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Russian's view on F-22 Farnborough Flight Demo

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PlSWM4jyE-Y[/media] - F-22 Farnborough Flight Demo

Vladimir Karnozov, Flight's Moscow-based correspondent, got the Russian perspective on the F-22 flying display on Monday. Excerpted below are quotes from the article appearing in next week's magazine.


Going back to the Raptor, [Su-30MKi/MKA/MKM project manager Aleksandr] Barkovsky said that generally speaking the Su-30MKI performance is largely similar, "but we did it ten years ago".

The Su-35 with 16% more power and a bit less structural weight will perform somewhat better than the Raptor and the Su-30MKI. Touching on the Raptor's flat spin recovery maneuver, Barkovsky said the F-22A made only three-third of the 360-degree arc before attempting recovery with vectored thrust. "We demonstrated flat spin recovery after 2 - 3 circles. Besides, we used thrust vectoring to change direction of the spin rotation and then recovered. They are still to demonstrate that".

Barkovsky also said that from his viewpoint the potential of the F-22A platform is not fully exploited yet, so that Lokcheed Martin has something to work on. Ultimately, the US maker shall be able to offer air show visitors a more spectacular demonstration when the Raptor potential is fully exploited by its flight control system".

The Russian fighters use round-shaped nozzles that are part of their engines, while on the Raptor's flat nozzles are a part of the airframe. "Their design solution give them more ability to fool infrared missiles", the Su-30MKI chief designer said.

...

The Su-35 is classified as "transitional type" from fourth to fifth generation fighters, a bridge-gapping measure before Russia's PAK FA fifth generation fighter becomes available. Russian air force commander Gen. Aleksandr Zelin expects its prototype to fly in 2009 and pass trials in 2013. Zelin came to Farnborough to watch performance of the Raptor in the company of Sukhoi general director Mikhail Pogosyan. Zelin told the media on the eve of the show that "from what we have seen", the F-22A does not exceed the Su-35 in maneuverable fight performance.

In his turn Mikhail Pogosyan said the Su-35 is not a match for the F-22A, but the PAK FA shall match it. He added that the cycle of the fifth generation fighter development takes 7-10 years. "Not all of our customers will go for the fifth generation fighter due to its high complexity and costs. They may find the Su-35 meeting their needs". He predicts the market for more than 200 Su-35s in 2011-2020 time frame. He further said that production of the Su-35 can run in parallel with that of the PAK FA "for several years".
 
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So PAK-FA is an answer to F22A, then what will be the answer for JSF, MiG1.44?
 
So PAK-FA is an answer to F22A, then what will be the answer for JSF, MiG1.44?

actually the russians want PAKFA to be an answer to both F-22 and F-35 (btw, F-35 is no longer called JSF. Its name now is the Lightening 2). i dont see how though. Its just something i remember reading in Janes Defence Weekly,
 
actually the russians want PAKFA to be an answer to both F-22 and F-35 (btw, F-35 is no longer called JSF. Its name now is the Lightening 2). i dont see how though. Its just something i remember reading in Janes Defence Weekly,

So will the PAK FA will perform the role of nasalized JSF (F35 or lightening 2) also, seems to be an ambitious goal. And F22 is an air dominance fighter F35 is a multirole fighter.
 
Touching on the Raptor's flat spin recovery maneuver, Barkovsky said the F-22A made only three-third of the 360-degree arc before attempting recovery with vectored thrust. "We demonstrated flat spin recovery after 2 - 3 circles. Besides, we used thrust vectoring to change direction of the spin rotation and then recovered. They are still to demonstrate that".

Are all these "stunts" still important in this age of AWACS and BVR missiles!

In the current situation, there are not likely to be any close run dog-fights. Most kills will happen without the pilots even seeing the other plane.

Do all these maneuvers really matter in today's world except making a nice display at the air-expo?
 
So PAK-FA is an answer to F22A, then what will be the answer for JSF, MiG1.44?

From the article I conclude that Su-35 could be the answer to JSF, only feature missing is stealth capability.
 
So PAK-FA is an answer to F22A, then what will be the answer for JSF, MiG1.44?

unfortunately PAK-FA "Su-XX" as of 2015-202* will be the only 5th generation Stealth fighter that Russia will produce and actually induct them in big numbers unlike Su-30 series that are in limited service with RuAF.. Su-47, Mig-1.44 and PAK-FA or "Su-XX" are contenders for 5th generation fighter.. T-50 is the winner and Both India and Brazil are providing $$ for the project..
 
Are all these "stunts" still important in this age of AWACS and BVR missiles!

In the current situation, there are not likely to be any close run dog-fights. Most kills will happen without the pilots even seeing the other plane.

Do all these maneuvers really matter in today's world except making a nice display at the air-expo?

BVR missiles are ok, but the point is "Till the opposition plane have a gun you should have one too" so the dogfights are not going to be outdated soon, if BVR missiles could have been so accurate then we will be seeing gliders with BVR missiles and launching at each other.
 
BVR missiles are ok, but the point is "Till the opposition plane have a gun you should have one too" so the dogfights are not going to be outdated soon, if BVR missiles could have been so accurate then we will be seeing gliders with BVR missiles and launching at each other.

I see what you are saying. But I really don't see such expensive birds really getting into a dog-fight. They will almost always work in an AWACS environment where the emphasis will be on getting into advantageous positions and finishing the enemy before he even knows you are there.

So the maneaurability is not nearly as important as it once was. It is the range and accuracy of your BVRs and the support systems on your side (particularly the AWACS and EW suites) that will determine the outcome.
 
I see what you are saying. But I really don't see such expensive birds really getting into a dog-fight. They will almost always work in an AWACS environment where the emphasis will be on getting into advantageous positions and finishing the enemy before he even knows you are there.

So the maneaurability is not nearly as important as it once was. It is the range and accuracy of your BVRs and the support systems on your side (particularly the AWACS and EW suites) that will determine the outcome.

Agree with you to a large extent, but I feel that the dogfights are going to stay and maneuverability will remain an important feature.
 
@ Vindo
In Stealth vs Stealth fighter scenario its most likely they will end up in dogfights or just beyond visual sight engagements!
 
unfortunately PAK-FA "Su-XX" as of 2015-202* will be the only 5th generation Stealth fighter that Russia will produce and actually induct them in big numbers unlike Su-30 series that are in limited service with RuAF.. Su-47, Mig-1.44 and PAK-FA or "Su-XX" are contenders for 5th generation fighter.. T-50 is the winner and Both India and Brazil are providing $$ for the project..

But as most navies looking for F35 as there fighter, wouldn't adapting PAKFA for a naval role will be a big challenge.
 
@ Vindo
In Stealth vs Stealth fighter scenario its most likely they will end up in dogfights or just beyond visual sight engagements!

Agree with you most probably these fighters are going to end up in dogfights.
 
@ Vindo
In Stealth vs Stealth fighter scenario its most likely they will end up in dogfights or just beyond visual sight engagements!

Theoretically, yes. Practically the stealth fighters would only be with a few restricted nations and chances of war between them are remote.
 
But as most navies looking for F35 as there fighter, wouldn't adapting PAKFA for a naval role will be a big challenge.

T-50 is just not designed for carriers use... and as for RuAF naval role fighters, Su-33 and Su-34 will be upgraded with stealth features..
 

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