not have training in the kind of guerrilla warfare techniques that US officials say are needed to fight the militants in the Tribal Areas. ‘The Americans tell us that they need action now,’ said a senior Pakistani official who was in Washington last week during Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s meetings with President [George W] Bush. Deployment of the special Pakistani force ‘will meet the American demand of immediate action’.”

Protection: The senior Pakistani official told the newspaper that the proposals were calibrated to protect Pakistan’s sovereignty. Islamabad has also proposed allowing the US to deploy more sophisticated equipment in the Tribal Areas in a joint effort to track and kill insurgents, officials said. Pakistan’s military has told the Pentagon that it is planning to move a major unit of its regular army into the Tribal Areas and senior Pakistani officials have proposed a plan in which the intelligence services of both countries would work to end the conflict between the spies and informants that each uses in the Tribal Areas and who have often been working against each other.

Accusations: While US officials accuse Pakistan of not doing enough to block the cross-border movement of militants, Pakistan, in turn, has criticised the CIA for cultivating assets in the region that it believes are against Islamabad’s interests. “The Pakistan government wants to show that we want to bring terror in our region to an end and that we want to work with the United States for that purpose,” the senior Pakistani official told the American newspaper. “But we also believe that there is more that the United States can do as well, and that we have asked it to do.”

Ambassador Husain Haqqani has confirmed that various proposals were discussed during last week’s meetings, but said he could not talk about them. Embassy spokesman Nadeem Kiani said, “They have agreed to take certain measures, but it would not be appropriate to make them public, so that results could be achieved. But we are discussing and have agreed to take certain actions to strengthen relations between the two countries and to fight the war against terrorism more successfully so our mutual objectives could be achieved.”

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Somebody please correct me if I have got this wrong..Pakistani troops needed to trained by US trainers to operate in their own territory ?

 

[Durran3]

Yes it may seem that way but you have to take into consideration that Pakistani Armed forces never really needed to fight their own people in the Federally administered Tribal Areas. The US actually has far more experience when it comes to taking down insurgents. The Armed forces haven't had positive results in places like South Waziristan or other FATA areas which in the end mostly resort to some Weak Peace deals that only last a couple of days after some days of fierce fighting. Most of the Armed forces are trained for head on Combat rather than guerrilla warfare.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Somebody please correct me if I have got this wrong..Pakistani troops needed to trained by US trainers to operate in their own territory ?

Pakistanis troops utilized the tactical experience gained by the US military in COIN, through their fight against the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its a different role for the PA compared to their traditional training and doctrine relative to a war with India on the Eastern front.

 

[fatman17]

^^
1. what do we mean by SSG "Division" here?
2. SSG is already experienced in CI ops.
3. we dont need "training by US advisors" to fight the militants.
4. the SSG will be supported by elements of the PA mechanised infantry (Punjab and Baluch regiments)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fatman,

My understanding was that the Pakistani SF's were working with US SF trainers on airborne assault tactics etc.

I am not sure how many SSG troops are actually being 'deployed' - if they are to be utilized effectively, then it would seem to me that the would be employed in specific missions and against specific targets, with the majority of the work still being done by regular Army and FC.

 

[fatman17]

Fatman,

My understanding was that the Pakistani SF's were working with US SF trainers on airborne assault tactics etc.

I am not sure how many SSG troops are actually being 'deployed' - if they are to be utilized effectively, then it would seem to me that the would be employed in specific missions and against specific targets, with the majority of the work still being done by regular Army and FC.

correct, remember the SSG has regular "excercises" with the US Army SF's to exchange ideas and tactics, so what i meant to say its "nothing new" for us except induction of new equipment like helmet mounted NV goggles and sniper rifles etc.

 

[batmannow]

US-trained Pak Commandos to Deploy
August 04, 2008
BBC

WASHINGTON -- A Pakistani Special Service Group unit trained by Americans is to be deployed in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan to take quick and effective action against insurgents. "The Pakistani commando division, trained by the United States, is an elite special operations force similar to the [U.S.] Army's Special Forces, or Green Berets," an Aug. 2 report in the Los Angeles Times said.

Pakistan has been criticised for sending conventional troops who do not have training in the kind of guerrilla warfare techniques that U.S. officials say are needed to fight the militants in the Tribal Areas.

"The Americans tell us that they need action now," said a senior Pakistani official who was in Washington last week during Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gillani's meetings with President Bush. Deployment of the special Pakistani force will meet the American demand of immediate action, he said.

