Taliban gunned down 6 American soldiers.

[jayron]

Hello,

If u stopped after the 1st bolded part i would have not responded to u since u accepted u didnot have an idea about miss Ridly ( eventhough it was not right for u to comment something that dont go any idea of it ur credibility at stake or knowledge). We r here to exchange view on +ve way and not to score points ( alteast i say it about my self). Again u put urself in not a good situation by talking about some journalist, or documentary made by dutch , norwegian , german of bla bla media group. U have only one side of the story it is may be true wat happened to journalist or may be in not the same way that u have stated. Forcing of conversion if it was true taliban would have forced all the sikhs living in afghanistan during their government when they had all the authority.

Taliban r not reliable , this is not right if they were not reliable they would have handed osama to U.S. After all who in good state of mind would like his country be bombed, loose his grip just for one person. They r not reliable for u, for the west but reliable for their friends or whomever is on their land who asked for their help now u tell me they treated some journalist bad without having the other side of the story i cant accept it. If the international community didnot boycott them and helped them in some ways may had some say on their politics.

Afghanistan is in state of war since 79 when there was no sign of taliban. Taliban r stupid , they r narrow minded tribal culture agree on all these points but does this give the west to invade a country and call them terrorist and take their right to fight the invaders. PPl of the land r called terrorists and and invaders r praised ( dbl standard)

I guess u never seen any video shots of kabul where u see ladies wearing burqas? Again u r trying to twist the fact wearing a burqa or scarf is islamic didnot u see muslim ladies doing it by their own will in the west? Why there r laws to ban burqa, niqab on public places in some wetern countries.

Bottom line is since taliban r muslims doesnot have tuxedos, dont talk english didnot obey the western masters and their allies they need to be bombed and killed.

Bottom line, Most of the muslims do not approve what taliban were doing but never accepted how they were treated before the war or after.

Again dont bring pakistan

Regards

TARIQ

It is a document made to show the "human" side of Taliban shown on CNN. The problem with a lot of Pakistanis is, they don't trust any one who are non-muslims. People always do not play double games and lie. If you know what I mean. Especially journalists reporting war. Any way, watch the video and then judge.

Life among U.S. enemies: Embedded with the Taliban – Afghanistan Crossroads - CNN.com Blogs

Its funny how you bring sikh people to justify the Taliban. Didn't they mercilessly kill a number of sikhs for not converting a few years back?

Very few women wear a burqa because they want to which is because they are indoctrinated to want it. Most of them are forced to wear it. And the Talibans punish them do not wear one.
If you are going to support anything and anyone just because of your religion, there is not any point in arguing. We could just say islam is the best and all muslims are saints and end it there.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

What about when Turkish Soldiers are killed by PKK?

Is that great news as well ?

Turkey is not attacking other nations and killing civilians. Kurds don't have a state, they are an ethnic minority living in Turkey. Your analogy is quite absurd.

 

[roadrunner]

Some photos of religious police caning some women (by Ahmad iir).

A photo such as this seems to stir your emotions very easily, yet you don't seem to mind much worse cases of caning of women and indeed of children that occurs in other countries. What is it that makes it hideous to raise a cane to a woman that might be breaking the law in Afghanistan, yet raising a cane in these instances is alright? Is it that they dress in a different way? Or look a bit different?

Paddling hasn't been banned in all western countries, or caning. So it is a valid punishment. What is the difference between these canings in your opinion?

 

[roadrunner]

Jigs and Roadrunner,

Very nice to see your posts.

I would say that one of the problems with the world these days is that the developed nations tend to view others in terms of what they deem a truly emancipated and humane society.
However the culture across different countries varies significantly and has to be respected or at least acknowledged as something that cannot be discarded easily in favor of what we perceive as the right set of values and principles.

The Afghans had a lot other problems than some women who did not like Burqas.
Whereas i totally disagree with the approach of forcing women to wear a Burqa, one has to understand that majority of Afghan women wear it whether you force them or not.

However the food shortage, the mine related accidents, the medical aid requirement and many more problems were genuine and common to all Afghans as serious problems.

