Turkey and Pakistan: a special relationship

[Indos]

There is nothing special just good relations for the time being. As soon as Erdogan is gone all good relations will go down the drain just as it happened with Malaysia after Mahatir left the office. Erdogan is the last leader of his kind after him there is no leader who has the will for similar relations with Pakistan. Economic relations will always triumph muslims brotherhoods in current world order. Relations with countries depend on present government and their policy direction not bcz we love each other. Pakistanis need to understand time of Ertgrul, Salah ud din ayubi is gone and no one will come to help us if we ever go to war with India or even those pidi ka shorba afghanis for a matter of fact.

The relation I believe will be still good between Pakistan and Malaysia but the different IMO is that Malaysia foreign policy will not intervene too much on Kashmir issue just like during Mahathir period. It is not because Muslim nation doesnt support Pakistan, but most Muslim nations dont like to complicate conflict between two Nuclear armed nations. The war between the two will create huge disaster. Keeping Pakistan in a safe state is in the interest of all Muslim, and the war between Pakistan and India will be cheered by both Israel and US tea party movement.

The situation will change dramatically if dramatic event appear like India decide to invade Pakistani administered Kashmir. Similar way just like how Muslim nation blockade Israeli because Palestinian issue despite the blockade is against USA interest.

Current situation in Kashmir doesnt give much pressure to Muslim nation to change their relation with India dramatically.

 

[Tameem]

There is nothing special just good relations for the time being. As soon as Erdogan is gone all good relations will go down the drain just as it happened with Malaysia after Mahatir left the office. Erdogan is the last leader of his kind after him there is no leader who has the will for similar relations with Pakistan. Economic relations will always triumph muslims brotherhoods in current world order. Relations with countries depend on present government and their policy direction not bcz we love each other. Pakistanis need to understand time of Ertgrul, Salah ud din ayubi is gone and no one will come to help us if we ever go to war with India or even those pidi ka shorba afghanis for a matter of fact.

You are quite right but Erdogan impact on Turkish politics will be lasting this is not 1920 when Turkey feel betrayed and want off lodge the responsibilities of Muslim world under Khilafat as soon as possible. Post Khilafat Turkey did save his *** under staunch nationalism drive but it did stagnate his true aspiration as world leader as well bcz at one hand it exclude himself from the affairs of (Muslim/ME) voluntarily while on the other hand Europeans always kept their door shut for Turkey being Muslim despite their leaders utmost efforts to erase anything resembling Islamic (LOL).

After Erdogan Turkey finds its true natural rythem and on top of it Political Islam too finds its utility in current age as well. Erdogan wants the glory of Ottoman Empire to be back for Turkey (something his opposition is of too allergic) and his actions on the grounds proves that Turkey could become the center of Islamic world once again as well as a moderaized country in itself. The age of Kamalism is gone.. it's history. The age of Erdoganism is here to stay for a forseeable future.

 

[Pandora]

The relation I believe will be still good between Pakistan and Malaysia but the different IMO is that Malaysia foreign policy will not intervene too much on Kashmir issue just like during Mahathir period. It is not because Muslim nation doesnt support Pakistan, but most Muslim nations dont like to complicate conflict between two Nuclear armed nations. The war between the two will create huge disaster. Keeping Pakistan in a safe state is in the interest of all Muslim, and the war between Pakistan and India will be cheered by both Israel and US tea party movement.

The situation will change dramatically if dramatic event appear like India decide to invade Pakistani administered Kashmir. Similar way just like how Muslim nation blockade Israeli because Palestinian issue despite the blockade is against USA interest.

Current situation in Kashmir doesnt give much pressure to Muslim nation to change their relation with India dramatically.

Mate no one should expect other Muslim countries for help in first place. In current world order Muslim countries are like headless chickens. State of Muslim countries always reminds me of this hadith

Messenger of Allah said: "The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food." It was said: "Will it be because of our small number that day?" He said:

"Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will be like foam, like the foam on the river. And Allah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies and will throw wahn (weakness) into your hearts." Someone said: "O Messenger of Allah! What is wahn?" He said: "Love of the world and the hatred for death."
Sahih: Related by Abu Dawud (no. 4297), Ibn 'Asakirin in Tarikh Dimashq (2/97/8) and others. It was authenticated by Al-Albani in As-Sahihah (no. 958)

You are quite right but Erdogan impact on Turkish politics will be lasting this is not 1920 when Turkey feel betrayed and want off lodge the responsibilities of Muslim world under Khilafat as soon as possible. Post Khilafat Turkey did save his *** under staunch nationalism drive but it did stagnate his true aspiration as world leader as well bcz at one hand it exclude himself from the affairs of (Muslim/ME) voluntarily while on the other hand Europeans always kept their door shut for Turkey being Muslim despite their leaders utmost efforts to erase anything resembling Islamic (LOL).

