Search for Pakistani Strategic Bomber

[Tank131]

Or since Pakistan and India share borders, land based Babur 2s can be fired on multiple air defence targets. Why need a heavy air platform since target is next door.

Ra'ad 2 should have improved range of 350-450km so it can likely be PAFs S400 killer as it can be fired at the boundary detection range of the S400.

Babur-1 - 700KM launched from ground
Babur-2 - 750 km active seeker variant launched from ground
Babur-3 - 450km launched from submarine
Harbah - ? Antiship variant launched from ship
Ra'ad 1 - 350km launched from air
Ra'ad 2 - ? launched from air

At the very most, your ground launchers are 300km away from the border (if you intend to take out s400) and are as such very vulnerable to IAF strikes. You need to keep the airspace clear AND push the IAF airbases back. The further they have to fly to strike Pakistan, the less sorties they can fly. The less sorties they fly the less chance they have of achieving Air superiority over Pakistan. What you guys relying on ballistic missile strikes are failing to calculate is that any ballistic missile launch will be construed as a nuclear strike and will meet a similar response. To keep the conflict conventional as long as possible, CM are needed, and currently Babur doesnt have the range necessary to keep S400 AND IAF at bay. An air launched variant will give 1200km range minimum, which keeps your bomber assets at least 800km from tue border AND still able to reach 400km across the border. As further strikes continue, it can reach deeper into India. This frees up PAF to focus on defending the airspace.

As for defense of bombers this is a nonsensical point in this scenario. Its no different than having AWACs. PA and PAF SAMs along with JF-17 and F-16 can provide adequate defense for the bomber, especially when its 800km from any action AND it being provided good situational awareness by a fleet of 11 AWACs. Most likely IAF fighters wont be able to get close to them until air superiority is established. By the time that happens, the H-6Ks would have decimated IAF FOBs and S400 batteries that didnt retreat from the border, as well as IA armor and formations in Pakistan, making it very costly for India to continue a protracted enough battle to achieve air superiority and allowing time for a forced peace.

 

[SQ8]

wonder why the Israeli Air Force with at least 3 potentially hostile neighbors never cared for or tried to source a bomber.

 

[denel]

Hi,

Your thinking is on the right track---. What we need the bomber for is to launch our stand off weapons---.

If it can carry 4-6 Babur cruise missiles and launch them flying from farther down the ocean---it will create a big bang for the buck.

Indeed, dead on the mark. However if you look French choose to have Mirage IV.

 

[Maxpane]

Just reading different opinion

 

[Blue Marlin]

wonder why the Israeli Air Force with at least 3 potentially hostile neighbors never cared for or tried to source a bomber.

then again they do have something that pakistan doesnt, twin engines heavies in the case of the israelis its the f15. pakistan lacks this type of fighter and should be the "bomber" in question, india is next door not across the pond like the russia and the yanks.

theres no need for a heavy bomber infact a medium sized long range drone would do the job just fine. its cheap, so you can buy alot and there's no risk to loss of life( in case of the pakistanis)

 

[PakShaheen79]

Absolutely wonderful and very relevant threat. Yes. PAF need tactical and strategic strike aerial platforms. H-6 is old story to me, we must join a project like H-20 now.

H-20
A new long-range strategic bomber design (H-20?) has been under development at 603 Institute/XAC since early 2000s. Various configurations were studied in detail. One configuration was a supersonic bomber with a conventional design (delta wings with canards?), another was a 4-engine subsonic stealth flying wing design similar to American B-2. Scale-down models were built. By 2011 the overall configuration was finalized which appears be the flying wing design. Some of the technology including the design of flying wing, dorsal engine intake and exhaust as well as the flight control system might have gained some help from the experience of the Sharp Sword UCAV. The engine is likely to be the modified WS-10 without A/B. The aircraft is expected to feature an AESA radar with twin conformal antennas below the leading wing edges similar to American AN/APQ-181 LPI radar. For armaments it can carry KD-20/DF-10K ALCMs internally on a rotary launcher or conventional bombs on bomb racks. H-20 is believed to be able to evade modern air defence systems and penetrate deep into the enemy territory. It was reported in March 2013 that the development of H-20 (referred to as the "strategic project") is gaining full speed at 603/XAC after the successful flight of Y-20. It was reported in November 2015 that the aircraft could feature twin dorsal S-shaped engine intakes with saw tooth lips similar to those of B-2. Consequently the engines are sunk into the main wing structure to further reduce the RCS. It was reported in December 2015 that a 3D digital prototype was built. It was reported in February 2017 that the QC platform of the digital prototype was built. The first prototype could fly as early as 2019. The latest rumor (August 2017) claimed that the first prototype (or a flying wing technology demonstrator?) rolled down the assembly line at XAC on June 8, 2017 but this has not been confirmed.
-Last updated 8/15/17
http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

