Russia and China may work together on nuclear-powered destroyer

[Optimos Prime IA]

Aircraft carriers are indeed kept out of the enemy's reach by virtue of its escorting vessels (which is why you see Beijing & Delhi building destroyers and frigates). I'm not sure why you are bringing up this point as all navies with air arms conform to that practice.

You can't have a salt water fish in fresh water tank .Its not suitable . Same goes with environment you have and vessels you can operate . If you ask me A/C for PLAN is not the way to go .As its already be under enemy's radar lock . Submarine is the best weapon for PLAN

There are SAM systems that were designed to deal with the BrahMos and the PLAN is deploying them.

Can you name them ? Detecting and destroying the salvos of subsonic cruise missiles itself a big ask . Now compare the difficulty to intercept sea skimming Supersonic Cruise missiles ! Where the detection and interception time is very less .In seconds. So arming SCS with brahmos will be our bargaining chip against Chinese involvements with Pakistan . And seriously undermine PLAN in big time. Couple of Russian SAM and Coupled with Brahmos shore based missile will pose a great threat

 

[Akasa]

You can't have a salt water fish in fresh water tank .Its not suitable . Same goes with environment you have and vessels you can operate . If you ask me A/C for PLAN is not the way to go .As its already be under enemy's radar lock . Submarine is the best weapon for PLAN

As stated before, all carriers will be escorted by a plethora of vessels. All major navies that operate carriers carry out operations in this manner and the PLAN is no exception.

Can you name them ? Detecting and destroying the salvos of subsonic cruise missiles itself a big ask . Now compare the difficulty to intercept sea skimming Supersonic Cruise missiles ! Where the detection and interception time is very less .In seconds. So arming SCS with brahmos will be our bargaining chip against Chinese involvements with Pakistan . And seriously undermine PLAN in big time. Couple of Russian SAM and Coupled with Brahmos shore based missile will pose a great threat

HQ-9, HQ-16, FL-3000N, etc, are all naval SAM systems that are part of a vessels defensive net. That being said, it would be naive to think that Beijing has not analyzed ways to defeat them.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

As stated before, all carriers will be escorted by a plethora of vessels. All major navies that operate carriers carry out operations in this manner and the PLAN is no exception.

But for that have forward airbase to protect your shores like long range sukois . And so I don't see any use of A/C in PLAN inventory .

HQ-9, HQ-16, FL-3000N, etc, are all naval SAM systems that are part of a vessels defensive net. That being said, it would be naive to think that Beijing has not analyzed ways to defeat them.

I must say the air defense is one thing but air defense at sea which can kill brahmos is another thing . You must understand it technology or our technology is far more inferior to Americans at large and west in some areas .

Go through this :


Explained – Can The US Navy Can Shoot Down The Deadly BrahMos Missile? | Defencyclopedia


Their conclusion is that Laser defense system is theway to go for defending high maneuverable and high velocity wingless supersonic cruise missiles. Because by chance if you get a hit on winged version of missiles partially or heavily damaged the missile will sunk into the sea . But its not in the case of brahmos .Even though your Sam managed to inflict serious damage the debris will carry the momentum to damage its target . Thus making it one of the most dangerous Anti ship missile of the world . When US develop its laser defense system and induction is well over 2018 India will posses hypersonic brahmos cruise missile and Mini Brahms NG which gives Indian jets to carry multiple missiles .

So its not as easy as you think . Once Vietnam arms Its submarine with brahmos it will posses most capable submarine platform in the region .

 

[Akasa]

But for that have forward airbase to protect your shores like long range sukois . And so I don't see any use of A/C in PLAN inventory .

Forward bases cannot move unlike an aircraft carrier.

I must say the air defense is one thing but air defense at sea which can kill brahmos is another thing . You must understand it technology or our technology is far more inferior to Americans at large and west in some areas .

