Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[jhungary]

The war will end when America stops funding it. Period!

A Republican win is still very difficult: Look at what happened during the recent mid-term elections? Republican scraped by a thin majority despite all the woes affecting America. As long as Democrats keep giving freebies: Illegal immigration, student loan write off and various other goodies to different segments of the society, Democrats have a very good chance. But then the Republicans, in their current form, are only slightly less war-mongering. When it comes to bombing the crap out of people far away, they are alike. And why not? War is big business in America!!

I posted a video of Steve Bannon above. There is still hope if his minority MAGA voice makes a difference.

It actually won't..

Us has given quite a lot of support, but the main drive is Europe, not US.

Europe gave Ukraine around 200 tanks, around 102 newer Leo 2 (88) and Challenger 2 (14). US gave 31

Europe gave Ukraine around 130 SPG (ex Soviet, former NATO stock and current NATO stock) US gave 40

Of the 30 MLRS system Ukraine have, around 11 are donated by Europe (4 UK MLRS, 7 German MLRS)

US only lead with HIMARS and M777, both were donated back in June, and since then, there aren't any new equipment donated by the US. On the other hand, EU spearhead the Tank donation with Poland and UK started the drive and now with Poland and Slovakia donating their Mig_29, they probably would also force US hand in donating fighter plane as well.

Most of the US donation are munition and reconstruction money, that alone can't sustain the war.

The problem is, EU cannot just leave it like that, because they know, it's either they gave Ukraine what they want or need to fight the Russian, or Ukraine failed and they have to deal with the Russian themselves, with US actually cooling about Europe and the state of EU military is more or less in a disarray, it will take EU more or less a decade to be able to fight the Russian. So it would be a lot cheaper for Europe to deal with Russia now simply giving Ukrainian what they want, then have to use their own military and deal with Russia themselves. that's what backing the war at the moment.

 

[ziaulislam]

I don't know why that guy dragged Pakistan into this war? From the comments, there are plenty of Pakistanis who hate Russia due to the once India-Russia alliance and the Soviet-Afghan war. Pakistan and most of the 'global South' don't have much of interest in this yet another European war beyond seeing this damned war stop because it is hurting the poor countries!!

My own interest is to see the NeoCons sitting in Washington humbled, removed from power and destroyed. They are the instigators and the engine of this war as they have been in most wars involving the Eurasian continent and the MENA region. And I firmly believe there are rising voices in America who see the danger of the 'Military Industrial Complex' going too far.

I paid around $20,000 in Federal and State taxes total in each of the last two years. Where is the benefit to me?? Damn war-mongers and the so-called 'veterans' got some of my money. Leeches. This needs to stop!

Europeans spend all their money on themselves and we get nothing

And I paid almost 60k in federal taxes..
No health care no education and not even infrastructure

Americans are angry with spending outside of America and if people sitting in Europe think otherwise they are buffoons

There will be a back lash of 200b$ spent in ukriane and it will be on debate soon

 

[ZeGerman]

And didn't Russia accept so many east European countries going to NATO since 1991? Was there no beginning of integration between Russia and Europe and so great events like the Sochi Olympics?? Has Russia not accepted Finland or Sweden going to NATO?? But Georgia and Ukraine were the redlines.

BTW, I don't blame the erstwhile Warsaw Pack countries joining the Western block!! Which crazy would want to be part of the Russian block given the ECONOMIC opportunities and freedoms in the Western block?!! Heck, given a choice, I'd rather live in Berlin than Moscow.

But you are missing my point altogether: Russia doesn't have the capabilities to take on NATO even if Russia had the desire!! The idea that Russia was going to march into western, or central Europe is perpetuated by the war mongers sitting in Washington, feeding on the European fears of a once expansionist Russia. Such fears are fueling this war and must be countered. And when will the continental Europe wake up and realize that the geographical advantage offered to the Americans (and the Anglos) were at least partly responsible for the two World Wars and may get Europe into another World War??

interesting read.

