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Tempest | the UK's Next Generation Fighter | Updates & Discussions

A few things stand out to me, besides the fact that it looks pretty cool even though it is a mockup.

1) First thing I noticed is that it's not a tailless design, but an "elevator-less" one, or one that doesn't have horizontal stabilizers. None of the current 5th gens out there to date are like that, not even the J-20 since it's canards basically function almost exactly like H-stabs. The only other platform that was anywhere close to this design was the YF-23, except that had full stabilators that were angled a lot more than the canted stabs on this aircraft.

2) The other very cool aspect is what he mentioned that it can be operated in the manned or unmanned scenario. This is definitely something new that hasn't been done yet.

3) They're looking for partners for the program which is interesting. So they're going about it in a similar fashion as the joint strike fighter program of the F-35 which makes a lot of sense in this day and age. It will be interesting to see who those partners end up being.
KSA is in.. it was stated during the signing of the new 48 Typhoons deal..

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/saudis-eye-drones-in-typhoon-deal-6sm8fl7tr
 
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KSA is in.. it was stated during the signing of the new 48 Typhoons deal..

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/saudis-eye-drones-in-typhoon-deal-6sm8fl7tr

"next generation fighter and drone" sounds exactly like what this thing is.
It would be quite the thing if they developed each aircraft to be able to operate in both modes, sort of by a simple switch and few other quick adjustments and not certain aircraft to be only manned and others only unmanned. To have that quick conversion flexibility within each platform would be a huge advantage vs specialized and separately dedicated versions.
 
"next generation fighter and drone" sounds exactly like what this thing is.
It would be quite the thing if they developed each aircraft to be able to operate in both modes, sort of by a simple switch and few other quick adjustments and not certain aircraft to be only manned and others only unmanned. To have that quick conversion flexibility within each platform would be a huge advantage vs specialized and separately dedicated versions.
That where AI comes in.. but most likely that there will be 2 different versions.. Where the unmanned one will assist the manned one..or even the latter commanding a squadron of the former..

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BAE's Taranis jet can can avoid radar, doesn't need a pilot and can even perform air-to-air combat.

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Here is a good read to get a preliminary idea of the future tech that might be involved in 6th generation fighters both manned and unmanned:

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Last updated: 21 November 2017, 10:06 GMT

Unmanned aerial vehicles, known as drones, are changing the face of combat.
Whether they’re being used for surveillance or undertaking military offensives, the increased use of military drones means we’re heading towards a future where pilots keep their feet on the ground in mission control.

Britain is at the centre of the race to create the ultimate unmanned, undetectable aircraft. Here’s what you need to know about Taranis.
What is Taranis?

Named after the Celtic god of thunder, Taranis is an unmanned aerial combat vehicle drone with stealth capabilities, built by BAE Systems for the MoD. The delta-winged, finless craft was unveiled in 2010 and made a number secretive test flights between 2013 and 2015. The cost of the programme is now thought to be in excess of £200 million.
What is its purpose?

The Taranis stealth drone was designed to demonstrate multiple surveillance and combat tasks that help shape the future of drone design. Tests conducted in the Australian desert have included complete stealth flight and simulated weapons release tests.
The video below shows its first test flight.


A post on the BAE website explains: “The aircraft was designed to demonstrate the UK’s ability to create an unmanned air system which, under the control of a human operator, is capable of undertaking sustained surveillance, marking targets, gathering intelligence, deterring adversaries and carrying out strikes in hostile territory.”
Will Taranis see combat?

No. The Taranis drone was built for demonstration purposes only, but it will inspire a fleet of aircraft that will someday see battle. However, as a result of the test, BAE says “the UK has developed a significant lead in understanding unmanned aircraft which could strike with precision over a long range whilst remaining undetected”.
How fast can Taranis fly?

The Taranis stealth drone, which has a wingspan of 10 metres, can hit speeds of 700mph - exceptionally close to breaking the sound barrier. If a supersonic, pilotless plane, undetectable by radar and carrying payload of weapons sounds scary, that’s because it is.

How is Taranis flown?

Taranis is flown by a specially trained ‘pilot’ who can manually control the craft from a remote location. However, it does have an autonomous flight mode in which it is trusted to ‘think’ and carry out missions of its own accord.
“It can self-navigate within a boundary of set constraints,” Jon Wiggall, the lead flight engineer said of Taranis earlier this year.
“It does have limitations on what we give it in the mission plan – it can only fly in certain areas – but it does think for itself, it will navigate, and it will search for targets.”
There’s also an automatic mode where it is programmed to follow a flight path.

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How does it fly under the radar?

There are a number of factors involved in the meeting of the stealth challenge, including the design and materials used in constructions.
The drone uses a secretive communication system that enables it to communicate with home base without giving away its position to would-be enemies.
BAE engineers were forced to redesign the engine inlet and exhaust in order to stop the engine’s thermal image betraying its presence to enemy radar. Conrad Banks, Rolls-Royce's chief engineer said in 2014 it was about “minimising any sign there is an engine there”.