After Erdogan Turkey finds its true natural rythem and on top of it Political Islam too finds its utility in current age as well. Erdogan wants the glory of Ottoman Empire to be back for Turkey (something his opposition is of too allergic) and his actions on the grounds proves that Turkey could become the center of Islamic world once again as well as a moderaized country in itself. The age of Kamalism is gone.. it's history. The age of Erdoganism is here to stay for a forseeable future.

Mate you havnt been to turkey otherwise you wouldnt be making these statement. For every turk Attaturk Kamal is a hero and they follow his teaching without even a shred of second doubt. What you have seen about turkey is via our media and what Turkey projects at us for their own benefit. Even Erdogan is slowly loosing ground and lost lot of political ground bcz people fear him as a staunch Islamist even though that is totally not the case with him. Erdogan might not survive in next election.

 

[Tameem]

Mate no one should expect other Muslim countries for help in first place. In current world order Muslim countries are like headless chickens. State of Muslim countries always reminds me of this hadith

Messenger of Allah said: "The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food." It was said: "Will it be because of our small number that day?" He said:

"Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will be like foam, like the foam on the river. And Allah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies and will throw wahn (weakness) into your hearts." Someone said: "O Messenger of Allah! What is wahn?" He said: "Love of the world and the hatred for death."
Sahih: Related by Abu Dawud (no. 4297), Ibn 'Asakirin in Tarikh Dimashq (2/97/8) and others. It was authenticated by Al-Albani in As-Sahihah (no. 958)



Mate you havnt been to turkey otherwise you wouldnt be making these statement. For every turk Attaturk Kamal is a hero and they follow his teaching without even a shred of second doubt. What you have seen about turkey is via our media and what Turkey projects at us for their own benefit. Even Erdogan is slowly loosing ground and lost lot of political ground bcz people fear him as a staunch Islamist even though that is totally not the case with him. Erdogan might not survive in next election.

Fear Enough.
AKP is ruling Turkey since 2002 there must be an incumbancy factor always in the populace even if in next election there is a close call or defeat for AKP it would be good in the longer run as Erdogan opposition have no vision at all the best this time they can do is to go for an alliance with French and Germans to sideline AKP forever nothing else.

 

[Indos]

Mate no one should expect other Muslim countries for help in first place. In current world order Muslim countries are like headless chickens. State of Muslim countries always reminds me of this hadith

Messenger of Allah said: "The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food." It was said: "Will it be because of our small number that day?" He said:

"Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will be like foam, like the foam on the river. And Allah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies and will throw wahn (weakness) into your hearts." Someone said: "O Messenger of Allah! What is wahn?" He said: "Love of the world and the hatred for death."
Sahih: Related by Abu Dawud (no. 4297), Ibn 'Asakirin in Tarikh Dimashq (2/97/8) and others. It was authenticated by Al-Albani in As-Sahihah (no. 958)

Muslim countries are in a sad situation currently, I dont doubt it. Look how divided we are in Syria, Yemen, Afghan, and Libya. But nevertheless it is still much better than when we were still colonized before WW2 happen.

I still have high hope for the future for Muslim world but the true problem of current Muslim nation is that we rather hate each other instead of competing healthily in a democratic system. We still cannot manage our differences like how civilize society do. We also need to combat our corrupt behavior that become big hurdle of our economic development.

I rather hope for Muslim countries to focus on economic and technology development at this moment while keep learning to cooperate with each other.

Once we can manage our internal issue in our own nation, then we can step forward to think about building effective cooperation between Muslim nations.

 

[Pandora]

Muslim countries are in a sad situation currently, I dont doubt it. Look how divided we are in Syria, Yemen, Afghan, and Libya. But nevertheless it is still much better than when we were still colonized before WW2 happen.

