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Red Mosque Cleric Abdul Aziz warns of 'bloody revolution'

What dictator? The military leader need atleast 8-10 generals on his back to over-power the parliament. It isn't just COAS, but whole army backing him. Also, can you tell me who corrupt more a military who comes remove parliament, and just try to cover everything through their own resources, or the parliament who when ever come in then put their on jiyals in different institution?

Sorry, the discussion is moving to the different direction.. but my point is, what ever happen. who ever will come up, military dictator, or parliamentary dictator both are representing same corrupt system, they are on the top because of this system. So what ever happen they will never remove or change anything in this system. but the requirements of current scenario are different, what will happen even if PA take over aziz, baitullah masoud, other enemy puppets??? The agenda will be their, and to remove it pakistani constitution should get compliant with shariah. otherwise, who knows tomorrow our enemy uses some other mazara of the sindh, with same agenda.. and there is 90-100% purity that he will get enough support as now baitullah masoud has.


They dont need 8 generals only 111 birgade is enough , core cammanders sitting in Quetta,Karachi ,Peshawar,Multan,Panu Aqil,Jehlum,Gujranwal can do nothing even they disagree with COAS decision .

We should move army head quater and 111 Birgade from Rawal Pindi in order to save Pakistan any future coup.


To completely eliminate mutiny culture in sindh,NWFP and Balouchistan , we need to give them provincial autonomy, TTP ,BLA have support of local politicians.




Are they anywhere close to their culture (if they don't use their langauge, their wedding patterns, their parties, their other culture things)? I didn't said carry i said having and i know many pathans even living in uk have armors (thanks to black carabians) at their home. not to protect or anything just to tell their kids that this is our culture. Their kid normally speak Pashto, unlike pakistanis who even forget their mother tongue, they continue with the culture even in abroad, don't know about US.

In frontier you can find fully automatic arms better then armed forces .We need to disarm them once for all.

It is not part of their culture ,it only terrorism nothing else "topak zama kanum de"
 
Aryn Baker April 2009

Nearly two years after the arrest of Abdul Aziz on multiple charges of inciting violence against the state of Pakistan, the firebrand cleric of Islamabad's radical Red Mosque has returned to the pulpit with a promise that he will continue with his struggle to establish Shari'a, or Islamic law, throughout the country.

Just a day after he was released on bail, Aziz, wearing his trademark spectacles and graying beard, returned to the Red Mosque, the site of a weeklong siege in 2007 between the mosque's seminary students and the Pakistani military, to deliver a sermon ahead of Friday prayers. Thousands of worshipers flocked to the centrally located mosque, spilling into the surrounding streets and kneeling on makeshift prayer rugs while Aziz's voice boomed out over loudspeakers. He told the story of Moses' struggle against the Pharaoh of Egypt to allow his people to practice their religion. Moses, considered by Muslims to be a prophet, is a common theme in Islamic sermons, but at the Red Mosque it took on a special significance. In early 2007 students at the Red Mosque's two affiliated seminaries launched a campaign for Shari'a, occupying a nearby children's library and embarking on vigilante raids through the capital to stop what they called "un-Islamic activities," such as DVD vendors, barber shops and a Chinese-run massage parlor that they accused of being a brothel. The siege culminated in a terrifying shootout that the government says killed 102, including Aziz's brother and son. Aziz was arrested as he tried to escape dressed in a burqa, the full body veil favored by female students of the conservative seminary.

The siege of the Red Mosque was a turning point in Pakistan's inexorable slide toward religious extremism and violence. Lal Masjid, as it is locally known, became a rallying cry for the Pakistani Taliban who have declared war on the central government. It is their Alamo, and as such Aziz's return to the pulpit after two years in jail marks an ominous victory for the forces that are determined to bring the secular government of this nuclear-armed nation to its knees. "This is the second coming of the Red Mosque," says columnist and politician Ayaz Amir. "It will have an impact, like someone rising from the grave. The mosque has become a site of pilgrimage and followers are revivifying their faith in its waters."

Aziz's release (the Supreme Court ruled that it had insufficient evidence against him) comes on the heels of another Taliban victory: On April 13 Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari signed an ordinance imposing Shari'a in the Swat Valley and its surrounding district, effectively ceding administrative and judicial control to the Taliban insurgents who have turned the one-time vacation destination into a war zone. The Nizam-e-Adl regulations, as they are known, were part of a controversial peace deal negotiated in February between the provincial government and an influential religious leader affiliated with the Taliban movement. In addition, the agreement called for the withdrawal of the Pakistani military from the valley and the release of all Taliban prisoners. In return, the insurgents promised to put an end to their vicious campaign that included public beheadings of government officials and suicide attacks on Pakistani security forces. It is still unclear, however, if the Taliban insurgents will allow girls' schools to reopen, women to leave their homes unescorted by male family members, or barber shops and DVD stores to reopen.

