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State of teaching (and recording) military history (MH) in Pakistan

FaujHistorian

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There is a wonderful thread started by Xeric "Why do we need to study military history"

http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/214587-why-do-we-need-study-military-history.html

As the scope of Xeric's thread is much broader, I wanted to avoid turning that to Pakistan specific issues. Why it is important? because in some ways the history of Pakistani military is perhaps one of the major drivers of the history of Pakistan itself (you like it or not, that's different story). So here we go.

It is kind of ironic that military history is a important for young military officers, but it should almost always be written by civis (short for civilians), who are professionals in the field of history (e.g. University professors, think tank members etc). The reason is simple. A military officer is directly involved in the day to day grind of his job, so it is hard to expect from him that he will be an unbiased and brutally honest about writing down his views. An oath to keep things secret is another hurdle that he may not be able to climb over.

Civis on the other hand are free and unencumbered from many of those issues faced by active duty military personnel. This is why many of the great generals in history would bring along professional (read civis) historians with them to not only document the state of the current wars, but also advise the generals based on the past wars.

Modern day British/American generals may not have the same approach, however they at least have civilian journalists to record the state of current wars. This practice was pretty unbiased until the Vietnam war, however things were drastically changed in the post-Vietnam era, Now we are usually stuck with "embedded" reporters. They may not be unbiased as things used to be, however these reports still serve as post war historians or at least documentarians,

Christian Junger did a fabulous job documenting some aspects of Afghan wars of 80s and later years.

American think tanks from both left (Carnegie) or right (heritage) do a pretty good job for analyzing American military history. British too have a habit of keeping meticulous record of their military history.


In Pakistan however, the art of military history is spotty at best. We have a couple of well known civilian writers like Ahmad Rashid and Ayesha Siddiqua, but they are not professional military historians. Instead they are political historians that cover military. Their focus is not the art of war, and war techniques, but they focus on what the Pak generals have done wrong in the civilian and strategic arena. They do not document the life and death of army officers like Lt. Col Haroon, and what Pak army could have done better from the military point of view. They may have written articles but they have not written books on this topic (pardon my ignorance if they did).

Some retired generals did write military history about Pakistani wars, but still we are missing professional historians coming from civilian cadres. And thus we have made military decisions as a country that turned out to be disastrous for our military.


So let's make an effort to document relatively unbiased military history of Pakistan. The areas I suggest are following (feel free to add more).


1. Pre-1947 military history of Pakistan.
---- Focus: How and when the roots of modern day Pakistani military were put in place

2. Post-1947 military history (macro view)

3. 1948 war

4. Skirmishes issues post 1948 but pre-1965

5. 1965 war

6. issues in post 1965 war but pre-1971

7. 1971 war

8. Post 1971 military history

9. Russo-Afghan war from 1979

10. Post- Russo-Afghan war

11. American/NATO-Afghan war since 2001

Please make sure that your post states in bold letters, one of the above topics (or if you added a new one).

thank you
 
An "unbiased" history would be quite impossible to narrate, for our biases play an inherent and natural role in how we perceive past and present events.
 
An "unbiased" history would be quite impossible to narrate, for our biases play an inherent and natural role in how we perceive past and present events.

That's True.

However if a Pakistani historian can rid himself from "Muslim have always won" and "1 Mulsim can fight 1000 non-Muslims". Won't that be a good start?
 
That's True.

However if a Pakistani historian can rid himself from "Muslim have always won" and "1 Mulsim can fight 1000 non-Muslims". Won't that be a good start?

If you have started a history thread, keep your comments restricted to historical aspects than utterances of such racist and bigoted rants which may result in a troll fest.

Just rendering an appropriate and friendly advice.
 
If you have started a history thread, keep your comments restricted to historical aspects than utterances of such racist and bigoted rants which may result in a troll fest.

Just rendering an appropriate and friendly advice.

How is this in anyway racist? Because i dont like certain comments doesnt mean they become racist and bigoted.
 
How is this in anyway racist? Because i dont like certain comments doesnt mean they become racist and bigoted.

In my opinion this is perceptual bigotry against a particular religion and smacks of a religious mindset.
 
Then you would have to disagree with the PMA as well.

In their mandated reading list for Officers is India: A Study in Profile that says that Hindus are weak, etc, etc.

Secondly, you would also have to argue with the myths that PA perpetuated in '65 that 1 Pakistani Muslim=10 Hindus.

You would know that there is a genesis to this statement.

When used for propaganda purposes you make common cause, its ok. But when a comment comes that PA must use its head and not believe in pushing false notions of Muslim victory in Pakistan to a domestic audience, it becomes racist?
 
