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Tempest | the UK's Next Generation Fighter | Updates & Discussions

Tempest is close enough to F-35 they can use Tempest instead of F-35 for carriers.

British carriers are VTOL, why would the UK build another separate VTOL program? when they are already part of the f-35 development? shows how little you know about things.
 
Project Tempest seems to be garnering a lot of interest among several countries who do not want to collaborate directly with the United States or Russia.

Case and point, Japan and India for the next generation engine development from this project, while Turkey showing interest for the main program.

There were discussions online that mention that the UK is inviting Japan for the development of the next-generation engine for the Tempest and the Mitsubishi F-3 (Shin-Shin). Similarly, The decision to establish a collaboration will be decided by India for AMCA with either Rolls-Royce or Safran in February 2022.

If these reports are true, then it would be the first time that the British are collaborating outside their traditional western sphere of alliances

Turkey has also shown interest in collaborating with UK for their own TF-X project. No idea how far the talks have progressed.

Perhaps our Turkish members @Hakikat ve Hikmet @TurDef here could highlight the details.
 
Turkey has also shown interest in collaborating with UK for their own TF-X project. No idea how far the talks have progressed.

Perhaps our Turkish members @Hakikat ve Hikmet @TurDef here could highlight the details.
News from 2019... And the content is nothing but an anonymous think-tank comments and some assumptions. Partnering talks with the British on these various aviation projects has been discussed for pages even in this forum. A large number of documents and official explanation translations are available in the forum archive. Also, as far as I know, Hakikat ve Hikmet is not a Turkish member.
 
Project Tempest seems to be garnering a lot of interest among several countries who do not want to collaborate directly with the United States or Russia.

Case and point, Japan and India for the next generation engine development from this project, while Turkey showing interest for the main program.

There were discussions online that mention that the UK is inviting Japan for the development of the next-generation engine for the Tempest and the Mitsubishi F-3 (Shin-Shin). Similarly, The decision to establish a collaboration will be decided by India for AMCA with either Rolls-Royce or Safran in February 2022.

If these reports are true, then it would be the first time that the British are collaborating outside their traditional western sphere of alliances

Turkey has also shown interest in collaborating with UK for their own TF-X project. No idea how far the talks have progressed.

Perhaps our Turkish members @Hakikat ve Hikmet @TurDef here could highlight the details.


I thought we have already selected Safran during French def min visit few weeks back
 
Looks huge, almost like a bomber / jet hybrid. I wonder how manoeverable it could be in a dogfight. Not that dogfights even happen anymore. Now it's all BVR with air to air missiles and awacs.

Apparently this is the UK's latest creation of it's next generation fighter, the Tempest.

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News from 2019... And the content is nothing but an anonymous think-tank comments and some assumptions. Partnering talks with the British on these various aviation projects has been discussed for pages even in this forum. A large number of documents and official explanation translations are available in the forum archive. Also, as far as I know, Hakikat ve Hikmet is not a Turkish member.

So you guys are going at it alone? That would be a steep learning curve, even for your most capable engineers.

I thought we have already selected Safran during French def min visit few weeks back

The agreement was for the IMRH heavy helicopter aka the Mi-17V5 replacement that HAL is designing. The decision for AMCA's new engine is said to be announced in DefExpo 2022. So it is still in the air.
 

Britain and Japan aim to merge Tempest and F-X fighter programmes-sources

By Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo, Paul Sandle and Tim Hepher

TOKYO/LONDON, July 14 (Reuters) - Britain and Japan are close to an agreement to merge their next-generation Tempest and F-X fighter jet programmes, with the two countries aiming for a deal on a new joint project by year-end, three sources told Reuters.

It would be the first time Japan has sought a non-U.S. partner for a large military programme and the first major collaboration between Tokyo and London, going beyond what had been expected when industrial talks began five years ago

TOKYO/LONDON, July 14 (Reuters) - Britain and Japan are close to an agreement to merge their next-generation Tempest and F-X fighter jet programmes, with the two countries aiming for a deal on a new joint project by year-end, three sources told Reuters.

It would be the first time Japan has sought a non-U.S. partner for a large military programme and the first major collaboration between Tokyo and London, going beyond what had been expected when industrial talks began five years ago.

"This would be an equal partnership between Japan and Britain," said one of the sources with knowledge of the plan. It will cost tens of billions of dollars, he added.

The push to combine the Japanese F-X programme, led by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) (7011.T), with Britain's Tempest, managed by BAE Systems PLC (BAES.L), by December has not previously been reported.
The sources asked to remain anonymous because they are not authorised to speak to the media.