Governor Owais Ahmed Ghani defended the move to establish Shari'a, saying it was the only way to bring peace in the valley. "Islam is our religion and we are Muslims," he told reporters in Peshawar, the provincial capital. "The state is responding to the aspirations of the people." Yet more than 80,000 of the 1.5 million residents have fled the region. "The Taliban are taking Swat back to the Dark Ages and the Pakistani government is now complicit in their horrific abuses," said Ali Dayan Hasan, senior South Asia researcher at Human Rights Watch. "Tossing out the rights of the people in the tribal areas reflects abysmally on both the government and the Pakistani military's ability to protect Pakistan's citizens."

In his sermon, Aziz took credit for the Taliban's successes in Swat, comparing himself to another prophet. "I sacrificed my son, my mother and my brother for Islam, following in the path of Abraham. What we have seen in Swat and the tribal areas is the result of the sacrifices at the Red Mosque," he told his rapt audience. "You too should be ready to make sacrifices. The day is not far away when 'Islam' will be enforced in the whole of the country." The crowd erupted with a chant for Jihad.

Aziz vowed to pursue a non-violent campaign to bring 'Shari'a' to the rest of the country, yet in a press conference held Thursday he defended his actions, and those of his students, in the run-up to the siege, saying that they acted peaceably, and only turned to violence when the military moved in. When asked if he would allow his students to take up arms once again, he responded, "If we are pushed to the wall we would have no option but to defend ourselves."

To columnist Amir, Aziz's release is yet another addition to the devastating problems that plague Pakistan. Aziz, he says, has become an iconic figure far more threatening than the shadowy leaders of the Taliban movement. "When you talk of Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah or Mangal Bagh, these are guys whose aims are known, but they are just mysterious figures living far away in the mountains. Aziz is here, right in the capital. He will be an inspirational figure for all the jihadi elements."
 
yea for enlightenments sake
we should adopt western values and habits...

incest, Rape , dating will prove that we are not religous people

Your thinking and mentality is absolutely rubbish to say the least, not only are you an ignorant fool but your idea of western democracies and its people is shameful, degrading and downright ridiculous. Its sad at the very same time that you think everyone in the west people go around raping people and every son sleeps with his mother and you talk as if going on a date with a girl is a bad thing.. clearly baffling to say the least of a guy who has absolutely no worldly knowledge what so ever because i am assuming you've probably never been to a decent western country... now with that being said let me clarify and 'enlighten' you.

Rape cases as you say are duly reported in the West to the police and women aren't ashamed of going to the authorities for help unlike Pakistan where rape happens every single day due to slavery, feudalism and many other reasons but the woman is ashamed to go to the authorities and report her case for many reasons being 1) marriage, 2) family, 3) being a social outcast.. That to me is far more shameful and degrading thus the low rape cases in Muslim countries.

Incest.. now where do i begin by this absolutely bullshit argument that you brought up. Its disgusting to say the least that you think that people in Europe, US and Canada all go around sleeping with their family members yet its hilarious that marrying cousins in Muslim countries is ok. your mentality is garbage to say the least and i hope you get educated in a decent environment. People who want to get involved in these kind of relationships rarely(i am saying rarely here, not saying it never happened) ever go in public, plus its dangerous to say the least. Even if these kind of bogus relationships do occur they probably occur hidden everywhere be it Muslim countries or other countries. You talk about Moral issues when i personally found a lot more respect for a Human being in Canada protected under proper law and order, universal healthcare for everyone, free education till K12 at the same time severely reduced university prices and a brilliant liberal education system.

Your third point about dating is laughable as if its a crime against humanity. I find it funny how hardcore Muslims like you would find violence appropriate but dating a girl 'oh my God', its unislamic our whole society is going to have a moral collapse. Imagse behind a Rickshaw in Peshawar with a man with a bloody face and a knife are appropriate but a females face is marked with black ink..Just the idea makes me laugh.. seriously i suggest you put on a nice record, have a nice coco and dance with your wife every once in a while...and please don't pull stuff from a place where the sun don't shine about Western Democracies.
 
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Your thinking and mentality is absolutely rubbish to say the least, not only are you an ignorant fool but your idea of western democracies and its people is shameful, degrading and downright ridiculous. Its sad at the very same time that you think everyone in the west people go around raping people and every son sleeps with his mother and you talk as if going on a date with a girl is a bad thing.. clearly baffling to say the least of a guy who has absolutely no worldly knowledge what so ever because i am assuming you've probably never been to a decent western country... now with that being said let me clarify and 'enlighten' you.

