The Bengal Famine: How the British engineered the worst genocide in human history for profit

[dray]

Lol nice try buddy

Even one of our own most esteemed personalities - Nobel laureate amartya sen has unconditionally dismissed any explicit role of Churchill in creating the famine , in fact with his astute analysis he even argues how the victims were at fault for their own I'll faith. His theories are widely accepted and criticality acclaimed

I'd rather believe a Nobel laureate than some b grade blog writer

First show me that paper of Amartya Sen.

@Sneaker Leave that scoundrel alone, these pathetic chinese trolls are here to destroy every thread with their filth. You do 1/100th of that in chinese section and you will get a straight ban. Open a slightly controversial thread in chinese section, it will be promptly deleted by their hyper-sensitive mod. I don't know, but the members of this particular nation don't behave like normal human beings.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

India never mentions the good things we did, only focus on the negatives, without us there wouldn't be any modern India as we know it today. Even if it did, it will be farrrrr smaller or made of several different independent countries/states from oriental north eastern states of arunachal pradesh/manipur etc who would have been independent or part of china/Burma to Kashmir, khalistan/punjab, Maoist areas etc. Etc.
All these kingdoms/states would not have been part of India today without our rule. we unified India and established a central government/authority with laws and regulations, modernized the army/military, built the worlds most extensive railways to bring the country closer and established a unifying national language. So Indians should also mention all the many good deeds we did, not just the bad ones.
Though i'm not justifying the above unwarranted actions of Churchill.

In 1750's, India's share of World Economy was 23%. The question is, why did it reduced drastically reduced to 4% when it left India during 1940's. This figure wasnt quoted by us. But by a British Universities.

And ya, as for the small kingdoms, independence etc every country was like the same during such times. We might have been living under the Mughals or the Marathas under a single entity if not for British. (However it may or may not be). When the British gained India, Marathas were the dominant force with nearly 60% of the country. If not for British, it "might" have been Marathas ruling from Delhi or Mumbai now.

The railways were never built for Indian people. Were they? It was fast evacuation of loots and spoils of Indian people.

The one thing the british did give us positively was the laws , penal code , courts mechanism, which have helped a modern India. Rest of which does not deserve merit from Indian people

low gdp/capita can be easily explained by winston churchill's quote here :

“Famine or no famine, Indians will breed like rabbits.”

And it's true for all south asia, plus africa as well....chinese are clever, they've realized they need to stop breeding like rabbits, that's how they're doing so much better even after starting off so much worse (mao ze DUNG and his initial nonsense economic plans same as modi's) than south asia.

Had there not have been these famines, today india population would have been maybe 10 billion.....

It's the super high birth rates that are cause of all economic problems in south asia, whether you like to accept it or not....

If we had even try that options(in Pakistan as well), I dont think the thakedars of Islam would have received it in good spirits

 

[magudi]

First show me that paper of Amartya Sen.

.

His work : http://www.google.co.in/url?q=http:...eS8D-s&usg=AFQjCNE5Jj4IN3OyMpTQXGtRCfj-IfCINA


Flaw : http://www.bowbrick.org.uk/Famine%20papers/ALLDOC.HTM

Why do you think this Macaulay putra got Nobel? It was only for cosying upto white masters and absolving them of all wrong doings

 

[dray]

In 1750's, India's share of World Economy was 23%. The question is, why did it reduced drastically reduced to 4% when it left India during 1940's. This figure wasnt quoted by us. But by a British Universities.

And ya, as for the small kingdoms, independence etc every country was like the same during such times. We might have been living under the Mughals or the Marathas under a single entity if not for British. (However it may or may not be). When the British gained India, Marathas were the dominant force with nearly 60% of the country. If not for British, it "might" have been Marathas ruling from Delhi or Mumbai now.

The railways were never built for Indian people. Were they? It was fast evacuation of loots and spoils of Indian people.

The one thing the british did give us positively was the laws , penal code , courts mechanism, which have helped a modern India. Rest of which does not deserve merit from Indian people



If we had even try that options(in Pakistan as well), I dont think the thakedars of Islam would have received it in good spirits

I don't think we would have been ruled by Marathas or any other monarch today, with nation states becoming predomonent in other parts of the world, we would have formed political parties and become either a democracy (more likely) or a socialist country like rest of the world, with our own constitution. That was the demand of the time.

