The Great Liberal Fallacy

[war&peace]

so answer me just one question: Miracles that break the Laws of Physics are possible?

A horse can fly off into heaven with a prophet riding it when just above the oxygen layer, a horse won't survive....a horse can survive the UV radiation of space with 7the century armour or protection?


A man on earth can split the moon into two with his fingers? How is his force transferred to there? How come a man has so much strength he can break a heavenly object into two?

Answer these questions and we end it, as any spotlight on Islam may invite ban for both of us


I am just saying if you are not an atheist/agnostic stop criticizing other religions

I can answer them all, just open an appropriate thread and tag me.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

I can answer them all, just open an appropriate thread and tag me.

Leave it...for me personally it has been answered a decade ago with the great debates on the possibilities of miracles between Scientists and Muslims that are on youtube

I am more interested in tackling the sophistacated Hindu/Buddhist biases...The Christian/Muslim/Jewish biases have been effectively dealt with by scientists on Youtube debates...anyways thanks for the convo, have a great evening

 

[ranjeet]

Dada...produce the Brahma astras and amritas ----and I will piss on the Scientific Revolution--Promise

show me the blueprints and engineering plans for nuclear reactors in Mahabharata and I will believe that Kururkshetra Yuddha (really Battle of the Ten Kings) employed nuclear warfare

The whole Hindu/Dharmic/Religious worldviews are based on some extra-ordinary claims..well extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences...may be not for the masses but for the scientific community...

and now some vague forced similarity between religious verses and the description portion of scientific theories donot count...show me Maxwell's equations in the Bhagavad Gita and detailed description of the double helix molecule in the Katha Upanishad---then it might spark mine or any scientist's interest



As long as the Hindus/Muslims/Dharmics/Spiritualists are not coming up with their body of evidence, the Scientific Worldview remains the ONLY JUST ONE on offer---I am sorry

As you yourself said Science will succeed in "general liberal atmosphere", One of the main pillar of liberal societies is freedom of speech, where one can express and exchange his/her views and opinions without fear or restrictions, it's today's liberals who are trying to curtail this "general liberal atmosphere" in universities, public discourse and in general. When center of learning start curtailing freedom of speech based on political leanings of the speaker one has to stop and wonder has liberalism ran its course?


From the article

PROLOGUE: In April of 2016, UC Berkeley cancelled Milo Yiannopoulos’ planned speech in response to campus protests. For an institution that prides itself on its long and stellar liberal legacy—the centerpiece of which is the freedom to hold and express a view, irrespective of its political persuasion—the Rubicon was silently crossed.

 

[war&peace]

Leave it...for me personally it has been answered a decade ago with the great debates on the possibilities of miracles between Scientists and Muslims that are on youtube

I am more interested in tackling the sophistacated Hindu/Buddhist biases...The Christian/Muslim/Jewish biases have been effectively dealt with by scientists on Youtube debates...anyways thanks for the convo, have a great evening

So sad, you're quitting too early.. I was really looking forward to present my simple logic and evidence being a student of science, a professional and a proud Muslim.

Whenever you are in a mood for some debate, you can contact me if I'm on the forum, I will try to respond.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

As you yourself said Science will succeed in "general liberal atmosphere", One of the main pillar of liberal societies is freedom of speech, where one can express and exchange his/her views and opinions without fear or restrictions, it's today's liberals who are trying to curtail this "general liberal atmosphere" in universities, public discourse and in general. When center of learning start curtailing freedom of speech based on political leanings of the speaker one has to stop and wonder has liberalism ran its course?


From the article

PROLOGUE: In April of 2016, UC Berkeley cancelled Milo Yiannopoulos’ planned speech in response to campus protests. For an institution that prides itself on its long and stellar liberal legacy—the centerpiece of which is the freedom to hold and express a view, irrespective of its political persuasion—the Rubicon was silently crossed.

