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Saviour In Melancholy… Thank You Pak Army!

There are a few ways to look at it.

Firstly, a soldier obeys command of officer, so whatever your beloved soldier does is the wish of the officer. This means that soldier is just a robot while the officer you hate so much is the one controlling the robot. You may love the robot all you want but that robot is doing however officer controls it.

Secondly, in PA, soldier or NCO are dependent on officer for all guidelines so an officer is always with them in the front lines, right in the face of combat which is why so many captains, majors, Lt Cols, even red tapers like Brig, Maj Gen (GOCs) become causalities in the frontlines. These "treacherous" officers can base their HQs 100km behind the frontlines, yet they don't. These officers move along with their soldiers to the frontlines. You must have seen in news and on PDF posted news that along with a soldier, an officer also becomes a causality.
This is why whether you want to absorb this fact or not, the soldier and officer are inseparable. You love one, but the other cannot be ignored even 1% coz the one you love is 100% controlled by the another. Ponder on it coz your logic is not logical at all.

About selling Pakistan to America:
The gains from America have to be tangible and lucrative such as giving an edge over India somehow through F-16s, through American EW, Tanks, newer artillery, newer long range weapons etc. While look at military procurement, its all Chinese tanks and weapons and aircrafts. Its not 80's anymore that PA is dependent on USA weaponry neither Pakistan pursued CSF.
Secondly, another reason that American demands cannot be completely met is a mistrust between Pak-US relations and the Chinese presence. PA cannot make both USA and China happy at the same time, Chinese interests are chosen over American interests because of CPEC also, plus China gives out loans which USA doesn't.
Thirdly, for individual gains, there is plenty that is given out to military officers, more than civilian cadres like judiciary, Civil services etc, so making a buck over buck can lead to losing whatever PA has already given. Whereas, the plots etc given by PA on retirement is enough to buy land and settle abroad. Kickbacks through USA are non-existent because almost all deals are struck with China for military acquisition and the USA aid has ended a long time back. Some programs with USA are still active like academic exchange, postings in some US defense positions like Centcom etc, deployments like TF-150/151 etc, and common training regimens are there. With deployment abroad, there is a payment in dollars, I can't remember the term for it, but its nominal and ends when the tenure abroad ends.
Lastly, bowing infront of USA by PA just doesn't happen coz IK says so.

The point to ponder is why doesn't military's own structure and system fail ?
Mutiny gets suppressed, operations becomes successful (Swat, Wana etc), the operational cycle of military continues, the weapon acquisition occurs every other year or so, the command in HQs remains intact, the command and control over soldiers, missiles and nuclear assets in unscathed - basically military's own system, even while at war on western front and an arch enemy sitting in east, keeps running without hinderance while the rest of the departments you have mentioned keep having issues with in themselves.

True that when military intervenes into political and civil avenues, a turmoil starts to brew which sometimes military also cannot control, but then why aren't these departments themselves strong like military, that no fingers can be pointed towards their internal structure. Look at military's internal structure, a divisional formation structure or a HQ structure, it just doesn't fail, it delivers whatever GHQ asks of it. Whereas, look at police the fragile police structure or reforms, the inconsistent judicial structure since law is weak in Pakistan, the bureaucracy whose structure is birthed from British norms too but is affected by political strings.

When military brings its own operational strategy into civil departments like Wapda, the effects are insignificant, since the way EME operates is not how Wapda functions and the military "danda" can maybe solve 25% of Wapda chronic issues. Then to say that all the departments of Pakistan are functioning below-par because of Army rule or Army intervention is utter nonsense too, since:
1. Army never gave orders to PIA, Wapda etc to perform below par, to use their equipment for Army, to fire their employees, to cut down their budget, to make or break their policies which constitutes financial damage.
2. Army tried its SOPs in these departments but results were not as expected such as in Musharraf era.
3. These departments were still operational during democratic years when Army intervention into these departments was non-existent yet they failed to perform.

The influence that Army held on judiciary, police, bureaucracy etc is detrimental but its controversial from both sides, not just Army's side so pointing out just Army is unfair. IK's debacle regarding this has been discussed to death however its a give 'n' take policy, if Army asks something, it has to give at some place also, which makes it tricky as the last avenue to choose where an intervention occurs.