Russia could have joined NATO. But why didn't they do it? | TRT World

www.trtworld.com

germany/france really turned to diplomacy and trade with russia. And europe as a whole demilitarized immensely.
we did miss a window of opportunity of not integrating russia more…but this is not only due to american meddling …russia (putin) itself also turned authoritarian and more in opposition to the west.

russia is the one stooping down to ww2 style annexing countries however…with that putin crossed too many red lines.
Very unfortunate to have this new european war

 

[Meengla]

It actually won't..

Us has given quite a lot of support, but the main drive is Europe, not US.

Europe gave Ukraine around 200 tanks, around 102 newer Leo 2 (88) and Challenger 2 (14). US gave 31

Europe gave Ukraine around 130 SPG (ex Soviet, former NATO stock and current NATO stock) US gave 40

Of the 30 MLRS system Ukraine have, around 11 are donated by Europe (4 UK MLRS, 7 German MLRS)

US only lead with HIMARS and M777, both were donated back in June, and since then, there aren't any new equipment donated by the US. On the other hand, EU spearhead the Tank donation with Poland and UK started the drive and now with Poland and Slovakia donating their Mig_29, they probably would also force US hand in donating fighter plane as well.

Most of the US donation are munition and reconstruction money, that alone can't sustain the war.

The problem is, EU cannot just leave it like that, because they know, it's either they gave Ukraine what they want or need to fight the Russian, or Ukraine failed and they have to deal with the Russian themselves, with US actually cooling about Europe and the state of EU military is more or less in a disarray, it will take EU more or less a decade to be able to fight the Russian. So it would be a lot cheaper for Europe to deal with Russia now simply giving Ukrainian what they want, then have to use their own military and deal with Russia themselves. that's what backing the war at the moment.

You need to think above the weaponry and battle-field tactics, which you often seem to do in this thread--and with great many words. As I said once, you could write the 'Tilism e Hoshruba' original 8000 pages fictional story with your posts on this war alone!

Europe is 'giving' because America has asked them to 'contribute'. Nothing new. Trump had arm-twisted Europe into contributed more to NATO. You are confused between 'cause and effect' here. We can go back to the early 2022 to see that the continental European powers were trying to avoid the war while the Brits, as always being sheltered from the Continental wars, were the American poodles for the war.
Europe did nothing when Russia bombed Georgia and is still occupying parts of that country indirectly and Europe would have done NOTHING had there not been the American backing.

 

[Vergennes]

heeee hooooo

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638214403815292928

 

[Meengla]

germany/france really turned to diplomacy and trade with russia. And europe as a whole demilitarized immensely.
we did miss a window of opportunity of not integrating russia more…but this is not only due to american meddling …russia (putin) itself also turned authoritarian and more in opposition to the west.

russia is the one stooping down to ww2 style annexing countries however…with that putin crossed too many red lines.
Very unfortunate to have this new european war

Putin is a 'once in a century' guy. Had there been another Yeltsin or even Medvedev, things would have been different. They would have wisely seen that getting even into a proxy war against NATO would be eventually devastating for Russia; they probably would have eaten humble pies and be second fiddle to American corporate interests, just like all other European countries are! And how bad would that be?? Exploiting of resources, yes, but it wouldn't be the classic colonialism!!

 

[jhungary]

You need to think above the weaponry and battle-field tactics, which you often seem to do in this thread--and with great many words. As I said once, you could write the 'Tilism e Hoshruba' original 8000 pages fictional story with your posts on this war alone!

Europe is 'giving' because America has asked them to 'contribute'. Nothing new. Trump had arm-twisted Europe into contributed more to NATO. You are confused between 'cause and effect' here. We can go back to the early 2022 to see that the continental European powers were trying to avoid the war while the Brits, as always being sheltered from the Continental wars, were the American poodles for the war.
Europe did nothing when Russia bombed Georgia and is still occupying parts of that country indirectly and Europe would have done NOTHING had there not been the American backing.