Go through this :


Explained – Can The US Navy Can Shoot Down The Deadly BrahMos Missile? | Defencyclopedia


Their conclusion is that Laser defense system is theway to go for defending high maneuverable and high velocity wingless supersonic cruise missiles. Because by chance if you get a hit on winged version of missiles partially or heavily damaged the missile will sunk into the sea . But its not in the case of brahmos .Even though your Sam managed to inflict serious damage the debris will carry the momentum to damage its target . Thus making it one of the most dangerous Anti ship missile of the world . When US develop its laser defense system and induction is well over 2018 India will posses hypersonic brahmos cruise missile and Mini Brahms NG which gives Indian jets to carry multiple missiles .

So its not as easy as you think . Once Vietnam arms Its submarine with brahmos it will posses most capable submarine platform in the region .

It may not be as easy as one think, but neither is evading a multilayered defense system that is designed to counteract the said weapon in the first place.

Regarding submarines, the PLAN has already built three Type 093G SSNs, each armed with vertically-launched YJ-18 missiles with supersonic stages and 540 km ranges.

 

[Beast]

But for that have forward airbase to protect your shores like long range sukois . And so I don't see any use of A/C in PLAN inventory .



I must say the air defense is one thing but air defense at sea which can kill brahmos is another thing . You must understand it technology or our technology is far more inferior to Americans at large and west in some areas .

Go through this :


Explained – Can The US Navy Can Shoot Down The Deadly BrahMos Missile? | Defencyclopedia


Their conclusion is that Laser defense system is theway to go for defending high maneuverable and high velocity wingless supersonic cruise missiles. Because by chance if you get a hit on winged version of missiles partially or heavily damaged the missile will sunk into the sea . But its not in the case of brahmos .Even though your Sam managed to inflict serious damage the debris will carry the momentum to damage its target . Thus making it one of the most dangerous Anti ship missile of the world . When US develop its laser defense system and induction is well over 2018 India will posses hypersonic brahmos cruise missile and Mini Brahms NG which gives Indian jets to carry multiple missiles .

So its not as easy as you think . Once Vietnam arms Its submarine with brahmos it will posses most capable submarine platform in the region .

If the wing of brahmos is clipped off and balance of missile is upset. It will veer off from it's course and even with momentum is useless, most likely the momentum will fly pass the bridge or miss by 30-50m.

That is why China has newest CWIS to fire as much 30mm rounds as possible to build a wall of defense to knock out super sonic ASM. We have test this concept in out CX-1 Mach 3 ASM which proves our new CWIS install onboard CV-16 and Type052D can handle it.

 

[rcrmj]

nonsense, as far as I know Russia is nowhere near the first club of navy technology now````only China, US and U.K is capable of developing and building most advanced battles ships independently nowadays

they might have a bit of dignity over the sky for short period of time to be honest

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Forward bases cannot move unlike an aircraft carrier.

In terms of carrier operations Chinese waters are very restricted. So the movement of carriers .Either u need to place it carriers to far east in pacific where US Navy placed its Pacific fleet or far southwest in IOR which is heavily guarded by IN eastern and Andaman fleet . U don't need carriers to operate from ur shores where SCS countries are locked your vessels already .That's the reason Chinese want its base in Pakistan and Africa .Even though IN has its most versatile western fleet . So I stick to my stand.PLANs carrier is very marginally effective .

It may not be as easy as one think, but neither is evading a multilayered defense system that is designed to counteract the said weapon in the first place.

Regarding submarines, the PLAN has already built three Type 093G SSNs, each armed with vertically-launched YJ-18 missiles with supersonic stages and 540 km ranges.

WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS OFFENSE . What I talked about is defense . Totally different from each other . And yes Submarine fleet should be the way to go for China and in SCS waters where water is very congested with many navies .

nonsense, as far as I know Russia is nowhere near the first club of navy technology now````only China, US and U.K is capable of developing and building most advanced battles ships independently nowadays

they might have a bit of dignity over the sky for short period of time to be honest

Either you are a kid or u must be crazy

 

[rcrmj]

But once Submarines are submerged they are hard to be detected and that's not the case for A/C or cruiser . And there is not SAM systems which can respond to Supersonic Cruise missiles like brahmos .Until Laser missile defense systems comes into place

your level of military knowledge can be as informed as a 8-year-old boy's understanding of adult's life``

your 'divine' brahmos is only divine in your ludicrous amateur newspapers and BINI (bragging institution of nonsense of India)