So if the world thinks that the problem in Afghanistan is women wearing Burqas, then you will never eliminate that problem since to many Afghans it is their custom.
However addressing the problems which the Afghans deem critical will help them recover to a state of normalcy, only that will bring stability.
Tying the assistance efforts to things like liberation of women from Burqa may sound like a grand scheme to make life easier for the women but it will actually jeopardize any attempt to help the Afghans (including the women) since many will perceive this as an affront to their cultural values and will react strongly.

One cannot expect to forge all other societies into their own image, it usually backfires since the set of values and principles pertaining to everyday life and good conduct vary significantly across the globe.
How these values and principles are enforced is something we can argue about, but at the end of the day we have to acknowledge that there are bound to be significant differences across many aspects of social norms and the sensitivities that local customs and laws attach to such norms.
Forcing someone into a Burqa in the name of Islam is stupid to me but then that is something for Afghan people to decide, when many of them do wear it ...it implies that a significant part of Afghan society consider it as a norm!

Interesting to note that many ladies in Turkey (most modern Muslim country) wear the headscarf out of their own choice, the reason for this is not extremism or backwardness but a fact that many Muslims like to wear a dress in accordance with Islamic values, some overdo it (in my opinion) by wearing the Burqa but many do cover their heads and wear a decent dress to cover themselves properly as per instructions of Islam.

When the west tries to portray the freedom of women as the option to do away with covering your head, then to most of Muslims it is a very hollow benchmark.
Providing education to Afghan women is a most critical thing but that goes for Afghan men too.
Now instead of focusing on the Burqa as a medieval thing which many NGOs do, first try to work within the norms of Afghan society and just help provide education, maybe down the line the Afghan thought about this practice changes and maybe it does not, but certainly this change should not be the aim of an education program.
The aim should be to educate the people to help architect a prosperous society and not to bring a massive change in the social customs by forcing western ideas of liberalism on the Afghans (ideas which may be right or wrong in our eyes).
Such an apple maybe considered poisoned by many Afghan families.

If the higher objective is kept in mind, then these matters are better left alone for the locals to decide for themselves, outside intervention and propaganda to force a change may actually reinforce the custom and demonize the ones who want to break away with it.

Yup i pretty much agree with all of that.

 

[jayron]

There is a difference between canning children and grown women don't you think? And if flogging women isn't any worse than canning children, are you OK with that being followed to make women wear the full veil?

I think those men who want women to wear burqa should wear it themselves so that women are not distracted.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

No.

We Pakistani's helped create the Taliban and were the ones that got them into power in Afghanistan. Just so that we could have a neighbor who is friendly to us no matter what. But that didn't work out so well, because they hid Al Qaeda from us and the USA. It's our responsibility to help destroy them.

If you haven't realized, they are fighting Pak Fauj, and killing our innocents every day.

I say u dont know what u r talking about or u missed the point. If i ask u when alqaeda was formed u would not be able to tell. alqaeda was there before taliban came to power. Until 9/11 it was all cool for pakistan and if u wanna prove we had diplomatic relations with them.
Accept when the Pak fauj decided to help the U.S then taliban became evil. Get ur facts straight plz.

Now if u tell me that we pakistanies have done bad to afghanistan by interfering in their politics then i 100% agree with u and we should take the blame. We made their life hell i agree with u. We r as criminal as taliban, But have we punished those ppl?

Having said that How u can take the right from taliban to fight the invaders?

Again those who r fighting pak fauj r TTP ( they r terrorists and should be delt with properly)

TARIQ

 

[roadrunner]

There is a difference between canning children and grown women don't you think?

No i don't. It's all the same. Human beings. You either don't hit, or you hit people weaker than you. Incidentally you don't know if those are schoolchildren under the Burkha, do you?

But alright here's some more (admitably they're not caning examples, but even more brutal examples of police applying their laws)

Is it acceptable if it's a man (obviously in great terror) getting the beating?

And if flogging women isn't any worse than canning children, are you OK with that being followed to make women wear the full veil?