You read the entire thing wrong, US weren't about to help Ukraine, not until BoJo step in and starting to give Ukraine what they need, US were giving Ukraine 200 Javelin before the war, without BoJo started to pump stuff (NLAW, Starstreak and so on) There won't be a war. No one care about America in Europe, and Trump aren't in power, and he is not going to be, the best thing for the Dem is Trump run again, because that would mean they would win.

Europe don't care about Georgia because Georgia is NOT in Europe backyard, Ukraine is. Or else why do you think Poland is currently pissing its pant and try to buy everything from everyone? from the American to the Korean?

EU are going to stick this one up with or without US, because they know the alternative is a lot more expensive and something they can't afford.

 

[Meengla]

You read the entire thing wrong, US weren't about to help Ukraine, not until BoJo step in and starting to give Ukraine what they need, US were giving Ukraine 200 Javelin before the war, without BoJo started to pump stuff (NLAW, Starstreak and so on) There won't be a war. No one care about America in Europe, and Trump aren't in power, and he is not going to be, the best thing for the Dem is Trump run again, because that would mean they would win.

Europe don't care about Georgia because Georgia is NOT in Europe backyard, Ukraine is. Or else why do you think Poland is currently pissing its pant and try to buy everything from everyone? from the American to the Korean?

EU are going to stick this one up with or without US, because they know the alternative is a lot more expensive and something they can't afford.

Borris Johnson? The Poodle?? What would he do without American prodding? Like Israel was once America's attack dog in the Middle East, the UK is America's attack dog in Europe.
Until about 2014, there was relative normalcy between Russia and Europe despite Russia eating the humble pies of letting so many erstwhile Warsaw Pack countries go to NATO. There was economic integration and indeed the Sochi Olympics highlighted a new integrated Europe. Something every Russian has wanted since Peter the Great: To be part of Europe! Russia, from the west of the Urals, belong to Europe and always wanted to. Did you see some months ago Lavrov said something like 'we wanted to be part of Europe but Europe has closed its doors on us we will look to Asia'.

Europe was going to 'stick this one up'?? Did you see the Steve Bannon interview I posted above where Steve said the UK might be able to put in ONE DIVISION into this conflict?? Steve has more real power than the Poodle Johnson, btw, because power resides in Washington and not in London!

 

[obj 705A]

Susanna Viljanen

Following 61 people. Asked 6 questions. Wrote 14595 answers.

www.quora.com

Is Russia a Western country?
Definitely not. Russia is an Asian country.

While Russian language is Slavic, Russians are whites by their race and Russian religion was Christianity before Communism killed it off, Russia is first and foremost the spiritual and societal heir of the Mongol Khanate. Russia slid irrevocably off the Western cultural sphere after 1237 and the Mongol Conquest, and the last vestiges of any Western heritage were obliterated in 1471 when Muscovy crushed Novgorod and destroyed it for good. The 243 years of the Mongol Yoke from 1237 to 1480 did Mongolicize Russia thoroughly. The irony is, of course, that today’s Mongolia is a rather nice and civil place, and would be one of the Economic Tigers if there wasn’t the widespread alcoholism problem.
It is far harder to define “what is Asian” rather than “what is Western”, but Russia definitely is not a Western country, and Russia relates to anything Western with utter hostility.
Let us inspect what makes Russia a non-Western country:

• Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This is a form of government which has never really existed in the West, but is extremely common in Asia. In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, all power, both violence, economic and societal, are concentrated to one man, and everything radiates from him, and the country is considered to be his personal property. The ruler is above the law. This is an astonishingly stable form of statehood, and immune to any attempts to reform it. It really doesn’t matter if we call the ruler as Czar, Emperor, Premier or President, the system is just the one and the same.
• Never having had either Feudalism nor Capitalism. Russia has never had either Feudal nor a Capitalist society. Russia has never experienced a form of statehood where the aristocrats or the entrepreneurs are independent from the ruler and being independent and self-standing. There has never been any checking power to the ruler and his power. There has never been anything like Magna Charta in Russia.
• No rule of law. The ruler and his cronies are above any laws, and there is no independent jurisprudence. The judges and prosecutors exist solely as tools of the ruler to punish anyone who protests against the ruler. The law exists solely to prop up the state apparatus. Russia can be best described as an anarchotyranny - anarchy for crooks, tyranny for law-abiding peasants.
• No civil society. Everything is dependent of the ruler, and there can be no independent organizations of individual citizens. The control of the state is total - it extends from the top of the society all the way to the peasant level.
• Totally corrupt from the bottom level to the top. This is a part and parcel for all Authoritarian Patrimonialisms, but Russia has turned the knob up to eleven. As the only ways for the ruler to keep the cronies in control are punishments and favours and there is no rule of law, it means eveyrone steals and embezzles. Punitive measures follow only if someone steals too much or from a wrong person.
• Macho honour culture, toxic masculinity and adoration of violent behaviour. While Westerners usually consider a violent fist hero as a dork, the Russian ideal of muzhik, “good man”, is of someone who cajoles with his higher-ups and keeps anyone below him in control with fists. Russian men display all the properties of machismo and toxic masculinity, and family violence is a non-issue as it is considered “keeping up home discipline”.
• Widespread alcoholism and drug abuse. How do they drink vodka in Northern countries? In Sweden - with water. In Finland - without water. In Russia - like water. Alcohol is a coping mechanism, in Sweden and Russia because the winter sucks here, but in Russia because everything sucks.
• Abject poverty aside astonishing opulence. The ordinary Russian has always been poor as a church mouse, while the cronies of the ruler have always been rich beyond any measures - because they get the opportunity to steal. Since the lack of the rule of law and lack of the civil society and total societal rottenness make any long term plans to get wealthy impossible, the Russians appreciate conspicuous consumption above all - to display you’re on a lucky streak now. No use to save anything because all your assets can be seized at any moment.
• Ethical bigotry. No tolerance for sexual or gender minorities, no tolerance for Hippies or similar alternative lifestyle, no tolerance for Liberal or Libertarian mindset, no tolerance for independent opinions or any dissidence. A nail standing up gets beaten in.
• No middle class. The ordinary Russian has always been a peasant and poor as a church mouse, while those in favour of the ruler are opulent beyond any measures. One of the features of Feudalism was the rise of independent cities and city bourgeoisie and middle class. There has never been a middle class in Russia - just the dirt poor peasants and filthy rich upper class. Instead there has been a lot of middleman minorities - Jews, Armenians, Georgians, Latvians and Finns.
• No independent media. Independent media - the watchdog of the rulers - is an integral part of the Western society. It is an absolute no-no in Russia - everything is controlled by the state.
• No human rights. None. Full stop. The Russians consider the concept of human rights as a devious plot to weaken the sacred fatherland and limit the omnipotence of the ruler, and demolish the power structure based on subjugation and physical violence.
• Total blend of state, businessmen and organized crime. Russia can best be described as a mafia which has its own state and peasantry. The government sets a blind eye on the organized crime as long as it can use it to perform dirty operations both home and abroad, and the line between mafia bosses and Russian businessmen is one drawn on water.
• Concept that Russia is perpetually in war with West. This is an important feature. For Westerners, there is war and there is peace. For the Russians, there isn’t. There are only various stages of conflict, varying from coerced armstice to all-out bang-bang war. Russia experiences it is perpetually in war with West, and relates to West with hostility, enhancing it with dirty operations, state vandalism, assassinations, sabotages and cyber assaults - all the time poking where West might be weak.

The Western world is the heir of Greek philosophy, Roman jurisprudence, Christianity and Enlightment.

Russia is the heir of Genghis Khan.

Russia never claimes to be a western country and no one ever claims Russia to be a western country. So the question of is Russia a western country or not is a stupid a question.

Russia is an east European country with several non European ethnic minorities.

And by the way you know that country you chear for that is called Ukraine? Ukraine has been part of Russia (whether it's the Russian empire or the USSR) for such a long time till just 30 years ago. They are both the same people and they speak the same language and have the same traditions. Whether you talk about corruption or "Toxic masculinity" or the presence of poor peasants while there are filthy rich oligarchs.. all these things are present in Ukraine as much as they do in Russia if not more.