 

[Beast]

Either you are a kid or u must be crazy

He is not wrong. Russia has lost most of it shipyard capabilities after Soviet Union collapse. ukraine inherited many of Russia advance capabilities but lack of maintain and lost of scientist hamper everything. China is able to build large LPD on par with USS San Antonia class and is the only country after US to develop the unique Mark 41 VLS similar system which can house and fire a variety of missile system. This is sometime even the Russian has not demonstrated. There is a reason why Russian needs to buyistral LHD to facilitate the development of its own ship building capabilities.

 

[Akasa]

In terms of carrier operations Chinese waters are very restricted. So the movement of carriers .Either u need to place it carriers to far east in pacific where US Navy placed its Pacific fleet or far southwest in IOR which is heavily guarded by IN eastern and Andaman fleet . U don't need carriers to operate from ur shores where SCS countries are locked your vessels already .That's the reason Chinese want its base in Pakistan and Africa .Even though IN has its most versatile western fleet . So I stick to my stand.PLANs carrier is very marginally effective .

A potential PLAN carrier will operate in the South China Sea, which allows it to stay sufficiently far away from any shore-based weaponry; even if it does not, its accompanying vessels will provide it protection against any opposition (as with any other carrier battle group).

WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS OFFENSE . What I talked about is defense . Totally different from each other . And yes Submarine fleet should be the way to go for China and in SCS waters where water is very congested with many navies .

Read the post again; a missile such as those operated by India or Vietnam will have to bypass layers of specialized anti-missile defenses in order to do their job, and until there is further light shed on the specifications of such systems, it would be near impossible to judge the outcome.

Submarines can operate in small and large bodies of water and so can carriers.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

If the wing of brahmos is clipped off and balance of missile is upset. It will veer off from it's course and even with momentum is useless, most likely the momentum will fly pass the bridge or miss by 30-50m.

That is why China has newest CWIS to fire as much 30mm rounds as possible to build a wall of defense to knock out super sonic ASM. We have test this concept in out CX-1 Mach 3 ASM which proves our new CWIS install onboard CV-16 and Type052D can handle it.

First of all you don't read the link I sent you . All available defense system of US taken into account against brahmos . And its widely agreed that US must go for Laser defense system and chain if radar to detect brahmos at longest distance possible .As even though you spot it the reaction time is very less .That too in a scenario when all 16 brahmos are fired at one target the destruction is conformed . Did you get my point ? Once the brahmos steep dive it will vanish from your radar and the speed increased to its maximum . Giving very less time for reaction . Mean while other means of weapons will be used to make its 100% kill rate for IN .

On velocity and deviation : You are wrong . And how are you sure the damaged debris will by pass the vessel ? Why it should not home on Ships hull or superstructure ? Destroying radar or weapons systems on weather deck ?

As the article states and as I said since the missile travels in high velocity the multiple debris still posses the momentum which can inflict damage on the target .

 

[rcrmj]

Either you are a kid or u must be crazy

I remember many years ago, a man discovered that the earth was round, and jeered and humiliated by those ignorants who thought it was flat``

kid, since you are ignorant, new comer of this forum and plus an Indian, you'd better trace much earlier posts of my, when I posted things about J-20, J-31, AC and Agies destroyer, you funny lot thought I was crazy and deluded```but I do love the slapping on those people's faces when everything came into light```

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

He is not wrong. Russia has lost most of it shipyard capabilities after Soviet Union collapse. ukraine inherited many of Russia advance capabilities but lack of maintain and lost of scientist hamper everything. China is able to build large LPD on par with USS San Antonia class and is the only country after US to develop the unique Mark 41 VLS similar system which can house and fire a variety of missile system. This is sometime even the Russian has not demonstrated. There is a reason why Russian needs to buyistral LHD to facilitate the development of its own ship building capabilities.

Wonder how you forgot the facts that even today Russia is our Both countries major defense supplier .And far ahead in all weapon technology .