Read the thread again. Do you have the right to tell others what is normal to them and what their laws should be? If so, why? Is it because you believe yourself to be more educated and culturally advanced than they? (you're not fyi)

I think those men who want women to wear burqa should wear it themselves so that women are not distracted.

You're an amazing individual, so rare and unique. Surprisingly for you, I'd prefer women not to wear Burkhas. However, it's not for me to say Afghan women should or should not wear a Burkha because I've been conditioned in some other way. Do you agree that the Congo should be allowed to invade Canada in order to grant women the right to walk around in public topless. I mean women are so oppressed in Canada, aren't they?

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

It is a document made to show the "human" side of Taliban shown on CNN. The problem with a lot of Pakistanis is, they don't trust any one who are non-muslims. People always do not play double games and lie. If you know what I mean. Especially journalists reporting war. Any way, watch the video and then judge.

Life among U.S. enemies: Embedded with the Taliban – Afghanistan Crossroads - CNN.com Blogs
YouTube - Rory Peck Awards 2010 C4: Paul Refsdal - Taliban: Behind The Masks

Its funny how you bring sikh people to justify the Taliban. Didn't they mercilessly kill a number of sikhs for not converting a few years back?

Very few women wear a burqa because they want to which is because they are indoctrinated to want it. Most of them are forced to wear it. And the Talibans punish them do not wear one.
If you are going to support anything and anyone just because of your religion, there is not any point in arguing. We could just say islam is the best and all muslims are saints and end it there.

The difference between me and u is u only see the taliban r the only evil while u forget the other side has history of invading countries from a century in the name of democracy strategic interset and all those claims ( i can give a list of countries vietnam, wmd ( iraq) , latin america list is so long ) and have killed millions. while taliban have killed thousands ( and if they did it was during their cival war if u compare the ppl who died in american civil war the % of ppl killed in america will be more). Taliban can be accused of many things but it is not proved they lied but the other side lie is one of their big weapons ( remember the mobile chemical and biological factories of saddam?)

Now i accuse taliban if they have harm any innocent person while u r trying to defend the otherside who is a proven lier and killer of millions and from many countries.

It means u never saw a video shot from kabul, otherwise would have seen women wearing burqa and u could not answer why muslim women in west wears burqa either it is their choice or it is from their culture is, period.

Taliban in running and hiding since almost nine years i dont know when and where they tried to force the sikhs to converg if u can give pacific date or period.

Taliban have dont bad things to their public and there r many regimes have done more to their public. It doesnot give the right for a country who killed millions of ppl all over the wolrd and come invade, and talk about human rights violations.

Again u r wrong, i dont side with taliban ( it is ur claim i blame their stupidity and they should have done better but afghanistan is in state of war they have not seen anything accept guns since 30 years) bcoz they r muslims i blame my own country ( my own muslim brothers ) by not making efforts to end the civil war in the early 90's. So here u go u accused me of something that was not there. Aghanistan problem is not only bcoz of only taliban. There r many ethnic groups who r less in numbers but got more then they deserve and vice versa but i m sure u dont know that and u also dont care. The only thng that u care is since taliban were close to pakistan or they talked about islam they should be bombed and killed.

Afghanistan will be solved when all the foreigners stop interfering in their affairs including my own country and invaders go out.

Good new Germans announced the will start pulling their troops from 2011.

Since u ppl r not from the region and sometimes our own pakistani brothers do make the same mistake u need to distinct between TTP AND TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN.

nice to hear from u

TARIQ

 

[jayron]

No i don't. It's all the same. Human beings. You either don't hit, or you hit people weaker than you. Incidentally you don't know if those are schoolchildren under the Burkha, do you?

But alright here's some more (admitably they're not caning examples, but even more brutal examples of police applying their laws)


Is it acceptable if it's a man (obviously in great terror) getting the beating?