By the way you talk about Genghis Khan as if he was some failed leader. Genghis Khan was one of the most powerful leaders mankind has ever seen to the point where still to this day his name inspires awe and respect, he was one of the most powerful men of the human race that his name will live on for hundreds of years.

Having said that no Russia or Putin is not the heir to Genghis Khan, because if Russia was the heir to him then Lvov would have already been vaporized on day one of the invasion.

No rule of law. The ruler and his cronies are above any laws, and there is no independent jurisprudence. The judges and prosecutors exist solely as tools of the ruler to punish anyone who protests against the ruler. The law exists solely to prop up the state apparatus. Russia can be best described as an anarchotyranny - anarchy for crooks, tyranny for law-abiding peasants.

Joe Biden raped Tara Reade and yet he faced no consequences because of his political influences so what rule of law are you talking about?

No independent media. Independent media - the watchdog of the rulers - is an integral part of the Western society. It is an absolute no-no in Russia - everything is controlled by the state.

Julian Assange at this moment is being prosecuted and tortured for his journalistic activity just because they want to make an example out of him to other journalists and you talk about independent media? In the US you are allowed to criticize establishment people as long you are just critisizing superficial things like their hairstyle or something but if you dare expose the crimes of establishment hacks then you are fked.

Concept that Russia is perpetually in war with West. This is an important feature. For Westerners, there is war and there is peace. For the Russians, there isn’t. There are only various stages of conflict, varying from coerced armstice to all-out bang-bang war. Russia experiences it is perpetually in war with West, and relates to West with hostility, enhancing it with dirty operations, state vandalism, assassinations, sabotages and cyber assaults - all the time poking where West might be weak.

The west for several decades has been in a cold war with Russia/USSR and have convinced their people that the commies are out to get them at any time.
And then even after the cold war ended the US convinced it's people that they need to be in a perpetual state of war with outside forces of terror and with the "axis of evil". And then the US establishment went back to trying to convince the American people that the Russians are out to get them and overthrow their democracy. So if you talk about people being propagandized in to believing there is war and danger everywhere then look no further than at the people in the US.

 

[Iñigo]

Copy and paste hear this text about this tragedy

"This war could and should have been avoided, Ukraine could have had the best of both worlds simply by being neutral, they had trade with Russia and unlimited supplies of energy, the Russians did not want Ukraine to be an associate member of the EU, but were willing to recognize their right to EU membership.The bright red lines were the military alliance and NATO membership, most US Ambassadors and political Scientists warned the US government that Ukrainian membership of NATO was a bad move, some saying it meant war with Russia. A couple of days before the invasion, both Biden and Stoltenberg insisted that Ukraine will be a member of NATO, and that the US ignore Russian concerns. Now Ukraine will be destroyed, in my opinion NATO troops will not be on the ground to rescue Ukraine from this US led catastrophe. Hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides, for nothing."

 

[jhungary]

Borris Johnson? The Poodle?? What would he do without American prodding? Like Israel was once America's attack dog in the Middle East, the UK is America's attack dog in Europe.
Until about 2014, there was relative normalcy between Russia and Europe despite Russia eating the humble pies of letting so many erstwhile Warsaw Pack countries go to NATO. There was economic integration and indeed the Sochi Olympics highlighted a new integrated Europe. Something every Russian has wanted since Peter the Great: To be part of Europe! Russia, from the west of the Urals, belong to Europe and always wanted to. Did you see some months ago Lavrov said something like 'we wanted to be part of Europe but Europe has closed its doors on us we will look to Asia'.

First of all, if you call 1997 Tajik war, 1999 Chechen War, 2004 Azerbakia War, 2008 Georgian War are "being Humble" that only mean you have a weird meaning of what is considered Humble.

Russia wanting to be in the big European League is not the same as them being humble and dropping every bit of ambition of being aggressive. I am going to spare you the history between Ukraine and Russia. Russia don't want to be part of Europe, Russia want Europe. That's what imperialist do, which is what Russian are.