"The main thing that we are aiming for is to build a common jet, that may have small differences in design for each country," said another of the sources.

Britain could handle exports in Europe, while Japan would take care of the Asian market, another of the three sources said.

Collaboration would spread development costs, while exporting would increase production lots and reduce the price per plane, helping both countries stretch their defence budgets.

A model of a new jet fighter, called 'Tempest' at the Farnborough Airshow, in Farnborough, Britain July 16, 2018. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls/File Photo

TOKYO/LONDON, July 14 (Reuters) - Britain and Japan are close to an agreement to merge their next-generation Tempest and F-X fighter jet programmes, with the two countries aiming for a deal on a new joint project by year-end, three sources told Reuters.

It would be the first time Japan has sought a non-U.S. partner for a large military programme and the first major collaboration between Tokyo and London, going beyond what had been expected when industrial talks began five years ago.

"This would be an equal partnership between Japan and Britain," said one of the sources with knowledge of the plan. It will cost tens of billions of dollars, he added.

The push to combine the Japanese F-X programme, led by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) (7011.T), with Britain's Tempest, managed by BAE Systems PLC (BAES.L), by December has not previously been reported.
The sources asked to remain anonymous because they are not authorised to speak to the media.

"The main thing that we are aiming for is to build a common jet, that may have small differences in design for each country," said another of the sources.

Britain could handle exports in Europe, while Japan would take care of the Asian market, another of the three sources said.

Collaboration would spread development costs, while exporting would increase production lots and reduce the price per plane, helping both countries stretch their defence budgets.

It would represent a deepening of security ties between the two close U.S. allies. London is taking on a bigger military role in Asia under a strategic "tilt" towards the Indo-Pacific, and Tokyo is expanding defence cooperation beyond Washington. read more

Japan's policy, pushed by the late former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to strengthen Tokyo's hand against neighbouring China, has taken on new urgency following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which Moscow describes as a "special operation."

The switch to a European partner comes as Japan's defence spending rises, with the budget expected to double over the coming decade as Prime Minister Fumio Kishida sticks with Abe's national security agenda and fulfils an election pledge to "substantially" increase military outlays.

"We would like to decide how we can cooperate by the end of this year, and are considering various possibilities," Japan's defence ministry said.

Britain's defence ministry had no immediate comment. The country's air force head, Air Chief Marshal Mike Wigston, told a conference on Thursday that Britain is "exploring partnering opportunities and sharing our technological expertise with a range of international partners, including Japan and Italy".
MHI and BAE declined to comment.

Britain plans to give an update on Tempest at next week's Farnborough Airshow, another source said, without elaborating.

OPENING FOR EUROPE

Japan's partnership with Britain is a chance for BAE and other European Tempest companies, such as Rolls-Royce (RR.L), missile maker MBDA and Italian defence group Leonardo (LDOF.MI) to tap a growing market long-dominated by U.S. companies.

Efforts to merge the fighter jet projects follow deepening co-operation between the UK and Japan in recent years from the JNAAM missile project to sensor work and a deal to develop an engine demonstrator. read more

"You can see the direction of travel," said Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at think-tank IISS.
It is more than 20 years since MHI, maker of the World War Two-era Zero fighter, and U.S. defence group Lockheed Martin Corp built Japan's F-2 fighter, a short-winged derivative of the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

Lockheed, which later developed the F-35 stealth plane, had also been expected to help MHI build the F-X, an F-2 replacement, which Japan wants to deploy in the 2030s to counter advanced fighters from China.

The programme cost of developing the F-X is estimated by Japan defence ministry officials at around $40 billion, $700 million of which has been allocated this year, making it a lucrative proposition for Japanese companies that lost out as Tokyo bought American kit, including the F-35.

The BAE-led Tempest project to field a replacement for the European Typhoon combat jet has a government budget of 2 billion pounds ($2.38 billion) until 2025, when full development is slated to start.

It is one of two European initiatives for the next generation of air power alongside the Franco-German-Spanish Future Combat Air System, currently mired in divisions between partners Airbus (AIR.PA) and Dassault Aviation (AM.PA).

Lockheed, in 2018, had proposed using an F-22 Raptor airframe and F-35 components for the F-X, but that tentative partnership ended this year because U.S. control over the sensitive technology meant Washington could say when and how Japan maintained and upgraded its planes, the sources said.