The senior Pakistani official told the newspaper that the proposals were calibrated to protect Pakistan's sovereignty. Islamabad has also proposed allowing the U.S. to deploy more sophisticated equipment in the Tribal Areas in a joint effort to track and kill insurgents, officials said.

Pakistan's military has told the Pentagon that it is planning to move a major unit of its regular army into the Tribal Areas and senior Pakistani officials have proposed a plan in which the intelligence services of both countries would work to end the conflict between the spies and informants that each uses in the Tribal Areas and who have often been working against each other.

While U.S. officials accuse Pakistan of not doing enough to block the cross-border movement of militants, Pakistan, in turn, has criticised the CIA for cultivating assets in the region that it believes are against Islamabad's interests.
"The Pakistan government wants to show that we want to bring terror in our region to an end and that we want to work with the United States for that purpose," the senior Pakistani official told the newspaper. "But we also believe that there is more that the United States can do as well, and that we have asked it to do."
Ambassador Husain Haqqani has confirmed that various proposals were discussed during last week's meetings, but said he could not talk about them. Embassy spokesman Nadeem Kiani said, "They have agreed to take certain measures, but it would not be appropriate to make them public, so that results could be achieved. But we are discussing and have agreed to take certain actions to strengthen relations between the two countries and to fight the war against terrorism more successfully so our mutual objectives could be achieved."
© Copyright 2008 BBC. All rights reserved.


I, guss the timing is right! in the right direction because surly, SSG needs to update its basics ,against a enemy which is hiding itself inthe most difficult landscape of the world. a enemy using orthodx ways and means to attack innocent civillians & basic civic installations for thier blind folded extemism. so for that prpose SSG need new kind of training basicly, also SSG needs more knowledge about the special equipments in the , SPECIALLY WAGED WAR.
I think, not only a unit of SSG is enough for that difficult mission, there should be a seprate elite command, and a elite force, with atlest 150,000 strong troops in numbers is being needed in the area of NWFP.[/B]

It, is the time that our military leadership should realize that!!! number of troops now serving in the PAK ARMY, is not...... was not ENOUGH.

 

[IceCold]

US-trained Pak Commandos to Deploy
August 04, 2008
BBC

WASHINGTON -- A Pakistani Special Service Group unit trained by Americans is to be deployed in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan to take quick and effective action against insurgents. "The Pakistani commando division, trained by the United States, is an elite special operations force similar to the [U.S.] Army's Special Forces, or Green Berets," an Aug. 2 report in the Los Angeles Times said.

Pakistan has been criticised for sending conventional troops who do not have training in the kind of guerrilla warfare techniques that U.S. officials say are needed to fight the militants in the Tribal Areas.

"The Americans tell us that they need action now," said a senior Pakistani official who was in Washington last week during Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gillani's meetings with President Bush. Deployment of the special Pakistani force will meet the American demand of immediate action, he said.

The senior Pakistani official told the newspaper that the proposals were calibrated to protect Pakistan's sovereignty. Islamabad has also proposed allowing the U.S. to deploy more sophisticated equipment in the Tribal Areas in a joint effort to track and kill insurgents, officials said.

Pakistan's military has told the Pentagon that it is planning to move a major unit of its regular army into the Tribal Areas and senior Pakistani officials have proposed a plan in which the intelligence services of both countries would work to end the conflict between the spies and informants that each uses in the Tribal Areas and who have often been working against each other.

While U.S. officials accuse Pakistan of not doing enough to block the cross-border movement of militants, Pakistan, in turn, has criticised the CIA for cultivating assets in the region that it believes are against Islamabad's interests.
"The Pakistan government wants to show that we want to bring terror in our region to an end and that we want to work with the United States for that purpose," the senior Pakistani official told the newspaper. "But we also believe that there is more that the United States can do as well, and that we have asked it to do."
Ambassador Husain Haqqani has confirmed that various proposals were discussed during last week's meetings, but said he could not talk about them. Embassy spokesman Nadeem Kiani said, "They have agreed to take certain measures, but it would not be appropriate to make them public, so that results could be achieved. But we are discussing and have agreed to take certain actions to strengthen relations between the two countries and to fight the war against terrorism more successfully so our mutual objectives could be achieved."
© Copyright 2008 BBC. All rights reserved.