Rape cases as you say are duly reported in the West to the police and women aren't ashamed of going to the authorities for help unlike Pakistan where rape happens every single day due to slavery, feudalism and many other reasons but the woman is ashamed to go to the authorities and report her case for many reasons being 1) marriage, 2) family, 3) being a social outcast.. That to me is far more shameful and degrading thus the low rape cases in Muslim countries.

Incest.. now where do i begin by this absolutely bullshit argument that you brought up. Its disgusting to say the least that you think that people in Europe, US and Canada all go around sleeping with their family members yet its hilarious that marrying cousins in Muslim countries is ok. your mentality is garbage to say the least and i hope you get educated in a decent environment. People who want to get involved in these kind of relationships rarely(i am saying rarely here, not saying it never happened) ever go in public, plus its dangerous to say the least. Even if these kind of bogus relationships do occur they probably occur hidden everywhere be it Muslim countries or other countries. You talk about Moral issues when i personally found a lot more respect for a Human being in Canada protected under proper law and order, universal healthcare for everyone, free education till K12 at the same time severely reduced university prices and a brilliant liberal education system.

Your third point about dating is laughable as if its a crime against humanity. I find it funny how hardcore Muslims like you would find violence appropriate but dating a girl 'oh my God', its unislamic our whole society is going to have a moral collapse. Imagse behind a Rickshaw in Peshawar with a man with a bloody face and a knife are appropriate but a females face is marked with black ink..Just the idea makes me laugh.. seriously i suggest you put on a nice record, have a nice coco and dance with your wife every once in a while...and please don't pull stuff from a place where the sun don't shine about Western Democracies.


I think the point Bill Longley was trying to make was that when it comes to islam only the negatives are pointed out......they whip you.....make you grow beards.....blow girls school up ect ect.
When only the negatives of western countries are pointed out we get every excuse under the book to justify there actions and excuses.
 
I think the point Bill Longley was trying to make was that when it comes to islam only the negatives are pointed out......they whip you.....make you grow beards.....blow girls school up ect ect.
When only the negatives of western countries are pointed out we get every excuse under the book to justify there actions and excuses.

I was annoyed first when the gentleman used some offensive words against me. I didnot reply because that would have made me equal to him.

only taliban are not fanatics we have some other fanatics who dont understand that their fanaticism is very damageing.

but brother again thanks for presenting my view point

Thanks God I am not insecure in my identity
but thanks again
 
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I was annoyed first when the gentleman gave some offensive words. I didnot reply because that would have made me equal to him

thanks for presenting my view point

Thanks God I am not insecure in my identity
but thanks again

I find it funny that when the western loving elite wants to give an example of islam it picks afghanistan and saudi and will pick the most negative aspects and then somehow assume in there fertile imagination that we support there actions by default.......do the same to them and they want to pick out every postive aspect of western culture......i think the rap below sums it up perfect.

Immortal Technique-Poverty Of Philosophy

"No matter how much you want to dye your hair blonde and put fake eyes in, or follow an anorexic standard of beauty, or no matter how many diamonds you buy from people who exploit your own brutally to get them, no matter what kind of car you drive or what kind of fancy clothes you put on, you will never be them. They're always gonna look at you as nothing but a little monkey. I'd rather be proud of what I am, rather than desperately trying to be something I'm really not, just to fit in. And whether we want to accept it or not, that's what this culture or lack of culture is feeding us."
 
I find it funny that when the western loving elite wants to give an example of islam it picks afghanistan and saudi and will pick the most negative aspects and then somehow assume in there fertile imagination that we support there actions by default.......do the same to them and they want to pick out every postive aspect of western culture......i think the rap below sums it up perfect.

Immortal Technique-Poverty Of Philosophy

"No matter how much you want to dye your hair blonde and put fake eyes in, or follow an anorexic standard of beauty, or no matter how many diamonds you buy from people who exploit your own brutally to get them, no matter what kind of car you drive or what kind of fancy clothes you put on, you will never be them. They're always gonna look at you as nothing but a little monkey. I'd rather be proud of what I am, rather than desperately trying to be something I'm really not, just to fit in. And whether we want to accept it or not, that's what this culture or lack of culture is feeding us."