A Lockheed spokesperson said questions about the programme should be referred to the Japanese government.

For Japanese companies, which were banned from exporting weapons overseas until 2014, the partnership is a chance to access foreign markets and European technology with potentially fewer restrictions than those imposed by Washington.

Tempest "is a flexible construct that lends itself to multiple forms of cooperation," said defence analyst Francis Tusa.

The fighter will still need some U.S. components, such as for communications and data links, to ensure interoperability with U.S. forces.

As talks in Tokyo and London push ahead, it is still unclear what role, if any, the Swedish and Italian governments will have in the new project after agreeing to collaborate on Tempest.


Tempest is progressing with more investors and development partners !!!!!!
 
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BAE to work on the first new supersonic fighter jet in almost 40 years​


Sixth-generation warplane designed to replace Eurofighter Typhoon to fly 'in next five years'

BAE Systems is to begin work on its first supersonic fighter jet prototype in almost 40 years as part of its Tempest programme.
The defence giant will develop a sixth-generation warplane to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon. The flying prototype will be a venture between BAE and the Ministry of Defence – a distinct project within the wider Tempest programme, which also involves Italy's Leonardo.
Separately, the Government announced on Monday that the UK is conducting “joint concept analysis” with Japan. That could see the nation eventually join the Tempest fighter jet programme. Japan offers both considerable technology experience and financial weight.
Developing a prototype is seen as a key step in testing the planned design of the new fighter jet. BAE's predecessor, British Aerospace, made a demonstrator in 1986, which was ultimately developed into the Typhoon. That was the last time the UK built a supersonic fighter prototype.

Herman Claesen, managing director of future combat air systems at BAE, said the new prototype could propel the company’s technology forward in similar-sized leaps to the development of the jet engine or the Concorde passenger jet.
He told journalists at the Farnborough airshow: “This is in the same category as when Sir Frank Whittle developed the jet engine, when we designed Concorde, this is a fundamental step forward from an engineering point of view in doing combat.”
BAE wants the new fighter jet to be flying “in the next five years”, according to Mr Claesen, who added that about 1,000 people will work on the design of the demonstrator at BAE and its suppliers.
The jet will be a so-called sixth-generation fighter, which offers better radar-beating technology than the fourth-generation Typhoon and fifth-generation carrier-based F35, which was a project led by US firm Lockheed Martin on which BAE had some work.
The prototype will be fitted with jet engines developed by Rolls-Royce. Rolls signed a deal last year with Japan’s IHI to develop a next-generation engine, which added to speculation that Japan could join the programme as a full member.

In common with the F-35, the fighter will be loaded with sensors and high-power computer systems designed to gather and process data and turn it into intelligence on the battlefield.
The newest systems require vast amounts of electric power and Rolls and BAE will need to work out how to deliver it whilst also keeping the plane away from detection.
The company has registered more than 50 patents and worked with 100 suppliers, small business and universities to do the research so far, said Mr Claesen.
Much has changed since the last prototype was made in the 1980s, Charles Woodburn, BAE Systems chief executive, said. Paper drawings have given way to three-dimensional digital models, which can be tested in computer simulations before they are made.
“There has been a lot more design work done digitally now compared to back then. So we have a much clearer picture of what it will look like, how it will fly,” he said.
Farnborough Airshow is typically used by the defence and civil aviation industries as a venue for announcing big deals.
Sources say that an announcement about Japan joining the Tempest programme is unlikely this week and that Tokyo will make a final decision on the direction of its own new fighter programme later this year.
Reuters reported last week that Tempest and Japan’s F-X programmes could be merged. This would create an Anglo-Japanese-Italian powerhouse which would compete for international business with France and Germany’s own future combat jet project.
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said: “I am delighted that the UK, alongside Italy and Japan, are working on similar combat air journeys together. Our work with Japan and Italy on cutting-edge technology like this shows the benefit of our alliances across the world.
“The design and development of the demonstrator aircraft represents an important milestone, showcasing the success and talent of our engineers, programmers and software developers. This programme will go on to attract opportunities for many more great minds and talent from across the UK.”













Farnborough 2022: Tempest Future Combat Air System demonstrator to fly within the next five years​


The UK government announced on the opening day of the Farnborough Airshow that a low-observable demonstrator for the UK-led Tempest Future Combat Air System (FCAS) would fly within the next five years.