Agreed

The University Humanities departments are bastions of Left Wing..they tend to be female heavy...and being light on coursework and in terms of stress those subjects put on the mind, they have ample free time...this lets them drive the political agenda of the Universities

But the Science and Engineering departments are inhumane in terms of courseload on students and researchers and they have little enthusiasm or free time to engage in issues of social importance...on top of that these male heavy departments have a much higher degree of autism (tendency to think in terms of numbers,structures and iterations and no idea whatsoever how the minds of fellow human beings function..I was forced by my wife to psychologists and was finally diagnosed with autism at the age of 30)


The autism heavy, male heavy science departments discovered difference in abilities and intelligence of the various races, without realizing the social consequences...and they left a lot of room to the leftists to hijack those research findings and demonize science altogether as racist, patriarchal and a domain of "famous dead white men"



West is at a critical point in history...the Scientific genius of a few men allowed the mediocre majority to study literature and law and still make way way more than what a top engineer in India would make....(India still makes some kick-*** products targeted to low income countries..like the legendary Pulsar series of low capacity, air-cooled bonafide sport bikes)


Now these people are very much aware of their shortcomings and are fighting against the scientific establishment by branding it as racist, just because science showed difference in intelligence and that black men cannot do science as well as white men



The Modern Political Fight is basically a fight between people who understand and master science and those who cannot


A fight between the Nerds and the Losers


PS: I consider the Modern Historical Method part of the Scientific Method..without the modern Historical Method I would have gone insane or committed suicide...as an autist I could not reconcile the history given down by Dharmic traditions with the History proposed by Vivekananda, Historiography,Archaeology,genetics,rationality etc etc

 

[ranjeet]

Agreed

The University Humanities departments are bastions of Left Wing..they tend to be female heavy...and being light on coursework and in terms of stress those subjects put on the mind, they have ample free time...this lets them drive the political agenda of the Universities

This article is not about the Nerds but the loud mouthed, self righteous, in your face, pussy hat wearing losers.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

This article is not about the Nerds but the loud mouthed, self righteous, in your face, pussy hat wearing losers.

Things can only be solved when the Primacy of Science over every other Human Pursuit is re-established

There is Only One Downside to science that I can see: Given free reign Science almost always repeatedly find out difference in intelligence and athletic abilities of the various races/population groups

This information is then either used by Leftists to attack science as the domain of "famous dead white men" or used by rightwing to further their racist agenda


If some sort of safety measure can be created regarding this one aspect, Science is just about perfect....

The last 300 years have been much better for humanity than the preceding 5,000

We went from Horse speed to light speed (Starshot)

While we never ever managed to improve beyond the Malthusian Trap in the previous 5,000...And NO RELIGION could change the social,scientific,technological,medical reality of those 5000 years, anywhere on the planet

 

[Joe Shearer]

You need to curb down on liberal attitudes towards raping women and sh*tting just about anywhere.

This is really offensive.

 

[Pakistani E]

Am I one of the last Classic Liberals left in this world? Oh John Locke, my soul weeps for thee.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Agreed

The University Humanities departments are bastions of Left Wing..they tend to be female heavy...and being light on coursework and in terms of stress those subjects put on the mind, they have ample free time...this lets them drive the political agenda of the Universities

But the Science and Engineering departments are inhumane in terms of courseload on students and researchers and they have little enthusiasm or free time to engage in issues of social importance...on top of that these male heavy departments have a much higher degree of autism (tendency to think in terms of numbers,structures and iterations and no idea whatsoever how the minds of fellow human beings function..I was forced by my wife to psychologists and was finally diagnosed with autism at the age of 30)


The autism heavy, male heavy science departments discovered difference in abilities and intelligence of the various races, without realizing the social consequences...and they left a lot of room to the leftists to hijack those research findings and demonize science altogether as racist, patriarchal and a domain of "famous dead white men"



West is at a critical point in history...the Scientific genius of a few men allowed the mediocre majority to study literature and law and still make way way more than what a top engineer in India would make....(India still makes some kick-*** products targeted to low income countries..like the legendary Pulsar series of low capacity, air-cooled bonafide sport bikes)


Now these people are very much aware of their shortcomings and are fighting against the scientific establishment by branding it as racist, just because science showed difference in intelligence and that black men cannot do science as well as white men



The Modern Political Fight is basically a fight between people who understand and master science and those who cannot


A fight between the Nerds and the Losers


PS: I consider the Modern Historical Method part of the Scientific Method..without the modern Historical Method I would have gone insane or committed suicide...as an autist I could not reconcile the history given down by Dharmic traditions with the History proposed by Vivekananda, Historiography,Archaeology,genetics,rationality etc etc

Damn.

I knew it was too good to be true.

You've lost your balance. Read C. P. Snow's The Two Cultures (let me incentivise you; the full title was The Two Cultures and the Scientific Revolution).

