Time for Pakistanis to put Pakistan first

[53fd]

one thing is, you have grossly understand the concept of majority of pakistan for being extremists

pakistani majority dont have any religious political affiliations, many pakistanis like me find the role of religious political parties not good, because religious or not the politics is corrupt we all know that

the muslims like me declare muslims first, but we should all know pakistan was made on name of islam in the first place, the people who think they are muslims first do not sympathise with saudi arabia, we dont wanna end up like saudi arabia

we also know how the good king of KSA, king faisal was murdered, the present saudi system is the blessing of american protected people, king faisal was my ideal not the present kings etc

we people think shahriah can be implemented, but no body thinks about taliban shariah or saudi shariah, or iranian shariah, these are not shariah, these are the idea of illeterate people

the thing is while living abroad, i have understood the concept of muslim brotherhood, we muslims are more alike than non muslims, we pray together, eat food together etc, we have many similarities

the thing is the poll has shown there is a vast majority of people who are very conservative, and they account of 90% of population

education i must say always plays a great role in brining awareness amoung the pakistanis, so before we all start rubbishing each other and saying hey, that secular guy is more patriotic than you milthy mullah muslim, we must realize what a specific party thinks,

we, pakistanis must stop dividing each other and respect each others opinions without generalisations

one other problem i encountered was the racist feelings among pakistanis like hey, those karachi walas must be deported to india, or hey those punjabis are all illeterates or they stink hve no education, lahore follows hindu traditions or hey peshawar has mullah followers etc it has gay pathans, we should all stop stereotyiing and dividing us into categories and be true pakistanis, we can become example for muslim world and the whole world

I have never said or even tried to imply that most Pakistanis support extremism, when the reality is quite different. However, there is a rise of "Islamism" inside Pakistan that puts prioritizing Pakistan down the list. The good news is that the number of people against Islamic extremism has risen much more as well, & awareness in the masses has increased. I think we need to think of ourselves as Pakistanis first, & we need to think beyond this narrow Islamist spectrum, that all Muslims from all nations are our brothers. It is Muslims that are killing Muslims all over the world, that are doing despicable things against one another. These are not the things brothers do to each other. Brothers do not blow up each other, or support the killing of innocent non-Muslim Pakistanis. Nations like America have used Saudi Arabia to exert their (negative) influence over the Muslim world. The Muslim extremist groups in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kosovo, Bosnia & most in the Middle East are the very result of the actions of the US in the past & the present. I agree that there should be no divisions between Pakistanis, & that protecting the interests of Pakistan should be the number one priority of Pakistanis.

 

[skylab20]

I have never said or even tried to imply that most Pakistanis support extremism, when the reality is quite different. However, there is a rise of "Islamism" inside Pakistan that puts prioritizing Pakistan down the list. I think we need to think of ourselves as Pakistanis first, & we need to think beyond this narrow Islamist concept, that all Muslims from all nations are our brothers. It is Muslims that are killing Muslims all over the world, that are doing despicable things against one another. These are not the things brothers do to each other. Brothers do not blow up each other, or support the killing of innocent non-Muslim Pakistanis. Nations like America have used Saudi Arabia to exert their (negative) influence over the Muslim world. The Muslim extremist groups in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, & most in the Middle East are the very result of the actions of the US in the past & the present. I agree that there should be no divisions between Pakistanis, & that protecting the interests of Pakistan should be the number one priority of Pakistanis. Let God be the Judge of all.

no 'islamist' pakistani is not prioritising pakistan, we all live in pakistan, and to think beyond we need to get our homes in order, i know there are some illeterate pakistanis out htere, but then again its not about setting the priorities of pakistanis right, they are born to know about what their priorities are, we need to get educated so that we dont think of this world as of a fairy tale and that everything is fine

i think we dont need to disturb the foundations our society and our country is based on, if we disturb it, we will become a confused nation, or nation with no identity or mixed identity, we need to bring education and awareness to more and more people and to get the mindset of zamindaari(feudal system) and slavery out, pakistanis are slaves to 5% ellite class people, the mindset that we need to learn english in order to succeed, mindset that without foregn help we cant prosper, and that brtish colonial mindset from govt, military and people, mindset that urdu is our national language but english is our official language, if we bring urdu into all sorts of life, we will go into medieval times, now thats unpatriotic, we should educate people in urdu medium which is our laguage and not english medium which is a total foreign language, instead of wiping islamiat from education system we should encourage pakistanis to learn more and more islam so they know what real islam is not the islam of talibans etc

 

[lem34]

In Iraq formerly low-level terrorists were given jobs guarding their neighborhoods. Once everything was quiet then the Iraqi economy and polity could move forward.

