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Real ugly face of Indian democracy...The indepth analysis of caste system

Albatross

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In an agricultural village in the heartland of India, some farm animals belonging to a family of un-scheduled caste Hindus (previously called untouchables) wandered onto the property of a Brahmin. Outraged that these untouchables would desecrate his land by walking upon it to retrieve their animals, the Brahmin had the untouchables physically restrained while someone forced them to eat human excrement......

The place of worship had been filled with tension for months. Members of the lower Vaishya (merchant) castes were forced to remain in the back while members of the Brahmin (priestly) castes took the front locations for the worship time. Eventually the Vaishya left to build their own place of worship, where they could stand in the front. The new facility is a mosque. The Vaishyas who built it had never practiced Hinduism; nor had their fathers or their grandfathers. Yet, everyone knew which caste each family had been converted out of, and many of the social distinctions remain?..

A single woman newly arrived in London from India was seeking a place to live. One of her British co-workers secured a room for her with another Indian family. When she arrived to take up occupancy of the room, the family reconsidered, and decided to withdraw their offer based on the fact that the single woman was from a relatively low cast background. The family had been in London for twenty years, and were Christians?..

A man had been invited by the Indian government to dedicate a statue at Benares Hindu University. He eventually gave up and left because high caste students flung sandals and insults at him. The man (at that time Defense Minister), Jagivan Ram had just finished overseeing the 1971 military defeat of Pakistan. He was an untouchable. After he left, the students purified the area with water from the Ganges River?..

Caste is perhaps the most important and difficult issue to grapple with in missions to India today. What is it? Is it religious, or simply social? Must it be renounced by an Indian converting to Christianity, or is it possible to simply reinterpret it? Can a Hindu become a Christian and remain part of his caste?

India is a collage of different social groups. The Indian community is divided (stratified) into caste groupings that are often associated with occupation. Some groups are on the top, are privileged, and are viewed with great respect. Others are in the middle, are socially accepted and treated quite well. Still others are near the bottom, are barely tolerated and are often mistreated. Then there are those underneath - the untouchables. Their presence is often not tolerated and they are the most despised.

However, caste is only one of the dividing factors in Indian society. Race is also a factor. Dravidians tend to isolate themselves from Bengalis, Bengalis from Aryans, and Aryans from Dravidians. Language barriers also exist. India has 14 "national" languages and thousands of other languages and dialects exist across the sub-continent.

The effect of all this is to create hundreds of thousands of social communities: Tamil speaking Dravidian Brahmins, Untouchable Bengalis, Hindi speaking Aryan farmers, and Telegu speaking Dravidian Jewelers. In many ways these groups act as fraternal organizations (brotherhoods), where it is expected that one member will help another when he can.

Besides caste, language, and race, India is also divided by religion. Sadly, the caste system is more Indian than it is Hindu. The idea of caste impacts Muslims, Sikhs, and Christians in India. Outside of India (on Bali for example) caste has little if any impact even among the Hindu.

Among non Hindus, the effect of caste is often weakened. Sikhs may avoid eating with other Sikhs from a lower caste, but they are not ostracized if they do. It is the same among Muslims and Christians. None of these have untouchables. However, marriage regulations are still tight. None of Sikhism's ten founding gurus married outside of their sub caste, even though Sikhs deny the very existence of the caste structure within Sikh society. The Indian Supreme Court in past rulings has taken note of the reality of the cast structure among Muslims.

Caste has its roots and justification in Hindu religion: the castes themselves sprang out of different parts of Brahman, people are born into a particular caste as a reward (or punishment) for their actions (karma) in their last life.