Those countries that weren't a British colony did form nation states through political means with their own constitution and laws, so called British contribution is highly overrated and those things would have happened even without them.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I don't think we would have been ruled by Marathas or any other monarch today, with nation states becoming predomonent in other parts of the world, we would have formed political parties and become either a democracy (more likely) or a socialist country like rest of the world, with our own constitution. That was the demand of the time.

Those countries that weren't a British colony did form nation states through political means with their own constitution and laws, so called British contribution is highly overrated and those things would have happened even without them.

Not today. But by my estimation, sentimental nature of Indians, I believe Marathas would(may) have ruled united India till 1975. After which democracy would have taken place. And also if not for British, NWFP and Balochistan would never have been in India. They might have been part of Afghan and Iran territories by now

 

[scorpionx]

It was only for cosying upto white masters and absolving them of all wrong doings

Ok. Got your point. And I seriously wonder after reading the two links you posted you really think that he absolved his white masters from all doings? I have not read his Poverty and Famines but in his Idea of Justice he gives a brief analysis of '43 famine.

He mainly attributes the causes of 43' famine on governmental oppressive policies such as imposed (and often voluntary) media silence, reckless buying of large scale food grains out of rural Bengal after which with low and stationary income people could not buy rice for themselves when price exploded, suspension of trade of rice between Indian provinces and continuance of extracting food grains 'out of Bengal', ignoring the exploding demand.

Sen's argument primarily defies the common notion that behind every famine food scarcity has to play a vital role. The food supply in 1943 was only 5% lower than the last five year's average and 13% higher than 1941. There was no famine in 1941!! He says despite there was no particular decline in food output, government ignored the fact that its demand had radically expanded for their very own war policy. He also attributes the massive human causalities to consequences of all Famines like cholera, small pox and malaria.

So, kindly delve into little deep before you accuse him of 'cosying upto white masters and absolving them of wrong doings'.

 

[coffee_cup]

India never mentions the good things we did, only focus on the negatives, without us there wouldn't be any modern India as we know it today. Even if it did, it will be farrrrr smaller or made of several different independent countries/states from oriental north eastern states of arunachal pradesh/manipur etc who would have been independent or part of china/Burma to Kashmir, khalistan/punjab, Maoist areas etc. Etc.
All these kingdoms/states would not have been part of India today without our rule. we unified India and established a central government/authority with laws and regulations, modernized the army/military, built the worlds most extensive railways to bring the country closer and established a unifying national language. So Indians should also mention all the many good deeds we did, not just the bad ones.
Though i'm not justifying the above unwarranted actions of Churchill.

So the world should forget all the genocides that British have done all over the world?

What an argument! What next? Someone coming here and arguing about remembering "good things" that Hitler has done and forget the "negatives"?

Briton WILL HAVE to answer one day about all the genocides it has carried around the world. You should be ashamed, apologize and compensate all those countries you have plundered around the world!

 

[Manas]

Countries Compared by Economy > GDP per capita in 1950. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
Countries Compared by Economy > GDP per capita. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
Look at these statistics on GDP per capita in 1950 versus today.
No statistics on Britain in 1950 but lets assume our living standards were roughly the same as France
1950
India
$597.00
France
$5,221.00
2012
India
$1,489.24
Britain
$38,514.46
It's pretty clear that the differences in living standards that exist today cannot be explained by colonialism.

You are comparing war ravaged post world war economy of Europe with India .

Okay , But you must know after 150 years of great British colonialism India was left with population whose literacy rate stood at a grand total of 12% in year 1950 just after our independence.

And you expect those poor illiterates would achieve economic miracles in the next 50 years while you survived on more than 200yrs of blood sucking of slave labors from British colonies in Asia and Africa to enrich yourself and got the status of a developed state.

 

[Anees]

Don't worry about HK, worry about the failure that is India.

Indians are incapable of running India which is why Anglo-Saxons should be running India to develop India. Indians are not interested in development. Indians are more interested in religion and fairytale predictions of superpower by 2020 and white servants by 2030.

2.9 million trapped in modern-day slavery in China, 30 million worldwide | South China Morning Post

2.9 million trapped in modern-day slavery in China, 30 million worldwide

Foundation's study finds 2.9 million Chinese and 14 million Indians are modern-day slaves, though problem is most prevalent in Africa

 

[Faiez]

If we had even try that options(in Pakistan as well), I dont think the thakedars of Islam would have received it in good spirits

It's not about enforcing it through the law using danda. It's about people voluntarily not breeding like rabits like developed countries and that's probably never gonna happen in South Asia.

