The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Maybe it is incomprehensiable to some that a resolution which ends secret terrorist training camps and such on all sides is sitting there to be used, a clean cut vehicle.

Fair points in the rest of your post, and ones that should be looked into in greater detail, but unless you are willing to call the US founding fathers and those who fought for US independence from the British 'terrorists' I would appreciate you not brand others fighting for freedom and an end to occupation with such a demeaning term.

You know well I am sure the atrocities committed by both sides in the US war for independence.

 

[k_n]

The accession of Princely States was subject to plebiscite under the rules of partition, a point endorsed by the UNSC in its resolutions on Kashmir, and accepted by both India and Pakistan. India carried out a plebiscite in Junagadh after invading it despite the accession of the State to Pakistan - that plebiscite has not yet been honored in J&K, which makes the accession incomplete, and which means the rights of the people of the State remain suspended and violated.

Accession of Princely States was subject to plebiscite or the will of the Ruler ?

Why was the newly formed GOP with Qaid-e-Azam as the Governor General so adamant on sticking to the excercise of the 'free will' by the Nawab of Junagad and not the will of the citizens of the princely state in the decision of chosing either India or Pakistan .

 

[Xeric]

Do you think the resolution passed by Indian Parliament on Jammu & Kashmir dated 22-Feb-1994 asking Pakistan to give back the occupied land is a joke? Then I cannot help.

Yes that's a joke. Probably the joke of the millennium. What is india? A permanent seat holder in the UN? Or a super-power or may be it is The emperor running this world whose words are to be accepted without a flinch?

Just because the 'india' parliament in an isolated and fallacious resolution said something wouldnt mean that it was right. By this definition Pakistan can pass a resolution reclaiming some part of india and that should be guud enough an excuse to send in the forces and rape and butcher the civilians there!

The india resolution stays inside india, no one outside accede to it and it is only guud enough to motivate interneters like you to troll a thread on PDF, nothing more.

 

[Jade]

Yes that's a joke. Probably the joke of the millennium. What is india? A permanent seat holder in the UN? Or a super-power or may be it is The emperor running this world whose words are to be accepted without a flinch?

Just because the 'india' parliament in an isolated and fallacious resolution said something wouldnt mean that it was right. By this definition Pakistan can pass a resolution reclaiming some part of india and that should be guud enough an excuse to send in the forces and rape and butcher the civilians there!

The india resolution stays inside india, no one outside accede to it and it is only guud enough to motivate interneters like you to troll a thread on PDF, nothing more.

What is India? You don’t know; ask your government or your army. They will give you a better picture.

You like it or not the resolution passed inside the Indian parliament is what the GOI is going to follow. If Indian parliament says that J&K is the integral part of India, GOI has no option but to follow the same line

 

[prodevelopment]

You missed one point here - it is india who seeks annexation of Kashmir by force against the will of the people. We did what was guud for the Kashmiri people and we dont see india doing the same.

Actually, you are missing the point here. The person whom I quoted was dreaming about ground realities. I showed those to him.

Regarding the 'Good for Kashmiri people' rant, why don't you go ahead with the plebicite in P O K? I mean, India is the big bad wolf here. Pakistan is the saviour. Won't the polls put a tremendous amount of international pressure on India?

If we keep aside the 'sponsored' polls we would know that india has no face in Kashmir and is merely carrying the stick on the basis of barbarity and nothing else.

Now we don't have any free and fair polls now do we. How do we go by judging the will of the people now? You certainly aren't the most fair judge. Neither am I. It's the best indication that we have at the moment.

You hold 65% of Kashmir and feel pride in it without knowing that this is blood-pride (as in blood diamonds). This is shameful!

You know what i find strange is that the largest democracy claimant not only feel justified and satisfied on occupation of a state by force but also shamelessly propagate the same. But guess what, it isnt something new, if you people can support countries like israel on incidents like raid on freedom flotilla, one can expect any level of bestiality from your likes.

Rant. Ignored.

If you want to debate. Come up with logic and facts. Keep your emotions for your girlfriend.

 

[prodevelopment]

Your argument of 'disputed land' is absolutely void. It has no basis what so ever. It is an indian creation so suite its ego and to make the Kashmir issue linger. By showing the only map of kashmir would make you claims justifiable. Had you claim been legitimate we should have seen some hue and cry from the international community over Azad Kashmir and especially the 'gifting; of territory to China, but in a face-palm to india we dont see that happening.

The international mapping agencies shows NA and whatever as part of Pakistan and has no issues. You tried the same tactics in Siachen (ignored the assessments of agencies like US geological survey which showed Siachen as a Pakistani territory and created a new myth basing of which you ingressed in Siachen) but it didnt work. This time also, you have miserably failed to lay an authoritative claim over our NA and the entire world, less you ofcourse does accede to it. You can keep on harping the flawed tune of NA and 'gifts' but no one's listening.


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i would request the mods that if the indians cant prove the basis of their claim over our NAs, GB etc, they should not be allowed to unfold their self created and self sponsored wet dreams on this board.

There was no international hue and cry about the gifting because the international community does not give a **** about kashmir in general.

And as far as I can see, we have come up with multiple proofs for our claim of NA being a part of the dispute. We have shown you maps from international agencies, twice. You haven't come up with any proofs except your rant.