"Worst"? You are envious that Americans can take pride in their army's efforts, whereas Pakistanis cannot honestly do the same for theirs?

Well, I think Americans' concern for the cost of the war and soldier's lives far outweighs "pride". Just because you have certain values doesn't mean many Americans share them, at least not to the same extent.

Your armies attack where they have no chance of getting killed. Pakistan army isi put their lives at risk.

We are proud of pak army and isi.

 

[Tshering22]

1= tel US to mind there own business

They virtually manage your economy and your politicians. SO I don't think that is possible, buddy.

2= mutual defense pact with china

Two unequals can never be equal. Did the USA treat you the same way as it does to Russia or other powers? Never. They were in 60s & 70s what China is to you today in terms of allies. Rewind to that era and ask someone of that generation and see.

3= mutual defense pact with iran

With what result? Defense cooperation with Iran when compared to USA will get you nowhere. USA uses you agreed, but they give you goodies too. Iran is so unpredictable with their foreign policy. You've seen how they are undecided with China, Russia, once USA and others who tried forming alliance with them. So think before you consider this step.

4= mutual defense pact with turkey

A sensible decision. Turkey maybe a friendly and independent nation, but their defense policy revolves around NATO policies. Getting against USA will not get you a major strategic gain vis a vis Turkey. Iran and friendly neighbourhood policy of Turkey might be her own choice but it is limited by certain limitations that will get you little returns compared to US AND Turkey combined.

5= get out of WOT

Not possible; your location, your border with Afghanistan and your current internal situation. It is just like saying you could have avoided dealing with the Soviet-Afghan war. In fact that was possible; but forcing yourself to go out of WOT will not be pleasant.

6= talk to those who are pakistani and crush the rest of terrorist

That would be impossible with a significant population like yours.

7= take the PA out of civilian areas

The whole point your soldiers are stationed in civilian zones is because there are problems these days. Some areas are fine like main metropolitan cities but removing everyone from all the restive regions will cause chaos.

8= make it compulsory for every 18 to 21 year old to serve in armed forces for 3 years

Conscription means you need a big budget. It is suitable for someone with a small population. Most European countries don't have half the population you have. Hence they got conscription. Arming and training all the youth would be very very difficult. Getting something like our NCC mandatory would be good. It would nationalize the mentality of Pakistanis. It is like a civilian version of conscription and army.

9= declare a first use of nukes policy

You already have that. Even if you explicitly state it, your nukes are only against us. You can do nothing to USA or even most West European countries due to range issues.

10= push for a regional block for china pakistan iran and turkey

EU exists because of a common platform. There is more to a bloc than just religion and similarity of cultures. Turkey is prosperous, Iran is also economically sound but you are not. This would create some serious issues in balancing the bloc. NATO is a military bloc because economic stability and similarity exists in most NATO nations with USA. That is not possible in this case. Remember United Arab Republic? The alliance between Syria, Jordan and Egypt? And that too when all three were Arabs.

11= make direct road and rail links between beijing islamabad tehran and istambul

Please refer to my previous point. China is at a totally different plane than combined you three. I am not criticizing you; it is a genuine matter to be looked into.

12= abolish the visa restrictions between the four countries

Migration would become a big irritant in relationship. Turkey has an excellent economy, which will trigger massive immigrant issues between your nation and theirs. China will also face the same thing. Controlled migration like now is different from what would happen if visa is restricted. Again NATO/EU alliance has those sort of facilities because all of them are at the same plane. If Pakistan and Iran were like Turkey and China, this would be possible.

13= ablish the trade based in dollars and change it to yuan or gold or commodity exchange

Yuan is restricted even now. It is not having so much reserve compared to what dollar is worldwide. That would destroy your economy further by imbalancing the Pakistani Rupee, Iranian Toman and Turkish Lira.

 

[skylab20]

They virtually manage your economy

US manages our economy, LOL dude, thats why we need to get US out, do you understand now??

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

i know indians love money but i think u didnt read these

The President said the colours of Pakistan and Turkish flags may be different, but the symbols of the crescent and the star are the same.

“From Ankara to Islamabad, from Konya to Multan and from Kayseri to Larkana, we are connected with a common bond of love and brotherhood. Indeed we are One Nation living in Two States”, he remarked.