 

[magudi]

Ok. Got your point. And I seriously wonder after reading the two links you posted you really think that he absolved his white masters from all doings? I have not read his Poverty and Famines but in his Idea of Justice he gives a brief analysis of '43 famine.

He mainly attributes the causes of 43' famine on governmental oppressive policies such as imposed (and often voluntary media silence), reckless buying of large scale food grains out of rural Bengal after which with low and stationary income people could not buy rice for themselves when price exploded, suspension of trade of rice between Indian provinces and continuance of extracting food grains 'out of Bengal', ignoring the exploding demand.

Sen's argument primarily defies the common notion that behind every famine food scarcity has to play a vital role. He says despite there was no particular decline in food output, government ignored the fact that its demand had radically expanded for their very own war policy.

So, kindly delve into little deep before you accuse him of 'cosying upto white masters and absolving them of wrong doings'.

Excuse me for that sir,my prejudice for sen and his antics might well be clouding my aptitude for rational judgement.


As for' poverty and famines' it was a part of our curriculum but i got only 'C' for a critique of his entitlement driven notion of alleviating deprivation.

 

[my2cents]

Don't worry about HK, worry about the failure that is India.

Indians are incapable of running India which is why Anglo-Saxons should be running India to develop India. Indians are not interested in development. Indians are more interested in religion and fairytale predictions of superpower by 2020 and white servants by 2030.

When you stop worrying about INDIA, we will stop worrying about Tibet, HK and Taiwan. LOL

 

[scorpionx]

Excuse me for that sir,my prejudice for sen and his antics might well be clouding my aptitude for rational judgement.


As for' poverty and famines' it was a part of our curriculum but i got only 'C' for a critique of his entitlement driven notion of alleviating deprivation.

I find his analysis far more accurate and contrary to your previous assertion I find him more critical about the role of the British than any other scholar for the fact that he pointed out to us that despite being a land of abundant food grains the British managed to 'kill' three to four million people of starvation and epidemics. I have not read his Poverty and Famines before and thanks to you that I got my hand on this book after reading your post.

 

[dray]

You are comparing war ravaged post world war economy of Europe with India .

Okay , But you must know after 150 years of great British colonialism India was left with population whose literacy rate stood at a grand total of 12% in year 1950 just after our independence.

And you expect those poor illiterates would achieve economic miracles in the next 50 years while you survived on more than 200yrs of blood sucking of slave labors from British colonies in Asia and Africa to enrich yourself and got the status of a developed state.

That too, he is quoting wrong/incomplete data, check post no.11 in 1st page for correct data.

low gdp/capita can be easily explained by winston churchill's quote here :

“Famine or no famine, Indians will breed like rabbits.”

And it's true for all south asia, plus africa as well....chinese are clever, they've realized they need to stop breeding like rabbits, that's how they're doing so much better even after starting off so much worse (mao ze DUNG and his initial nonsense economic plans same as modi's) than south asia.

Had there not have been these famines, today india population would have been maybe 10 billion.....

It's the super high birth rates that are cause of all economic problems in south asia, whether you like to accept it or not....

Clever or not, China is the most populous country in the world! And the stories of forced abortions (even at very advanced stages of pregnancy) in that country is rather horrific.

It's not that there was no population control measures in India, and the population growth rates have also reduced significantly and stabilizing. The only difference is that China adopted a forced method, and we are doing it in a more humane manner by educating and counselling the people about the benefits of having fewer children. Rural health centres with limited resources are doing a great job in this area.

His work : http://www.google.co.in/url?q=http:...eS8D-s&usg=AFQjCNE5Jj4IN3OyMpTQXGtRCfj-IfCINA


Flaw : http://www.bowbrick.org.uk/Famine%20papers/ALLDOC.HTM

Why do you think this Macaulay putra got Nobel? It was only for cosying upto white masters and absolving them of all wrong doings

That's some serious reading, I have started reading it, and will need some time to finish it and grasp it before I can comment on it! Thanks for the links.

 

[UKBengali]

@Rain Man :

Great topic and interesting read.