The conclusion is that Army has its own way of doing things and those methods cannot be used in civilian or political structure, this what makes political engineering or intervention a dangerous step.
OK let's simplfy this

You are talking command

Everyone is talking corruption.

You are PDF THINK TANK CONSULTANT....yet your needle is stuck.

No one gives a damn about their command. Its their damn job and only job they should be doing. But they are busy with politics and dha and bakeries and licking NS and zardaris behind.
We saw their command in East pakistan. They were caught sleeping in saichen. Both lost and no attempt at command to get it back. Useless metric pass.

So please get of the command of the officer and obedience of the soldier.

Talk about the thieving, stealing corrupt, *** lickers that are the senior officers who are alcohol drinkers and even serve pork to foreign dignitaries when they visit pakistan. Yes pork as in wild boar. How do I know this....well bro let's say everyone has men in uniform in their midst.
 
Signalian writes nice articles. Unfortunately, it’s hard to read more than a couple of lines. All we want to know is when the lawless generals will start following the constitution of Pakistan.
Your question looks good when the rest of Pakistan states starts following constitution of Pakistan including politicians like IK, NS etc, judiciary, police, bureaucracy, government and semi government departments and the Pakistanis themselves.

Can you Make the above lawless pakistanis follow constitution of Pakistan ?
 
Your question looks good when the rest of Pakistan states starts following constitution of Pakistan including politicians like IK, NS etc, judiciary, police, bureaucracy, government and semi government departments and the Pakistanis themselves.

Can you Make the above lawless pakistanis follow constitution of Pakistan ?
You in yiu haste forgot to add the military.
And its us Pakistani that want a change for a better pakistan.
We want an end to all corruption and corruption in the military is the worst thing for any country.
 
OK let's simplfy this

You are talking command

Everyone is talking corruption.

You are PDF THINK TANK CONSULTANT....yet your needle is stuck.

No one gives a damn about their command. Its their damn job and only job they should be doing. But they are busy with politics and dha and bakeries and licking NS and zardaris behind.
We saw their command in East pakistan. They were caught sleeping in saichen. Both lost and no attempt at command to get it back. Useless metric pass.

So please get of the command of the officer and obedience of the soldier.

Talk about the thieving, stealing corrupt, *** lickers that are the senior officers who are alcohol drinkers and even serve pork to foreign dignitaries when they visit pakistan. Yes pork as in wild boar. How do I know this....well bro let's say everyone has men in uniform in their midst.
It’s hard for someone from a civilian background to understand the basics of military which is “command” and other things like control, leadership, orders etc.

So unless you understand how the basics in military works, how can you jump ahead.

This is why army has been compared and discussed wrongly like just any other organisation. Also why army and generals are judged based on the outside perception of the members of PDF, they haven been inside it and the media is only one that’s the source of information which is taken a word of God.

Obviously then the rest of PDF will have clash with myself, Blain and PK coz we tell how things happen in military and why they happen like that, which you ppl can’t digest and get instant diarrhoea which is then shown in words of hatred and insults.

Army will not mould itself or change itself how PDF members want it. It’s an operational system in place and while its policies change from time to time, the divide of comprehending it will be there between outsider members and the members who have been part of it personally.

Then threads pop up like why generals did this ? Why is GHQ like this etc ?

At least don’t shoot the messenger, which is a norm on PDF. You can’t handle the information, it’s not others problem.

You in yiu haste forgot to add the military.
And its us Pakistani that want a change for a better pakistan.
We want an end to all corruption and corruption in the military is the worst thing for any country.
Military isn’t the worst unfortunately. Others outnumber it in corruption, politicians being the top most and a clerk being the lowest leg.
 
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Don’t want to derail this thread.

So the gist of it is.

Martial law by military - Fault of civilians as they don’t have strong institutions.

Military involvement in politics - Politicians are corrupt and invite military in the mess. Military is innocent.

Military is corrupt - they have to eat too. Malik Riaz only employs them as consultants hence its not corruption.

Military officers are subservient to foreign countries - Military toys need to be bought hence subservience is needed.
 
a shame the armed forces are now not protecting the sanctity of the supreme court!

They can physically stop unruly protestors but side idle and also encourage verbal attacks on the supreme court by crooked politicians
 

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