Can you tell me if China has all the capabilities in ship building why China asked Russia to build frigate which is most advanced weapon system in our inventory ? And why China again want Russia's help to build futuristic carrier ?
Mate Russia is like grandfather of our defense industry . Let's be thankful and appreciate them for their generous help shown to us . If its not Russia our our Navy will call frigate class a destroyers like small countries do .

A potential PLAN carrier will operate in the South China Sea, which allows it to stay sufficiently far away from any shore-based weaponry; even if it does not, its accompanying vessels will provide it protection against any opposition (as with any other carrier battle group).

I don't think so . You omitted the threat posed by Shore base fitter jets , surface fleets , underwater threats ? Even thou you have CBG operating carrier near shore is waste of resources . Other vessels and fighter jets fan do the same job .

Read the post again; a missile such as those operated by India or Vietnam will have to bypass layers of specialized anti-missile defenses in order to do their job, and until there is further light shed on the specifications of such systems, it would be near impossible to judge the outcome.

Submarines can operate in small and large bodies of water and so can carriers.

U need to understand there is no system in the world which is 100% perfect . So if you have SAM systems it doesn't mean its impossible for missiles to break through . Same way these the measure and predicted with the abilities of SAM and Missiles . In this case Brahmos is far away in terms of probabilities . That's what am saying .

 

[Akasa]

far ahead in all weapon technology .

What a sweeping generalization.

Can you tell me if China has all the capabilities in ship building why China asked Russia to build frigate which is most advanced weapon system in our inventory ?

There is no evidence to suggest that the PLAN went to Russia for frigate technology.

And why China again want Russia's help to build futuristic carrier ?

There is no evidence to suggest that the PLAN is looking to Russia for carrier help.

I don't think so . You omitted the threat posed by Shore base fitter jets , surface fleets , underwater threats ? Even thou you have CBG operating carrier near shore is waste of resources . Other vessels and fighter jets fan do the same job .

The PLAN carrier groups will operate in the South China Sea, not by the coastline.

U need to understand there is no system in the world which is 100% perfect . So if you have SAM systems it doesn't mean its impossible for missiles to break through . Same way these the measure and predicted with the abilities of SAM and Missiles . In this case Brahmos is far away in terms of probabilities . That's what am saying .

And by the same token, no anti-ship missile system is wholly effective, either.

 

[Beast]

Wonder how you forgot the facts that even today Russia is our Both countries major defense supplier .And far ahead in all weapon technology .

Can you tell me if China has all the capabilities in ship building why China asked Russia to build frigate which is most advanced weapon system in our inventory ? And why China again want Russia's help to build futuristic carrier ?
Mate Russia is like grandfather of our defense industry . Let's be thankful and appreciate them for their generous help shown to us . If its not Russia our our Navy will call frigate class a destroyers like small countries do .


I don't think so . You omitted the threat posed by Shore base fitter jets , surface fleets , underwater threats ? Even thou you have CBG operating carrier near shore is waste of resources . Other vessels and fighter jets fan do the same job .




U need to understand there is no system in the world which is 100% perfect . So if you have SAM systems it doesn't mean its impossible for missiles to break through . Same way these the measure and predicted with the abilities of SAM and Missiles . In this case Brahmos is far away in terms of probabilities . That's what am saying .

Seriously how authentic is that article by Russian. You take it as bible? Russian too have history of bragging and fabricating news. For example, russia sells khanstan CWIS to China and yet most CWIS type 730 is installed onboard our ship and not khanstan system.

If Russian is the one assisting China in type054A frigate. Why did the HQ-16 VLS system is not install onboard Russian ships? Don't tell me slanted launch version is more advanced than VLS Version? And if finance is the problem. They could have exported the more advanced VLS version to India destroyer but no evidence suggested that. india destroyer is still installed with the obsolete slanted launch system done by Russian.

The Russian military author is just having sourgrape that China has once again surpass them in area of ship building.

Or you want to deny China is ahead of Russian in UAV? How many UAV build by Russian can carry out AT role?