Caste discrimination violates all human rights norms on which UN instruments are founded. In its application, Caste has led to sub-human treatment of a vast population. Presently, India's Dalits constitute around 17% of the population. With other minorities, such as tribal peoples, Sikhs and Muslims, minorities in India constitute roughly 85%; the overwhelming majority. To this day, the level of violence against Dalits and other 'lower' Castes is atrocious. Social degradation perpetuated under the Caste system has very few parallels in human history. Such treatment continues to this day. Discrimination is extended to all aspects of life: whether in employment, education, health, land holding, security, and all aspects of women's rights. The psychological effects on 'inferior' Castes constitute gross human rights abuse and a continuing cruelty.�

On 26th of January 1950, the Constitution of India came into force. This Constitution accepted the principles of equality, fraternity and liberty. Jurisprudentially, the Constitution outlawed all enclosed units and philosophies that support such enclosures by implication. M.V. Pylee, a foremost authority on the Indian Constitution, remarked, '[The constitution] represents the political, economic and social ideals and aspirations of vast majority of the Indian people.'[18] However, between this legal position and the reality of India there is a vast gap. The world's largest democracy has thus failed to develop beyond a mere formal democracy.�

A Caste can exist only within a system of Castes. An enclosed unit called a Caste has no meaning if it does not exist in the midst of other enclosed units. The Caste system is one in which doors and windows to other Castes are closed. To open or to break the doors cannot be a decision of just one Caste. It has to be a decision by consensus. The breaking of Caste boundaries involves an exit as well an entrance. Whilst one Caste may make a decision to exit from its boundaries, entering into boundaries held by others requires their consent. When the most socially and politically powerful Castes want to remain enclosed, lower Castes' decisions to break open can have little effect. When higher Castes rules of internal discipline require strict observance of enclosure, revolts by lower Castes can make very little progress.

Emancipation lies in destroying Caste enclosure. In other words, making it open. Yet in India, after a few thousand years of enclosure practice, breaking open has proved near impossible, despite many gigantic efforts. It is perhaps not difficult to understand the inability of some leaders - those who are reliant on the support of the upper Castes - to take a strong position against Caste. One may recall that even during the early part of this century, the prominent white politicians in the United States could not take up the issue of discrimination against blacks strongly. The emergence of Martin Luther King and his ilk in the United States and Nelson Mandela of South Africa were a necessary part of the process dealing with discrimination in those countries. Ultimately, as understood by Dalits themselves, the annihilation of Caste is likewise a precondition for democracy in India. The solution to Caste discrimination does not lie in toleration among the Castes. It demands nothing less than the elimination of Caste itself, from within Caste itself.�

Discrimination causes suffering, often very deep forms of inner suffering. People who are thus made to suffer withdraw. As result, they also refuse to co-operate. In such circumstances, if tolerance is to have any meaning, it must be sufficiently genuine and strong enough to restore co-operation. Thus discrimination and toleration both reflect the quality of compassion, mercy and justice. If there is a perception that these qualities are missing, the legitimacy of the social organisation and the political system as whole will be under challenge. If such legitimacy is finally lost, deep enmities arise, leading to violence. Violence can reach a point that people become indifferent to cruelty; cruelty they cause and cruelty they suffer. Such indifference kills folk relationships and communication. Ultimately, the test of active tolerance is its ability to genuinely revive the Folk Life in the face of suffering caused by discrimination.
 
What has all this to do with democracy ?

If India were a dictatorship it would be the same.
 
Link please.................

This thread is not aimed at hurting or anything and most of the things are mentioned with dates and can be verified simply by googling..Its purpose is to examine the real challenegs faced by indian people to become one civilized nation where all people have equal rights..one link is here Caste-related violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What has all this to do with democracy ?

If India were a dictatorship it would be the same.

As india claims to be world biggest democracy offering people equal rights ,this article reflects the truth and its about hindus of lower caste .One can imagine the treatment of muslims and other minorities very well
 
Jinke khud ke ghar Sheeshe ke ho....wo Dusro ke ghar par Pathar nahi fekte.....
Satan Drinks Shezan


Satan drinks Shezan in Pakistan or at least that is one is supposed to believe in an increasingly intolerant Pakistan. The*shameful decision by the Lahore Bar Association to ban the drinking of Shehzan in subordinate courts for its supposed Ahmadi links is more proof if any was needed of the ugly face of Pakistan.
The Lahore Bar Association and the wider lawyer fraternity should be ashamed of their actions in accepting pressure from the*so-called Khatme Nabuwat Lawyers Forum to ban drinks made by Shezan*on the basis that it is an Ahmadi concern. Such an action stinks of the stench of intolerance and takes*discrimination against minorities and especially the Ahmadi community to shameful new heights, proving Zia’s Pakistan is alive and flourishing*in what is today a polluted Pakistan.