I guss, this move came after the following SSG unit , completed the most advanced , & most technical modrnized counter insurgency tranining of the modren ERA I think, not only a unit of SSG is enough for that difficult mission, there should be a seprate elite command, and a elite force, with atlest 150,000strong troops in numbers is being needed in the area of NWFP.
It, is the time that our military leadership should realize that!!! number of troops now serving in the PAK ARMY, is not...... was not ENOUGH.

The number that you are mentioning about 150,000, they wont be elite anymore dude.

 

[JK!]

Batmannow here is part of a post by Niaz in the PN aviation section:

This may be a wish list but one must be pragmatic. How are we going to pay for all the fancy hardware? We don’t have money to pay for our daily needs (Trade deficit was $20-billion! in 2007-2008). Economy is on the way to a meltdown. Even Saudi deferred payment has not yet gone thru.

Basically to raise what is more or less the size of the British army in addition to the current size of the Pakistan army in addition to the various paramilitary forces and then to train and equip them is not a practical move for Pakistan.

 

[batmannow]

The number that you are mentioning about 150,000, they wont be elite anymore dude.

DEAR, ICECOLD, sir ..... its not unachivable, or it isnt imposible to get a new ELITE REACTION FORCE , their are lot of countries who have different types of command, & diffrnt kind of forces, for differnt type of situations, in different enviroments.

infact, even IRAN have a bigger regular army thn PAKARMY, PAKISTAN ARMY is suffereing from lack in numbers of troops , its a realty. if pakarmy can put a new command, with 150,000 smart & specialy trained troops, i am sure it will serv pakistan in the long term.

 

[batmannow]

This may be a wish list but one must be pragmatic. How are we going to pay for all the fancy hardware? We don’t have money to pay for our daily needs (Trade deficit was $20-billion! in 2007-2008). Economy is on the way to a meltdown. Even Saudi deferred payment has not yet gone thru.

Basically to raise what is more or less the size of the British army in addition to the current size of the Pakistan army in addition to the various paramilitary forces and then to train and equip them is not a practical move for Pakistan.

DEAR, JK , sir.... i fully understand, what is our crunt economic condition is , but any way !!! 5,0000 TROOPS are not enough with the patrn of thier traning from the 2nd world war EARA.

 

[Keysersoze]

Batmannow please stop using the bright colours in your posts please. You have been warned before.....

 

[blain2]

Fatman,

My understanding was that the Pakistani SF's were working with US SF trainers on airborne assault tactics etc.

I am not sure how many SSG troops are actually being 'deployed' - if they are to be utilized effectively, then it would seem to me that the would be employed in specific missions and against specific targets, with the majority of the work still being done by regular Army and FC.

If I may add a few things here, Pakistan Army has been sending quite a few officers and JCOs from the SSG to the US for Air Assault training. This in no way translates into US trained "Special Forces" or SSG. We learn things from them but they are not training Pakistani armed forces at the scale of how training is being done in Iraq or Afghanistan and neither is there a need for it.

As far as the deployment of the SSG is concerned, the unit command has been upgraded to divisional level, however not all Brigades or Battalions are tasked with LIC/CI roles. The way things were split was that one of the original SSG battalions was converted into a Special Operations Battalion and this battalion formed the nucleus of the SOTF (Special Operations Task Force). This SOTF has essentially become an entity all its own and has been provided considerable funding for equipment and transport.

So your last paragraph is exactly right. The SOTF would be the spear's point in any Special Operations pertaining to the situation in FATA where we are dealing with a long term LIC but used for specific missions. The regular Army units assist with such and carry out other more conventional operations. The paramilitary and regular Army units also remain behind after such operations but the SOTF units are withdrawn. Having said that, this does not mean that other SSG operators are not involved in the recce and intelligence gathering in the area. They have been trained in the region and mix really well with the local population, thus they are an asset in this theater of operations. Unfortunately, the theater and the culture is a very difficult one to operate in. There are no short cuts and there is no formation anywhere (even with the US Armed Forces) that can handle this problem with "ease".

 

[cactuslily58]

Pakistanis troops utilized the tactical experience gained by the US military in COIN, through their fight against the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its a different role for the PA compared to their traditional training and doctrine relative to a war with India on the Eastern front.

I wonder how many of us on this forum are from a Military background. I find this hard to comprehend .

No military man worth his salt will accept such an argument. Intelligence sharing etc is another option but this ..... Anyway Good luck & god speed.