then again they do have something that pakistan doesnt, twin engines heavies in the case of the israelis its the f15. pakistan lacks this type of fighter and should be the "bomber" in question, india is next door not across the pond like the russia and the yanks.

theres no need for a heavy bomber infact a medium sized long range drone would do the job just fine. its cheap, so you can buy alot and there's no risk to loss of life( in case of the pakistanis)

Sir India is huge, We will need a super drone in achieving what we want to achieve here. But I agree that first we must concentrate on tactical strike platforms like SU-35. Twin engine Multi roles who can take role of tactical strike platform due to its load carrying and IFR capabilities. So far, PAF's tactical strike squadrons are operating Mirages which must be replaced by something in the class of Flankers.

 

[FunkyGen]

How About Investing In Hypersonic Weapons and Anti Ballistic Missile Tech.
Anyone?
Anyone...?
?

 

[WebMaster]

Too much $$ and maintenance for its purpose. F-16 will do the job for a foreseeable future.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Absolutely wonderful and very relevant threat. Yes. PAF need tactical and strategic strike aerial platforms. H-6 is old story to me, we must join a project like H-20 now.

H-20
A new long-range strategic bomber design (H-20?) has been under development at 603 Institute/XAC since early 2000s. Various configurations were studied in detail. One configuration was a supersonic bomber with a conventional design (delta wings with canards?), another was a 4-engine subsonic stealth flying wing design similar to American B-2. Scale-down models were built. By 2011 the overall configuration was finalized which appears be the flying wing design. Some of the technology including the design of flying wing, dorsal engine intake and exhaust as well as the flight control system might have gained some help from the experience of the Sharp Sword UCAV. The engine is likely to be the modified WS-10 without A/B. The aircraft is expected to feature an AESA radar with twin conformal antennas below the leading wing edges similar to American AN/APQ-181 LPI radar. For armaments it can carry KD-20/DF-10K ALCMs internally on a rotary launcher or conventional bombs on bomb racks. H-20 is believed to be able to evade modern air defence systems and penetrate deep into the enemy territory. It was reported in March 2013 that the development of H-20 (referred to as the "strategic project") is gaining full speed at 603/XAC after the successful flight of Y-20. It was reported in November 2015 that the aircraft could feature twin dorsal S-shaped engine intakes with saw tooth lips similar to those of B-2. Consequently the engines are sunk into the main wing structure to further reduce the RCS. It was reported in December 2015 that a 3D digital prototype was built. It was reported in February 2017 that the QC platform of the digital prototype was built. The first prototype could fly as early as 2019. The latest rumor (August 2017) claimed that the first prototype (or a flying wing technology demonstrator?) rolled down the assembly line at XAC on June 8, 2017 but this has not been confirmed.
-Last updated 8/15/17
http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

Simipliy no, China have something doesn't mean that we will get eventually, it is going to be their strategic weapon, how can it be possible that China will sell it to pakistan @PakShaheen79

 

[PakShaheen79]

Simipliy no, China have something doesn't mean that we will get eventually, it is going to be their strategic weapon, how can it be possible that China will sell it to pakistan @PakShaheen79