As the Farnborough International Air Show kicked off on 18 July, UK defence secretary Ben Wallace confirmed plans for the country to lead the development of a demonstrator fighter aircraft that would play a key role in proving the technology and design principles behind the Tempest Future Combat Air System (FCAS).
Building and flying the demonstrator is already approved and not subject to an upcoming FCAS business case later in 2022, UK MoD Director of Future Combat Air Richard Berthon told reporters during a press briefing at Farnborough.
Berthon added that the MoD and Industry are jointly funding the demonstrator effort.
The news comes as Japan inched closer to formally joining the international effort, by agreeing to joint concept and analysis work with the UK and Italy as part of a trilateral partnership.
International partnerships are critical to the plausibility of FCAS from a cost perspective.
Wallace said: ‘I am delighted that the UK, alongside Italy and Japan, are working on similar combat air journeys together.
‘Our work with Japan and Italy on cutting-edge technology like this shows the benefit of our alliances across the world.’
Further decisions on Japanese partnership in the Team Tempest FCAS effort are expected to be made before the end of 2022.
Trilateral work between the UK, Italy and Japan will examine respective military requirements and how industrial bases can be aligned.
Berthon said the Japanese involvement was a ‘hugely important step’ for the programme.
In a press release, BAE Systems said the demonstrator would be the first flying air combat demonstrator designed and developed in the UK ‘in a generation’.
Rolls-Royce will power the future FCAS fighter platform. During the briefing, future programmes and business development director Alex Zino said the company was still assessing what engine the demonstrator aircraft would be equipped with.
Wallace said: ‘The design and development of the demonstrator aircraft represents an important milestone, showcasing the success and talent of our engineers, programmers and software developers.
‘This programme will go on to attract opportunities for many more great minds and talent from across the UK.’
Sweden, which recently opted to join NATO, remains a close partner in the international effort to develop the future sixth-generation fighter jet.
Team Tempest comprises BAE Systems, Leonardo UK, Rolls-Royce and MBDA UK.
 
The UK doesn't have the expertise to make a 5th gen jet. It also don't have the expertise to make a good jet engine.
 
The UK doesn't have the expertise to make a 5th gen jet. It also don't have the expertise to make a good jet engine.

Wuuuut?! And how did China build its magnificent fleet of 5th gen. J-20s with no expertise whatsoever except in license/copy building Soviet & Russian aircraft?

The UK has arguably the 3rd richest aviation history after the US & USSR/Russia culminating in the Electric Lightning the Hawker Hunter, the venerable SEPECAT Jaguar fighter bomber, PANAVIA Tornado and the GR7 Harrier. No expertise?

And speaking of engines, Rolls-Royce also built the best piston engines all the way to the Pegasus jet engine in the Harrier which is considered one of the best manufactured jet engines in the world.

And with the common ties it has with the US, it will have absolutely no difficulty in building the Tempest from start to finish with new and innovative features,

EDIT: Let's not forget the Typhoon and the Eurojet EJ200.

The Eurojet EJ200 is a military low-bypass turbofan used as the powerplant of the Eurofighter Typhoon. The engine is largely based on the Rolls-Royce XG-40 technology demonstrator, which was developed in the 1980s.
 
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Wuuuut?! And how did China build its magnificent fleet of 5th gen. J-20s with no expertise whatsoever except in license/copy building Soviet & Russian aircraft?

The UK has arguably the 3rd richest aviation history after the US & USSR/Russia culminating in the Electric Lightning the Hawker Hunter, the venerable SEPECAT Jaguar fighter bomber, PANAVIA Tornado and the GR7 Harrier. No expertise?

And speaking of engines, Rolls-Royce also built the best piston engines all the way to the Pegasus jet engine in the Harrier which is considered one of the best manufactured jet engines in the world.

And with the common ties it has with the US, it will have absolutely no difficulty in building the Tempest from start to finish with new and innovative features,

EDIT: Let's not forget the Typhoon and the Eurojet EJ200.

The Eurojet EJ200 is a military low-bypass turbofan used as the powerplant of the Eurofighter Typhoon. The engine is largely based on the Rolls-Royce XG-40 technology demonstrator, which was developed in the 1980s.

EJ200 is mainly German work. The UK don't have good engine tech.
 
EJ200 is mainly German work. The UK don't have good engine tech.

Did you even read the source? It's based entirely on the Rolls-Royce XG-40. And you conveniently glossed over all the other points that clearly show the UK very capable of pulling this off technically. The only thing that would slow it down or stop it is funding. Other than that, it's more than capable of building what will probably be closer to a 6th gen aircraft even.
 

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