But can Taranis achieve true stealth capability?

In May this year, Paddy Bourne, chief engineer for UCAVs at BAE refused to confirm whether Taranis had been able to completely avoid radar detection during tests. Referring to the Ministry of Defence, he said “the customer is very happy.”
What’s next for Taranis?

Right now it appears as though Taranis’s flying career is over. The data acquired from the trio of test flights is currently being analysed, and that knowledge will be fed into the development of new drones under the Anglo-French Future Combat Air System (AFFCAS). It’ll also inform how the RAF will use manned and unmanned jets in future combat situations.
So, what is the AFFCAS?

Britain and the EU may be breaking up, but we’re still playing nice with France when it comes to security. In March, following the completion of a feasibility study, the two countries announced a £1.5 billion bilateral agreement to build prototype combat drones. Full-scale development will begin in 2017.

http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/future-tech/taranis-unmanned-aerial-vehicle-stealth-11364110510493
 
one phone call from uncle sam will get this project delayed or cancelled and money diverted into buying F-35.
 
That where AI comes in.. but most likely that there will be 2 different versions.. Where the unmanned one will assist the manned one..or even the latter commanding a squadron of the former..

But that's not what he mentioned in the presentation, big bro. He wasn't referring to the Tempest commanding slave drones. He said "this aircraft will operate in the manned and unmanned versions."

That's what I was referring to when I mentioned if a single aircraft can switch to either role or will there be dedicated aircraft for both roles. The former sounds much more exciting than the latter, although that would be pretty cool as well, even somewhat revolutionary.
 
one phone call from uncle sam will get this project delayed or cancelled and money diverted into buying F-35.

Britain has always used its own jets. From Lightning in the 1950s to Jaguar in the 1970s to Tornado in the 1980s to Typhoon from 2000s onward. America cannot make Britain use American jets like America makes Canada and Israel do.
 
This project will happen and it will succeed because if it doesnt, then the overall British Aerospace industry will suffer and lose its competitive edge.

As for the Russians, its been a long long time since they produced something useful as most of what they have is Soviet Era designs, that includes the Su27 and Mig29 series. The Su-57 has been a failure and if recent reports are to be believed, they have cancelled the project. How it looks is irrevelant !!!

Tempest will have an overseas market, especially the Middle East where the Americans will not sell stealth, but we in the UK will as potentially Turkey. The fact that BAe has its finger in both the TFX programme and Tempest is excellent and will help increase the depth of skill and talent within BAe. All we need is to get the Swedes and Japanese on board, and game on ( though i dont see Japan as they are in the USA shop ).

I just hope that BAe can sort out a Hawk replacement as we have sold alot of Hawks into the world and we can do the same with its replacement.

Personally, I think Su-57 looks better. Su-57 has AESA in the back, in the front, on both sides. Plus, it's got IRST that Tempest lacks.

Tempest will mostly likely have IRST. If you look at the early mockups of the F35 versus what has been delivered, you will see the addition of technology as well. This prototype is a concept, and subject to improvement.
 
one phone call from uncle sam will get this project delayed or cancelled and money diverted into buying F-35.
100% right, UK doesn't have the muscle , neither financial nor political to pull this stunt alone. Now that they won't be a partner in EU defence effort this Tempest will be pitched against US on one hand and EU on the other, not to mention the Chinese, Russian, Japanese, South Korean and Turkish upcoming models in a similer range. This is just a road show from a dwindling world power

This project will happen and it will succeed because if it doesnt, then the overall British Aerospace industry will suffer and lose its competitive edge.

As for the Russians, its been a long long time since they produced something useful as most of what they have is Soviet Era designs, that includes the Su27 and Mig29 series. The Su-57 has been a failure and if recent reports are to be believed, they have cancelled the project. How it looks is irrevelant !!!
 
100% right, UK doesn't have the muscle , neither financial nor political to pull this stunt alone. Now that they won't be a partner in EU defence effort this Tempest will be pitched against US on one hand and EU on the other, not to mention the Chinese, Russian, Japanese, South Korean and Turkish upcoming models in a similer range. This is just a road show from a dwindling world power

Utter rubbish. If Turkey(with a smaller economy) is attempting to produce a similar category of fighter, then why the hell cant the UK??? Oh dear.. what a silly statement you have made !! As for the Russians, the last time they produced something useful was when they were part of the Soviet Union. Its all been derivative dog poo ever since.

South Korea has a smaller economy and an inferior military industry, yet you think they can do a better job than the UK? Oh dear.. what a silly statement you have made !!

Japan has just waived the white flag as they donot have the capability or background to produce their fighter. They will either join a USA programme, or the UK one...