The President said the people of Pakistan and Turkey have stood shoulder to shoulder since their birth, adding: “We rejoice on our achievements and we feel the pain when the other suffers.”

“Today, we remain united for a better tomorrow”, he added.

The President termed his detailed discussions with President Gul as “useful” and said: “We have agreed to give a strategic direction to our economic relations.”

The President said Turkey has been a cradle of civilisation, learning and innovative thinking, adding, throughout history, it has been a seat of great empires and today, it stands tall in the comity of nations.”

He congratulated President Gul and Prime Minister Erdogan for their bold leadership to make Turkey a shining example for others.

“We in Pakistan admire you and are proud of your achievements,” he added.

The President referred to and termed the events of the past few weeks in North Africa, Middle East and the Gulf as “a cause of great concern” and said: “They call for our close attention.”

“We have come at a crossroads of history. We are witnessing a profound change in the heartland of the Muslim world,” he said and recalled that his wife Shaheed Mohtarma Benazir had once said: “Countries descend into darkness when pluralism is disrupted, when diversity is suppressed and when one man directs the destiny of millions.”

The President said, “The time has come for reflection and introspection. The well-being of our people should be our foremost priority. The future of our people should be shaped by their will and aspirations.”

He congratulated Turkey for taking a leadership and a principled role in these challenging times.

The President said like Turkey, Pakistan wants stability and peace in the region. “Peace and stability that is based on respect for the unity, territorial integrity and sovereignty of these states.”

He said in Pakistan, the government is mindful of its responsibilities to the people and the nation.

“Today we are confronted with multiple challenges. These are challenges of terrorism, extremism, flood disaster and energy shortages, but the democratically elected government is determined to turn these challenges into opportunities.î

The President said the government of Pakistan desires peace, stability and prosperity in our region. “We have opened a new chapter of positive engagement with Afghanistan. It is an engagement that is based on mutual trust and confidence,” he added.

“We have also embarked on a purposeful dialogue with India. We want to have a dialogue that is aimed at resolving all our outstanding issues,” he mentioned.

The President also thanked President Gul for honouring him with the prestigious “Devlet Nishan” and said: “It is an honour and a symbol of exemplary ties between Pakistan and Turkey.”

“Turkey has a very special place in my heart. I have been coming here for many years now. I have fond memories of my earlier visits,” the President said and especially recalled his visits with his late wife Shaheed Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto.

“Each time I come to Turkey, I am reminded of the special nature of our relations,” he added.

In response to a question at a joint press conference, President Abdullah Gul and President Asif Ali Zardari made the pledges to support for initiatives to stabilise conflict-torn Afghanistan, including efforts for dialogue with the Taliban. They said: ì2011 is a very critical year for Afghanistan, as the foreign troops will begin to withdraw. We are using all our capabilities to secure Afghanistan’s unity and integrity.”

You should see what the people of your so called ally countries really think about you ,

U.S. Image in Pakistan Falls No Further Following bin Laden Killing | Pew Global Attitudes Project

 

[Zeeshan360]

US manages our economy, LOL dude, thats why we need to get US out, do you understand now??

He meant economy of u r politicians

 

[skylab20]

He meant economy of u r politicians

thats so true and abs funny dude

 

[ahmed_naj]

to everyone singing the 'get out of WOT' tune do you think the taliban will put down their arms and become patriotic and productive citizens of society? And as long as there are militants in Afghanistan Pakistan will remain unstable. I will never understand how anti-americanism screws up our people so much that it actually takes them 9 years to realise that blowing up public places and beheading people is just plain f*cking wrong.

 

[graphican]

US is also going to accept Taliban "as their new lords".. so let them be "ours".. we have been living with these clans centuries after centuries and we understand what they want and how to control them without killing them or getting killed.

Its time to start accepting reality.. and finally so.

 

[ahmed_naj]

we have been living with these clans centuries after centuries and we understand what they want and how to control them without killing them or getting killed.

Well if that was the case then how the heck did we allow talibanism to seep into pakistan?

US is also going to accept Taliban "as their new lords".. so let them be "ours"

Karzai said he wants to start talks and reconciliation there is not going to be acceptance "as their new lords".

Karzai: Afghan youth to lead as US troops go
Karzai: Afghan youth to lead as US troops go - Forbes.com

 

[@nline]

Americans go home and STOP killing innocent people in Pakistan & Afghanistan!
Go home!

 

[muse]

As I have gone through this thread, I really don't know or understand what it means to put Pakistan first, how is it done?