I still have high hope for the future for Muslim world but the true problem of current Muslim nation is that we rather hate each other instead of competing healthily in a democratic system. We still cannot manage our differences like how civilize society do. We also need to combat our corrupt behavior that become big hurdle of our economic development.

I rather hope for Muslim countries to focus on economic and technology development at this moment while keep learning to cooperate with each other.

Once we can manage our internal issue in our own nation, then we can step forward to think about building effective cooperation between Muslim nations.

Mate i dont hate any one dont get me wrong here but i dont expect much from any country if Pakistan is forced into a full fledged war right now. I mean just look at the pathetic state of muslims when Israel is about to annex west bank and India has effectively annexed Kashmir what else is there to expect from them. I mean last time Turkey Malysia and Qatar along with Pakistan tried to form a cooperative block Saudia and Emirates started to have fits and threatened us of deporting every single Pakistani. I mean this is the height of insecurity amongst Muslims countries so like i said nothing much to expect from other countries for now.

 

[Silverblaze]

Mate i dont hate any one dont get me wrong here but i dont expect much from any country if Pakistan is forced into a full fledged war right now. I mean just look at the pathetic state of muslims when Israel is about to annex west bank and India has effectively annexed Kashmir what else is there to expect from them. I mean last time Turkey Malysia and Qatar along with Pakistan tried to form a cooperative block Saudia and Emirates started to have fits and threatened us of deporting every single Pakistani. I mean this is the height of insecurity amongst Muslims countries so like i said nothing much to expect from other countries for now.

Every word you wrote is sad but true. Another example is Afghanistan. People can search - While nepal and myanmar signed friendship treaties with india in 50s despite disputed boundaries - Afghanistan even refused to recognize Pakistan as a state. When are women and children were being mutilated in 47, afghans were planning to annex KP and the rest is history. But the bhai group doesnt understand.

Its saddening that we get more support from China (for their own interests) than from whom we claim a religious bond.

One sincerely hopes Pakistan becomes a nation state rich in Pakistani nationalism, with a strong economy and a major world military power.

 

[Psychic]

just i want you to be sure nobody will remember the Pakistan after erdogan leave the office ..it is Erdogan himself putting speacial effort for Pakistan and few other muslim countries..
Yeah Thats what I am basically was saying in the last post
I am doubtful most Turks would care about Pakistan when Erdogan leaves office

Bro, you are ignorant of history, and present as well of why there is a relationship between Pak-Turkey or Pak-KSA. (No offense intended)

Pakistan has been supporting Turkey in all its issues be it Cyprus, Ngorongoro Karabakh or Bosnia. Its not due to "Erdogan Effect".

Similarly, one does not become an "Arab-slave" for stating the fact that KSA bailed us out after nuclear test sanctions or that Pakistan's economy is kept afloat by remittances sent by millions of Pakistanis who earn their bread and butter there and in GCC. You are over-obsessed with nationalism and ethnic pride even when you live in the West, don't know about local culture or psyche and probably don't know much about local language either (A paradox).

Some food for thought for you. Go through that link. It is a friendly advice.
https://www.brecorder.com/2020/05/19/595826/the-origins-of-pakistan-turkiye-brotherhood/

Also, my great grand father who was in British Indian army deserted(like many of his fellow muslim soldiers) when they were sent to fight in Mesopotamia.
@Desert Fox @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

 

[Yankee-stani]

Bro, you are ignorant of history, and present as well of why there is a relationship between Pak-Turkey or Pak-KSA. (No offense intended)

Pakistan has been supporting Turkey in all its issues be it Cyprus, Ngorongoro Karabakh or Bosnia. Its not due to "Erdogan Effect".

Similarly, one does not become an "Arab-slave" for stating the fact that KSA bailed us out after nuclear test sanctions or that Pakistan's economy is kept afloat by remittances sent by millions of Pakistanis who earn their bread and butter there and in GCC. You are over-obsessed with nationalism and ethnic pride even when you live in the West, don't know about local culture or psyche and probably don't know much about local language either (A paradox).