The Chinese are a real deal and becoming an aviation power like the USA.

The jury is out on the EU programme, the French may know what they are doing but having Germany as an industrial partner has put them 2 steps behind already on that show.
 
Utter rubbish. If Turkey(with a smaller economy) is attempting to produce a similar category of fighter, then why the hell cant the UK??? Oh dear.. what a silly statement you have made !! As for the Russians, the last time they produced something useful was when they were part of the Soviet Union. Its all been derivative dog poo ever since.

South Korea has a smaller economy and an inferior military industry, yet you think they can do a better job than the UK? Oh dear.. what a silly statement you have made !!

Japan has just waived the white flag as they donot have the capability or background to produce their fighter. They will either join a USA programme, or the UK one...

The Chinese are a real deal and becoming an aviation power like the USA.

The jury is out on the EU programme, the French may know what they are doing but having Germany as an industrial partner has put them 2 steps behind already....
If I take everything you said as correct then why UK is purchasing F35s once they already have such a potent aviation industry?
The answer my friend is simple, turkey, s Korea, China and also to some extent Russia and Japan are still rising, UK on the other hand is declining, and you status as a US poodle isn't helping the situation

Tempest will be to UK what LCA Tejas is to India
 
By the existence of the Tempest, inshallah TFX is gonna be nice.


Bro, BAE is just a design partner of TF-X program Phase-1 and 400 BAE engineers are working side by side with Turkish engineers in MMU design office to develop a sophisticate aerodynamic fighter fuselage with using special softwares on super computers with 10000 core processors. TF-X is going to be the backbone of Turkish Armed Forces in 2030’s so It has nothing to do with British requirements, nor they have a saying over TF-X. That’s why they are working on a fighter program called Tempest.

By 2023, We will see turboprop powered Akinci UCAV, turbofan powered unmanned stealth fighter, Hürjet CAS fighter first flight and TF-X stealth fighter ground test prototypes inşallah...
 
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If I take everything you said as correct then why UK is purchasing F35s once they already have such a potent aviation industry?
The answer my friend is simple, turkey, s Korea, China and also to some extent Russia and Japan are still rising, UK on the other hand is declining, and you status as a US poodle isn't helping the situation

Tempest will be to UK what LCA Tejas is to India

If you persist on saying such silly things, then people will simply not take seriously what you are saying ... Russia is dying as a nation, just look at the chart for their population and economy.. you have nerve to say that the UK is declining relative to Russia.. you are a silly little fella... The Ruskies are drinking themselves to death ..

Japan is not rising.. it has stalled ... look at the charts of their economic performance!! They have a much larger economy than the UK and have deeper pockets for sure. But, Rising is very different from "stalled". I am not saying the UK is rising, it, like most developed countries like France, Italy, Germany and Japan are stalled.. with a narrow band of growth..

S Korea is rising yes .... but they will NEVER over take the UK ever... what makes you think they will ?????? Once a country reaches a developed status like the UK/France/Germany, it will see a decrease in growth rate as there is only so much growth opportunity.

The only countries that are "rising" from your statement are China, and Turkey and both from low and medium levels to developed status.

Do some research !!
 
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But that's not what he mentioned in the presentation, big bro. He wasn't referring to the Tempest commanding slave drones. He said "this aircraft will operate in the manned and unmanned versions."

That's what I was referring to when I mentioned if a single aircraft can switch to either role or will there be dedicated aircraft for both roles. The former sounds much more exciting than the latter, although that would be pretty cool as well, even somewhat revolutionary.
I was just pointing to the possibilities as a continuation of the general mind frame of European fighter drones technologies tested up till now.. the "Tempest" is said to be ready by 2040.. there might be 2 versions one manned and the other unmanned as was stated officially.. but they will work in coordination.. and that puts us at the man.machine paradox again.. where the manned aircrafts will command the other ones..unless the unmanned version works in an autonomous mode for specific missions..Both versions are going to be 6th generation..while the fighter drones in existence now can be considered 5th generation..
Looking at the technology trends today with autonomous driving cars' prototypes being tested already..I don't see why the Tempest can't be manned and unmanned depending on the specific missions assigned to it..
 
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Su-57 is better. Su-57 has 4 faced AESA. 1 in front. 1 in back. 1 on left. 1 on right. On top of that, it's got IRST. Don't see anything special with Tempest.
 
Tempest is something between the yf-22 and yf-23 the scottish hacker sir alec baldwin stole from the US database .

judging by "Tempest" 's name it was probably gifted by Donald Trump to Teresa may or maybe the queen in his latest european tour .

Personally, I think Su-57 looks better. Su-57 has AESA in the back, in the front, on both sides. Plus, it's got IRST that Tempest lacks.

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in aviation looking better does not count . the boeing too looks better than Airbus .
 
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