Read the thread again. Do you have the right to tell others what is normal to them and what their laws should be? If so, why? Is it because you believe yourself to be more educated and culturally advanced than they? (you're not fyi)



You're an amazing individual, so rare and unique. Surprisingly for you, I'd prefer women not to wear Burkhas. However, it's not for me to say Afghan women should or should not wear a Burkha because I've been conditioned in some other way. Do you agree that the Congo should be allowed to invade Canada in order to grant women the right to walk around in public topless. I mean women are so oppressed in Canada, aren't they?

What ever makes you think Taliban stoning a woman face to turn it into a pulp for adultery is normal.
If you think Canada and Afganistan have similar treatment of women, I cannot argue with you.

BTW, I think my culture is better than that of Taliban's and the West has better and just treatment of humans than muslim countries could ever achieve. That is why they accept people from all over the world and treat them equally while foreign journalists are beheaded and women are mutilated in muslim countries.

Again, the US did not ivade Afghanistan to save women but to capture Osama

 

[jayron]

The difference between me and u is u only see the taliban r the only evil while u forget the other side has history of invading countries from a century in the name of democracy strategic interset and all those claims ( i can give a list of countries vietnam, wmd ( iraq) , latin america list is so long ) and have killed millions. while taliban have killed thousands ( and if they did it was during their cival war if u compare the ppl who died in american civil war the % of ppl killed in america will be more). Taliban can be accused of many things but it is not proved they lied but the other side lie is one of their big weapons ( remember the mobile chemical and biological factories of saddam?)

Now i accuse taliban if they have harm any innocent person while u r trying to defend the otherside who is a proven lier and killer of millions and from many countries.

It means u never saw a video shot from kabul, otherwise would have seen women wearing burqa and u could not answer why muslim women in west wears burqa either it is their choice or it is from their culture is, period.

Taliban in running and hiding since almost nine years i dont know when and where they tried to force the sikhs to converg if u can give pacific date or period.

Taliban have dont bad things to their public and there r many regimes have done more to their public. It doesnot give the right for a country who killed millions of ppl all over the wolrd and come invade, and talk about human rights violations.

Again u r wrong, i dont side with taliban ( it is ur claim i blame their stupidity and they should have done better but afghanistan is in state of war they have not seen anything accept guns since 30 years) bcoz they r muslims i blame my own country ( my own muslim brothers ) by not making efforts to end the civil war in the early 90's. So here u go u accused me of something that was not there. Aghanistan problem is not only bcoz of only taliban. There r many ethnic groups who r less in numbers but got more then they deserve and vice versa but i m sure u dont know that and u also dont care. The only thng that u care is since taliban were close to pakistan or they talked about islam they should be bombed and killed.

Afghanistan will be solved when all the foreigners stop interfering in their affairs including my own country and invaders go out.

Good new Germans announced the will start pulling their troops from 2011.

Since u ppl r not from the region and sometimes our own pakistani brothers do make the same mistake u need to distinct between TTP AND TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN.

nice to hear from u

TARIQ

Americans are no saints. But In this case, they attacked Afganistan just to destroy Al Qaida .

News about 2 Sikhs beheaded:

PESHAWAR/NEW DELHI: The Taliban has reportedly beheaded two Sikhs in Pakistan's lawless tribal region bordering Afghanistan and sent the heads to a gurdwara.

Jaspal Singh and Mahan Singh, both businessmen, were kidnapped from Tira Valley, in Khyber agency, and Darra Adamkheil, in Orakzai agency, on January 19 and held for ransom. Sources in the area told TOI on Sunday that they were killed because they were paying `protection' money to a rival faction.

However, according to security sources in New Delhi, Jaspal and Mahan were reportedly told to convert to Islam or face death. When they refused, their heads were chopped off and sent to the Bhai Joga Singh gurdwara in Peshawar.

The Indian government has taken serious note of this and is in touch with the high commission in Islamabad. "This incident is shocking. We are looking into it," a source said.

The miniscule Sikh community in NWFP and Afghanistan has been under pressure from the Taliban to embrace Islam, official sources said. The Taliban, during their reign in Afghanistan, had imposed jiziya -- a religious tax -- on all minorities, mostly Hindus and Sikhs. They were made to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their breast pocket to identify themselves.