Some food for thought for you. Go through that link. It is a friendly advice.
https://www.brecorder.com/2020/05/19/595826/the-origins-of-pakistan-turkiye-brotherhood/

Also, my great grand father who was in British Indian army deserted(like many of his fellow muslim soldiers) when they were sent to fight in Mesopotamia against the Ottomans.
@Desert Fox @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

No I am well aware of that and not ignorant of Pakistan"s support for the Turks and what not as Pakistan was part of the anti Soviet alliance with Turkey,Iran pre 1979

 

[Psychic]

No I am well aware of that and not ignorant of Pakistan"s support for the Turks and what not as Pakistan was part of the anti Soviet alliance with Turkey,Iran pre 1979

Most likely, you haven't bothered to read the link at all.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Bro, you are ignorant of history, and present as well of why there is a relationship between Pak-Turkey or Pak-KSA. (No offense intended)

Pakistan has been supporting Turkey in all its issues be it Cyprus, Ngorongoro Karabakh or Bosnia. Its not due to "Erdogan Effect".

Similarly, one does not become an "Arab-slave" for stating the fact that KSA bailed us out after nuclear test sanctions or that Pakistan's economy is kept afloat by remittances sent by millions of Pakistanis who earn their bread and butter there and in GCC. You are over-obsessed with nationalism and ethnic pride even when you live in the West, don't know about local culture or psyche and probably don't know much about local language either (A paradox).

Some food for thought for you. Go through that link. It is a friendly advice.
https://www.brecorder.com/2020/05/19/595826/the-origins-of-pakistan-turkiye-brotherhood/

Also, my great grand father who was in British Indian army deserted(like many of his fellow muslim soldiers) when they were sent to fight in Mesopotamia against the Ottomans.
@Desert Fox @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

We shouldn't let non-Pakistanis pull us apart from our allies like Turks and Arabs. Iran is our enemy state, no matter how good we are with them, they will backstab us again. Their agents are also.

 

[Yankee-stani]

We shouldn't let non-Pakistanis pull us apart from our allies like Turks and Arabs. Iran is our enemy state, no matter how good we are with them, they will backstab us again. Their agents are also.

Weren't you calling Arabs backstabbers not too long ago

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Usually all Islamist politician will put more emphasis on Muslim brotherhood. So it is not about Erdogan or not, but it is whether about Islamist lead coalition (AKP) or Secular lead coalition.

Despite so, secular Nationalist ruling doesnt necessarily move away from Muslim world either. By seeing the politics of Indonesia who also have that divide, Secular Nationalist coalition under Jokowi also have emphasis on Muslim brotherhood like what his administration does in UN for Palestine and Afghanistan peace process.

Jokowi for instant also attend conference in Saudi when Saudi gathered all Muslim nation leader, his foreign minister pressing and lecturing China several time over Uigyur handling, visiting Pakistan/Bangladesh/Turkey and so on. He even stressed about the importance for Muslim to pay attention on Muslim Brotherhood during his speech in Pakistan parliament.

The relation will be kept in warm mode but I believe Kashmir issue will not be handled as like Erdogan handles it.

Shia Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was one of the best friends of King Faisal and Qaddafi, so Islamic solidarity supersedes sect or secularism. It is the advantage of Muslim countries to have good ties. No one in Europe will give Pakistan a warm welcome like Turkey has done.

Foreign policies of Pakistan and Turkey converge on many levels. It is not because of Erdogan alone. We had warm ties with Turks throughout secularism, and we even idolize Ataturk.

Pak Turk friendship is here to stay.

Haters can burn, it matters not.

 

[CrazyZ]

In my assessment, regional blocs will play a larger role in the future world order. The Turkey-Pakistan relationship will be a vital component of any regional bloc emerging out of ME/NA/Islamic region. We need to get the Arabs and Iranians to understand this and join us.

 

[OIO]

Muslim countries are in a sad situation currently, I dont doubt it. Look how divided we are in Syria, Yemen, Afghan, and Libya. But nevertheless it is still much better than when we were still colonized before WW2 happen.

I still have high hope for the future for Muslim world but the true problem of current Muslim nation is that we rather hate each other instead of competing healthily in a democratic system. We still cannot manage our differences like how civilize society do. We also need to combat our corrupt behavior that become big hurdle of our economic development.

I rather hope for Muslim countries to focus on economic and technology development at this moment while keep learning to cooperate with each other.

Once we can manage our internal issue in our own nation, then we can step forward to think about building effective cooperation between Muslim nations.

The future of ME is very clear, connecting East Asia and EU with energy tunnel, railway, highway. The problem is when and how it comes true. There are more politicians than scientists and engineers, and are too eager to get involved in none Muslim country Muslim issue.