You are absolutely right. That's why I wrote, "Project 'like' H-20" ... which means a similar program not the same. and they will never seel H-6 bombers as well. We are having a purely theoretical debate here to see if there exists a case of a strategic bomber for Pakistan to which I believe that as we are faced with a much bigger adversary we need one. To add more to it, if we consider the language of Trump, I think our threat matrix has grown too bigger and we need some platforms in our arsenal have the range and punch to deter the aerial threat.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You are absolutely right. That's why I wrote, "Project 'like' H-20" ... which means a similar program not the same. and they will never seel H-6 bombers as well. We are having a purely theoretical debate here to see if there exists a case of a strategic bomber for Pakistan to which I believe that as we are faced with a much bigger adversary we need one. To add more to it, if we consider the language of Trump, I think our threat matrix has grown too bigger and we need some platforms in our arsenal have the range and punch to deter the aerial threat.

there are rumors that there two bomber project running in China one of these is H-20 and other will be regional bomber to replace H-6 with supersonic capability we should go this project if possible @PakShaheen79

 

[denel]

You are absolutely right. That's why I wrote, "Project 'like' H-20" ... which means a similar program not the same. and they will never seel H-6 bombers as well. We are having a purely theoretical debate here to see if there exists a case of a strategic bomber for Pakistan to which I believe that as we are faced with a much bigger adversary we need one. To add more to it, if we consider the language of Trump, I think our threat matrix has grown too bigger and we need some platforms in our arsenal have the range and punch to deter the aerial threat.

Remember Tu-16 was pretty much available to many airforces during the Soviet times including Tu-22. H6 is not really a strategic bomber in the real sense; Chinese modified Tu-16 extensively which you can read about. What is being suggested is alcm carrier; multiple not single. However that said, question is for the need. Is there one>?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Considering

Russia
China
USA

And many other countries fly Bombers , I think we are being shallow minded by not obsering the valueable role for Bomber fleet even 4-6 units in inventroy is great addition.

They fly bombers bcuz they have massive air forces with relatively advanced jets and can establish their air superiority over their foes. This clears the way for bombers to be more effective. For Pakistan bombers would be useful of course but considering IAF's hundreds of Su30, Mirage2000 and others, it would be extremely hard to carry out bombing missions with a bomber like H6 deep into enemy territory. H6 would be easily detected and intercepted...it would be an easy target even with escorting jets. It's best chance would be to fire stand off munitions from inside Pak air space or make very shallow thrusts into Indian air space so that it can drop its payload and turn around before the enemy has a chance to scramble their jets/intercept, which really reduces its usefulness. A stealth bomber escorted by stealth air superiority jets would stand a better chance at carrying out bombing runs deep inside enemy territory, both of which can be very costly.

Bombers shouldn't be the first priority right now. Block III, Azm, MALE drone project are on going right now and will take most of the funds...if still there's any funds remaining then Pak forces should really go for long range SAM systems

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think we must keep in mind that strategic bomber's presence adds to power projection capabilities which is important political capital for any nation. Indians are already exploring this option.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/07/india-seeks-four-strategic-bombers-from.html

 

[Ultima Thule]

They fly bombers bcuz they have massive air forces with relatively advanced jets and can establish their air superiority over their foes. This clears the way for bombers to be more effective. For Pakistan bombers would be useful of course but considering IAF's hundreds of Su30, Mirage2000 and others, it would be extremely hard to carry out bombing missions with a bomber like H6 deep into enemy territory. H6 would be easily detected and intercepted...it would be an easy target even with escorting jets. It's best chance would be to fire stand off munitions from inside Pak air space or make very shallow thrusts into Indian air space so that it can drop its payload and turn around before the enemy has a chance to scramble their jets/intercept, which really reduces its usefulness. A stealth bomber escorted by stealth air superiority jets would stand a better chance at carrying out bombing runs deep inside enemy territory, both of which can be very costly.

Bombers shouldn't be the first priority right now. Block III, Azm, MALE drone project are on going right now and will take most of the funds...if still there's any funds remaining then Pak forces should really go for long range SAM systems

No sir you forget the Indian SAMs, and you forget S-400 SAMs sir they neutralize our jets, RAAD, BABAR allover Pakistan, think that Pakistani H-6 flying over Gawadar which is out of reach the S-400 and fire 3-4 volley of extended range version of BABAR or RAAD with a range of 1500 km and compare the length of total Pakistani coast of 1000 km it will destroy S-300/400 and other SAMs sites,and other infrastructural deep inside India, think @Cookie Monster sir