 

[Skeptic]

Does anyone read what has already been posted here?

The Andorran Model makes the LOC the final boundaries within all parts of Kashmir.

Pakistan, India, and China retain foreign affairs and national security for their respective parts of Kashmir.

The difference is the Kashmiris are allowed to elect a unified, single Parliament which can meet on a rotating basis in each part of Kashmir until some day, maybe, a single capital could be agreed on, which might be generations down the road.

But it would be a start.

Several well intentioned writers on this topic keep digressing and missing the points. If you care about the people of all parts of Kashmir, and you are filled with national pride, all these factors are allowed for under the Andorran Model.

Maybe it is incomprehensiable to some that a resolution which ends secret terrorist training camps and such on all sides is sitting there to be used, a clean cut vehicle.

A single Constitution of all parts of Kashmir is a longer term goal, a non-religious Constitution guaranting rights and protections to all believers of all faiths as well as to those who may choose to believe nothing.

Does anyone read what has already been posted here?
Well Sir, that exactly is the point. We have flogged the horse so many times, more often then not - The saner voices are either unheard or dampened. Generally people on forum such as these are looking to pick up an e-fight and score some points over the oppoent, unfortunately most of the polititions are not much different.

However loud their voices may be in support of Kashmiris, it is only nationalistic pride which is driving their minds. The fact is - No one wants the dispute to be resolved. India for the risk of igniting similar insurgencies in other parts / Losing territory and Pakistan for the fear of the armed fores becoming irrelevant.

I believe the point and solution raised by you can be tweaked to solve the Kashmir issue, but kindly notice the response from forum super-mod - clinching onto straws and raising objection to the term terrorist. My fellow countrymen also are not any better.

I think the model suggested by you is very relevant to the resolution of Kashmir issue and should be taken up for serious discussions. I request a reply from senior Pakistani posters to register their response to this solution rather than nitpicking on the technicalities.

 

[Jade]

i would request the mods that if the indians cant prove the basis of their claim over our NAs, GB etc, they should not be allowed to unfold their self created and self sponsored wet dreams on this board.

Find the links on Indian claims over NA and GB

http://gbpost.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/world-bank-wb-refuses-to-finance-basha-dam-2/

http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article20325.ece

Kashmir conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://afpakwar.com/blog/archives/2664

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgit-Baltistan

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...ashmir-dispute-gilgit-activist_100310830.html

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article47049.ece

 

[Xeric]

Find the link on Indian claims over NA and GB

Kashmir conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki, yeah right!

 

[Xeric]

There was no international hue and cry about the gifting because the international community does not give a **** about kashmir in general.

And as far as I can see, we have come up with multiple proofs for our claim of NA being a part of the dispute. We have shown you maps from international agencies, twice. You haven't come up with any proofs except your rant.

We need not to prove anything. What we want to tell you is on the ground - NA being our part and some area which belonged to is with China.

And the mapS or map? That one which was posted twice - the only glorified map that all the indians are taught in their high schools and which was rubbished by me with the sole reason of incredible source! Voila!

 

[Xeric]

Actually, you are missing the point here. The person whom I quoted was dreaming about ground realities. I showed those to him.

Regarding the 'Good for Kashmiri people' rant, why don't you go ahead with the plebicite in P O K? I mean, India is the big bad wolf here. Pakistan is the saviour. Won't the polls put a tremendous amount of international pressure on India?



Now we don't have any free and fair polls now do we. How do we go by judging the will of the people now? You certainly aren't the most fair judge. Neither am I. It's the best indication that we have at the moment.



Rant. Ignored.

If you want to debate. Come up with logic and facts. Keep your emotions for your girlfriend.

Readers know who is losing his cool

Hitting below the belt is all what a weak and afraid human can do.

 

[Xeric]

Find the links on Indian claims over NA and GB

World Bank (WB) refuses to finance Basha dam The Gilgit-Baltistan Post

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : Gilgit-Baltistan autonomy package wins few friends

Kashmir conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India Lays Claim to Gilgit & Baltistan | America at War

Gilgit-Baltistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan is foreign aggressor in Kashmir dispute: Gilgit activist

The Hindu : News / International : Elections in Gilgit-Baltistan today

i bet you dont know what i am rofling at..!!

 

[prodevelopment]

We need not to prove anything. What we want to tell you is on the ground - NA being our part and some area which belonged to is with China.

Ditto. On the ground buddy, on the ground.

65% of J&K is a part of India on the ground. What was initially with Pakistan was 'gifted away' to China.

On the ground Siachen is with India.

All that matters is on the ground.

And the mapS or map? That one which was posted twice - the only glorified map that all the indians are taught in their high schools and which was rubbished by me with the sole reason of incredible source! Voila!

Errrr.... why don't you show me YOUR map? And from a non-Pakistani source please if possible. I am yet to see YOUR proof.

 

[Jade]

i bet you dont know what i am rofling at..!!

Certainly, I don't know. It is hard to understand you

 

[Xeric]

Errrr.... why don't you show me YOUR map? And from a non-Pakistani source please if possible. I am yet to see YOUR proof.

Do the kasht and google map of Pakistan - face palm!