100% agreed. those who are not proud of them selves get no respect. We call our selves nationalists and prove to have worst kind of inferiority complex
in order to prove our moderenity we cross all limits.
God bless us and give us courage to be brave enough to be proud of our identity
 
100% agreed. those who are not proud of them selves get no respect. We call our selves nationalists and prove to have worst kind of inferiority complex
in order to prove our moderenity we cross all limits.
God bless us and give us courage to be brave enough to be proud of our identity

Yaar, I have used this qoute again & again here
'SHAH SEY ZIYADA SHAH KAA WAFADAR'
These types are more loyal to west then the westerners themselves
 
I think the point Bill Longley was trying to make was that when it comes to islam only the negatives are pointed out......they whip you.....make you grow beards.....blow girls school up ect ect.
When only the negatives of western countries are pointed out we get every excuse under the book to justify there actions and excuses.

I was annoyed first when the gentleman used some offensive words against me. I didnot reply because that would have made me equal to him.

only taliban are not fanatics we have some other fanatics who dont understand that their fanaticism is very damageing.

but brother again thanks for presenting my view point

Thanks God I am not insecure in my identity
but thanks again

Rubbish to say the least. The silly point Bill made about incest, rape and dating saying it as if these things don't occur in Muslim countries. You don't think rape is invovled in Muslim countries? You don't think incest relationship might occur hidden under somewhere in Muslim countries? You don't think people go on dates heck i go on dates in Peshawar.. So whats your point?

Stop hiding behind religion and running to your friends to justify your answer and come out with an appropriate response. Calling me a fanatic isn't going to turn the table around. Bill said something derogatory and i called him out .. its that easy, you won't get away with silly posts like that..

was annoyed first when the gentleman gave some offensive words. I didnot reply because that would have made me equal to him

You have no reason to reply to me and i have no intentions of becoming your equal as i've seen your way of thinking. Hiding behind national identity to prove a point that is completely wrong and amateur and saying perverse things as if they don't occur in our country isn't going to help and you better dare not question my patriotism let me tell you that. I love Pakistan more so than religion so lets just keep it at that, i like putting Pakistan's national interest before anything else.

Yaar, I have used this qoute again & again here
'SHAH SEY ZIYADA SHAH KAA WAFADAR'
These types are more loyal to west then the westerners themselves

Run along kid.. go beat your women some place else!! i don't even read your replies as you have no intellectual capacity to have a decent conversation.
 
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Immortal Technique-Poverty Of Philosophy

"No matter how much you want to dye your hair blonde and put fake eyes in, or follow an anorexic standard of beauty, or no matter how many diamonds you buy from people who exploit your own brutally to get them, no matter what kind of car you drive or what kind of fancy clothes you put on, you will never be them. They're always gonna look at you as nothing but a little monkey. I'd rather be proud of what I am, rather than desperately trying to be something I'm really not, just to fit in. And whether we want to accept it or not, that's what this culture or lack of culture is feeding us."

If i got 1 rupee for every snobby statement i replied to i'd be crorepati right now. This is by far the most hilarious thing i've read so far quiet frankly speaking, so yea i would like to thank you for sharing this!! lol

With that being said stop trying to pull a Michael Jackson on us will you? There is a mere difference in ideology between what the social liberals think and the social conservative and a difference in ideology doesn't make you blond or blue eyed you really have to be intellectually disabled to even think that way. Universal values like freedom of speech, conscience, emphasizess on individual rights and equality of opportunity doesn't make 'western'. Support for political liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property, and a transparent system of government doesn't make you a slave either.

Fighting to protect your homeland and not supporting militant and hardline fundees doesn't make you western either, infact your far more patriotic if your fighting for all those that i listed above for your country so no your point is i won't say garbage as it made me chuckle but rather amusing and childish
 
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The best way to control the likes of Maulana Abdul Aziz is to bring every mosque / madrassah in the country under Army control. The clerics should be required to read pre-printed sermons vetted by ISI. A special detachment of the Ministry of Interior should be setup with technical assistance from FBI to monitor each individual affected or brainwashed by the religious propaganda. All references to Jihad or other violent forms of resistance should be deleted from religious texts.
 
The best way to control the likes of Maulana Abdul Aziz is to bring every mosque / madrassah in the country under Army control. The clerics should be required to read pre-printed sermons vetted by ISI. A special detachment of the Ministry of Interior should be setup with technical assistance from FBI to monitor each individual affected or brainwashed by the religious propaganda. All references to Jihad or other violent forms of resistance should be deleted from religious texts.

Ohhh. another 'SHAH SEY ZIYADA SHAH KAA WAFADAR":bunny:
 
The best way to control the likes of Maulana Abdul Aziz is to bring every mosque / madrassah in the country under Army control. The clerics should be required to read pre-printed sermons vetted by ISI. A special detachment of the Ministry of Interior should be setup with technical assistance from FBI to monitor each individual affected or brainwashed by the religious propaganda. All references to Jihad or other violent forms of resistance should be deleted from religious texts.

are you suggesting to edit QURAN????????????????????????
:what::what::what:
 

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