As Pakistanis our individual and collective silence*allows such scoundrels to deface our nation and our faith which is the real tragedy. I for one will forever drink Shezan*for I will not be cow in to the*madness that is modern day Muslim Pakistan. Thus I suppose the noble Muslim lawyers and other nutters who support the banning of Shehzan*fear that by*sipping Shehzan’s iconic*mango drink*it will contaminate the minds and or alter their beliefs, such is their strength of faith.

To finish, an editorial in The Express Tribune here* *expresses best my feelings and fears regarding the Shehzan ban*when it rightly wrote the following:

The evil of ignorance has obviously sunk deep within our society, leaving scars everywhere. The knives which inflict these wounds are carried by groups dedicated to spreading intolerance and campaigning against the minorities. The Ahmadis, of course, draw the special wrath of the forces committed to acting against them. When professionals such as lawyers, who should know more about justice than most, join hands with them, we can only wonder about the future of our country and ask what grim abyss we are headed for.
Pakistan must wake up and smell the coffee and chai and whatever else before it’s too late, for the monster of intolerance is devouring our nation thanks only to our silence, however*it must be slayed before it devours us all.

Btw all of us know how do you treat minorities in your country. no matter wether its Ahmadi,Hindu or shia.....forget about that you didn't even treated Bengali muslim equaly that's why India helped Bangladesh in getting freedom...
 
yes there is a caste system and that too very bad one...people got killed just because they are at the end of food chain of caste system....
these issued drives Indian Democracy...bitter but truth
 
yes there is a caste system and that too very bad one...people got killed just because they are at the end of food chain of caste system....
these issued drives Indian Democracy...bitter but truth

I like it atleast there are some honest and truth loving people in India who doesnt distort facts just for the sake of their self esteem or nationalism...
 
It's non-sense to think that. why ? read bellow

1. Fact is that caste system in India is not yesterday phenomenon but it's 2500 years old system.
2. Due to democracy, Fundamental rights and participation in Politics ensured to all People of India irrespective of Caste,creed and sex.
3. Due to democracy, Backward castes and Dalit castes come to power. Today Nitish kumar,Akhilesh,Mayawati, Chautala,Shivraj chauhan,Ashok gehlot ..all these chief ministers are from backward castes.

Democracy is the best thing happened in this Indian subcontinent. I'm too from a backward caste and we know the importance of democracy more than any upper castes . Long Live Indian Democracy !
 
It is 15 years old published article...your intentions are very clear..trolling ...trolling and trolling......every society has its ugly face...your society also has....ugly face like your ill treatment to Mujahirs, Begalies, Shia, Minorities - Hindu and Christian....and don't forget Baluchi also.....

We have problem but we are accepting it and working towards it...you better concentrate your own problems which are too many...
 
Really ugly face of PDF. Man behind the face is Albatross. Time to come out of your 15 year coma and do something for Pakistan
 
is mod's are in sleeping:......why they are allowing these kinda threads......pdf becoming more ..... Day by day
 
Well if we were talking about some sections of the Hindu society in the 1950s then this would be relevant but in 2012 it is a minority.


Additionally remeber India is constitutionally a SECULAR democracy so one section of people do NOT reflect ALL OF INDIAN SOCIETY!! :hitwall::hitwall:


Ignorant fool.
 
It is 15 years old published article...your intentions are very clear..trolling ...trolling and trolling......every society has its ugly face...your society also has....ugly face like your ill treatment to Mujahirs, Begalies, Shia, Minorities - Hindu and Christian....and don't forget Baluchi also.....

We have problem but we are accepting it and working towards it...you better concentrate your own problems which are too many...

Have things changed much in the caste system in the last 15 years. Perhaps we should talk about progress that has been made in making their lives better?
 

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