And this BoJo did a lot more than what you think, if you ask any Ukrainian, they will say it's Bojo who save their ***, when Bojo is sending NLAW and Starstreak, Biden ask Zelenskyy if he wanted a ride, that's probably summed up the situation.

What you failed to see is, if US is pulling the string, they wouldn't wait for European response before they send anything to Ukraine, US have thousand of M1 Abrams in Aberdeen, the American could have just send it without EU consent. If US is pulling the string, it would make sense for Germany to send tanks if and only if US match its offered, but it wouldn't make sense for US to ask for Germany to send the Leo 2 as well, as if US alone does not process enough stuff to beat back the Russian.

Europe was going to 'stick this one up'?? Did you see the Steve Bannon interview I posted above where Steve said the UK might be able to put in ONE DIVISION into this conflict?? Steve has more real power than the Poodle Johnson, btw, because power resides in Washington and not in London!

Your first mistake is you listen to Steve Bannon, the guy who was betrayed by Trump and still don't know shit. A typical Boso, if you want to learn soemthing about US politics, go listen to this John Bolton interview,

 

[Solidify]

Russia Sends 'Robot tanks' To The Battlefield, Equipped With AI capabilities​

Source

Russia's S-500 but portable units - Capable Of Tearing Apart Drones & Fast Moving Airborne Targets​

 

[Meengla]

First of all, if you call 1997 Tajik war, 1999 Chechen War, 2004 Azerbakia War, 2008 Georgian War are "being Humble" that only mean you have a weird meaning of what is considered Humble.

Russia wanting to be in the big European League is not the same as them being humble and dropping every bit of ambition of being aggressive. I am going to spare you the history between Ukraine and Russia. Russia don't want to be part of Europe, Russia want Europe. That's what imperialist do, which is what Russian are.

And this BoJo did a lot more than what you think, if you ask any Ukrainian, they will say it's Bojo who save their ***, when Bojo is sending NLAW and Starstreak, Biden ask Zelenskyy if he wanted a ride, that's probably summed up the situation.

What you failed to see is, if US is pulling the string, they wouldn't wait for European response before they send anything to Ukraine, US have thousand of M1 Abrams in Aberdeen, the American could have just send it without EU consent. If US is pulling the string, it would make sense for Germany to send tanks if and only if US match its offered, but it wouldn't make sense for US to ask for Germany to send the Leo 2 as well, as if US alone does not process enough stuff to beat back the Russian.



Your first mistake is you listen to Steve Bannon, the guy who was betrayed by Trump and still don't know shit. A typical Boso, if you want to learn soemthing about US politics, go listen to this John Bolton interview,

Reading your 'Tilism e Hoshruba' posts here had already already started to give me headaches many months ago and now they are migraines!

"First of all, if you call 1997 Tajik war, 1999 Chechen War, 2004 Azerbakia War, 2008 Georgian War are "being Humble" that only mean you have a weird meaning of what is considered Humble." What are you rambling about?? Mere referencing to wars decades before this war? How about more recent developments like Russia's increasing integration with Europe until the events of 2014?? And John Bolton??!! The guy is the more hated in America by both Right and Left than anyone else I know of!!!

Please listen and listen for once and all: The moment America decides to defund this war, this war will be over. Your Johnson Poodle as did other NATO members packed up even before Americans left Afghanistan in August 2021. Do you EVER pay attention to events or power of nations--or lack of power??

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638226301558333448

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638227048547098635

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638230791392993280

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638231101041680390

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638239946866585607

 

[That Guy]

American elections are not majority based but state based.. and we all know where states are at..

It's not a popularity contest but contest of electoral votes

Trump lost to Clinton if you look at numbers of votes

I know, trust me I know the system very well.

Trump will lose the electoral college vote, we got indications of this during the mid term elections where the Republicans should have dominated, but ended up failing miserably.


That's if Trumpnis even allowed to contest future elections in the first place.