Read more: Taliban kill 2 Sikhs, send heads to Pak gurdwara - The Times of India Taliban kill 2 Sikhs, send heads to Pak gurdwara - The Times of India

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Americans are no saints. But In this case, they attacked Afganistan just to destroy Al Qaida .

News about 2 Sikhs beheaded:

PESHAWAR/NEW DELHI: The Taliban has reportedly beheaded two Sikhs in Pakistan's lawless tribal region bordering Afghanistan and sent the heads to a gurdwara.

Jaspal Singh and Mahan Singh, both businessmen, were kidnapped from Tira Valley, in Khyber agency, and Darra Adamkheil, in Orakzai agency, on January 19 and held for ransom. Sources in the area told TOI on Sunday that they were killed because they were paying `protection' money to a rival faction.

However, according to security sources in New Delhi, Jaspal and Mahan were reportedly told to convert to Islam or face death. When they refused, their heads were chopped off and sent to the Bhai Joga Singh gurdwara in Peshawar.

The Indian government has taken serious note of this and is in touch with the high commission in Islamabad. "This incident is shocking. We are looking into it," a source said.

The miniscule Sikh community in NWFP and Afghanistan has been under pressure from the Taliban to embrace Islam, official sources said. The Taliban, during their reign in Afghanistan, had imposed jiziya -- a religious tax -- on all minorities, mostly Hindus and Sikhs. They were made to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their breast pocket to identify themselves.

Read more: Taliban kill 2 Sikhs, send heads to Pak gurdwara - The Times of India Taliban kill 2 Sikhs, send heads to Pak gurdwara - The Times of India

While in my every post i m asking u to distinct between TTP AND TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN but u keep mixing them. In every post i wrote TTP is a terrorist group that need to be destroyed, the beheading of sikhs ( a sad event ) is dont in wat is called pakistan or FATA. I hope u get the point ( eventhugh it is a big questions those sikhs r living there since many times and the same ppl exist for many years why all of this is happening now it is for u to think while we pakistanies know the answer). I take ur words that taliban forced jizia and some kind of dress to non muslims may be to u or me it is wrong but if they make a law then it is law of the land just like the american can make a law which suites them. There were reports they push ppl to revert to islam but nobody came and said he was forced to announce him self becoming a muslim so this is a lie. And nobody came forward and said that some of his relatives were killed coz they didnot rivert to islam, so this claim is also a lie by the same ppl who use lie as their weapon.


TARIQ

 

[alpha124]

What happened to world most advanced Army..
Being killed by some tribal with Ak-47's and RPG

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

What happened to world most advanced Army..
Being killed by some tribal with Ak-47's and RPG

lol

In serious note armies get defeated not nations they r fighting ghosts Biggest mistake bracket everybody as a taliban or taliban sympathiser, arrogance didnot understand the tribal culture and ethnic diversity of afghanistan.

TARIQ

 

[Gold1010]

seems the muslim world is still split between hardcore and modern atleast on this forum anyway.

 

[jayron]

While in my every post i m asking u to distinct between TTP AND TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN but u keep mixing them. In every post i wrote TTP is a terrorist group that need to be destroyed, the beheading of sikhs ( a sad event ) is dont in wat is called pakistan or FATA. I hope u get the point ( eventhugh it is a big questions those sikhs r living there since many times and the same ppl exist for many years why all of this is happening now it is for u to think while we pakistanies know the answer). I take ur words that taliban forced jizia and some kind of dress to non muslims may be to u or me it is wrong but if they make a law then it is law of the land just like the american can make a law which suites them. There were reports they push ppl to revert to islam but nobody came and said he was forced to announce him self becoming a muslim so this is a lie. And nobody came forward and said that some of his relatives were killed coz they didnot rivert to islam, so this claim is also a lie by the same ppl who use lie as their weapon.


TARIQ

The news doesn't say TTP does it? They are talking about the Taliban which rules Afghanistan. So I am guessing it is the Afghan or in your book, the good Taliban which beheaded the Sikhs.