Unbaised History?-

In the history of the world you cannot find an unbaised history- the histories are always tilted towards one side-

Dont know what this particular poster wants Pakistani history to be revised-

and i agree with ticker- targetting a specific religion is making you look like an idiot with ulterior motives-
 
Then you would have to disagree with the PMA as well.

In their mandated reading list for Officers is India: A Study in Profile that says that Hindus are weak, etc, etc.

Secondly, you would also have to argue with the myths that PA perpetuated in '65 that 1 Pakistani Muslim=10 Hindus.

You would know that there is a genesis to this statement.

When used for propaganda purposes you make common cause, its ok. But when a comment comes that PA must use its head and not believe in pushing false notions of Muslim victory in Pakistan to a domestic audience, it becomes racist?

Statisticaly One Pakistani should now equal 7.02 Indians-
thats simple ratio based on population-

In war time this figure will be used to boost the moral of soldiers and to make it more realistic- hindus are inherently weak card will also come into play- So?-
 
Then you would have to disagree with the PMA as well.

In their mandated reading list for Officers is India: A Study in Profile that says that Hindus are weak, etc, etc.

Secondly, you would also have to argue with the myths that PA perpetuated in '65 that 1 Pakistani Muslim=10 Hindus.

You would know that there is a genesis to this statement.

When used for propaganda purposes you make common cause, its ok. But when a comment comes that PA must use its head and not believe in pushing false notions of Muslim victory in Pakistan to a domestic audience, it becomes racist?

You don't have to put words in my mouth and imply a tangential twist to my remarks.

He mentioned a religion and his bigotry was as apparent as daylight.

And therefore my comments. I will restrict myself to only this and no more and won't reply to your implied response.
 
Statisticaly One Pakistani should now equal 7.02 Indians-
thats simple ratio based on population-

In war time this figure will be used to boost the moral of soldiers and to make it more realistic- hindus are inherently weak card will also come into play- So?-

Great. The only problem with your answer is it implied fighting ability. So 1 Muslim = 10 Hindus in fighting ability!

However this is about academic study, not war time slogans to boost morale. The problem with Pakistan is that academic studies which should give a dose of reality instead are done to justify the slogans!
The book at PMA is meant to be a serious study of India, the supposed arch enemy of Pakistan. The book goes on to list ridiculous facts passed of as a 'study' to justify everything that Pakistani's "like" to think of Indians and Hindus in particular. No wonder the book was promoted by ahem very competent President Generals!

That is even beyond distortion of facts. Facts of studies if distorted and taught lead to disastrous consequences - something Pak Mil has faced.

I can give examples when Pakistani commander's banked on predicting the 'Indian response' because of 'Hindu/Indian nature'. We know that backfired!

These failures are then further masked by a SOP followed by Pak Mil: Every win is a result of PA, every loss is a result of Politicians/USA.

Then the cycle continues..
 
You don't have to put words in my mouth and imply a tangential twist to my remarks.

He mentioned a religion and his bigotry was as apparent as daylight.

And therefore my comments. I will restrict myself to only this and no more and won't reply to your implied response.

He mentioned Pakistan very specifically and since Islam is the beyond dominant religion in Pakistan and Pakistan Military is never averse to pointing out its territorial (and political)ambitions as 'Islamic Jehad', use of religion to analyze becomes almost obvious.

Religion is used by your army to always imply that Muslims have won on the battlefield but traitor politicians have always lost it on the negotiating table. This has become ingrained over the decades.

This is not something that you will accept coming from an Indian. Were a Pakistani to say this you lot would be more amenable to introspect. This is quite understandable, however still loss for you.
 
If you have started a history thread, keep your comments restricted to historical aspects than utterances of such racist and bigoted rants which may result in a troll fest.

Just rendering an appropriate and friendly advice.


How is that even remotely racist? IF someone says "Muslims have always won and 1 Muslim can defeat 1000 non muslims" then THAT is racist. If someone criticizes THAT RACIST statement, that is NOT racist. That is the right thing to do. This is not an attack on religion at all. This would apply to people of any religion.

In war time this figure will be used to boost the moral of soldiers and to make it more realistic- hindus are inherently weak card will also come into play- So?-

So that is giving false hope. That is racist. What if they lose? How are you gonna deal with it then? Its better to say that the opposition is stronger than us, but we cannot afford to lose. That will be better motivation as it will instill a sense of purpose than going in with a mentality of inherent and non existent superiority, which is racist.
 

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