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Damn.

I knew it was too good to be true.

You've lost your balance. Read C. P. Snow's The Two Cultures (let me incentivise you; the full title was The Two Cultures and the Scientific Revolution).

You should shed more light on it in the upcoming "Greatest 25 Books read by each PDFer" thread....meantime I am Just partially reading Alan Cromer's Uncommon Sense:The Heretical Nature of Science


EDIT: started googling it..seems mighty interesting !!!! Thank You!!

Well as an autist (mild though) I was always disbalanced, tending to go into death loop in my brain regarding statements which other people just slide by and let them hang in their brains without ever judging their truth value....The ability of normal people to just let conflicting thoughts and worldviews reside in their brain is something that brought me a sense of wonder, and also an extreme sense of frustration with myself...this makes me much slower and non-responsive in social situations ..the Internet lets me understand human minds in a much more relaxed manner as I can readily bring up the points of debate without offending social norms and mores

 

[pothead]

You are underestimating the phenomenal anti-gravity levitation capabilities of the a hindu yogi
Here is a video clip either from a Pakistani or indian drama

Only problem is that PK did not have guts to be similarly rational about Islam and Christianity.
Only easy targets are ridiculed.

Dada...produce the Brahma astras and amritas ----and I will piss on the Scientific Revolution--Promise

show me the blueprints and engineering plans for nuclear reactors in Mahabharata and I will believe that Kururkshetra Yuddha (really Battle of the Ten Kings) employed nuclear warfare

The whole Hindu/Dharmic/Religious worldviews are based on some extra-ordinary claims..well extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences...may be not for the masses but for the scientific community...

and now some vague forced similarity between religious verses and the description portion of scientific theories donot count...show me Maxwell's equations in the Bhagavad Gita and detailed description of the double helix molecule in the Katha Upanishad---then it might spark mine or any scientist's interest

LOL @ the stupid argument.
Even if we discard the scientific claims in few Hindu texts, Hinduism does not collapse.

1. Hinduism is NOT about the scientific achievements. Our gods did not offer us miracles. They offered us knowledge.
2. Hinduism is NEVER against science. No Hindu was ever burned for claiming a scientific fact.
3. Double helix & Maxwell's equations are red herrings to the argument. They don't need to be present in Gita or Upanishads. The aim of both books is philosophy and not science.
4. That religion and science can not co-exist is a western dogma. The basic tenant of Hinduism is proof. Once an argument is proved, it is never again debated until a new proof emerges. Go and check how Sankaracharya debated and what the rules of debates were.

Hinduism's greatest achievement is NOT our scientific achievements but our philosophy. We are a civilization where an Atheist can be an Hindu. We are people who pray to our god(s) for "Sarve Jana Sukhino Bhavanthu". That single prayer of Hindus should tell us what differentiates us from others.
Stop preaching us.

PS: I consider the Modern Historical Method part of the Scientific Method..without the modern Historical Method I would have gone insane or committed suicide...as an autist I could not reconcile the history given down by Dharmic traditions with the History proposed by Vivekananda, Historiography,Archaeology,genetics,rationality etc etc

That's the beauty.
There is no dogma in India that states you have to reconcile. we are not a 0 or 100% society. You can pick and choose what you want.
India is perhaps the only country where any religious person can pray in which every way he/she likes and believe in what ever weird thing he/she wants to. It is because of our culture and has nothing to do with religion. Culture lasts longer than religion.
And beliefs is a beautiful representation of Indian culture. You are not an odd man out. You are one of the millions of Indians over centuries who probably felt exactly the same way.

 

[Mamluk]

This is really offensive.

Yes.. see *what* I replied to. Anyways, removed.

 

[24 Hours]

tell that to Richard Dawkins,Lawrence Krauss and others..

Ahh, but what about Kenneth R. Miller, Aziz Sancar, Francis S. Collins and others?

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Ahh, but what about Kenneth R. Miller, Aziz Sancar, Francis S. Collins and others?

their religious belief doesnot make them any better scientists, or give them crazy mental superpowers/scientific insights compared to the non-religious ones....their beliefs just donot get in the way of their science as they tightly lock it up when in the lab, Richard Dawkins spoke about it at length...the day we see religious scientists claiming they have access to special scientific knowledge on account of being religious (which is inaccessible to irreligious scientists) is the day we have to take religion seriously