Poland develops new PT-16 main battle tank

[Penguin]

Does that mean no 120mm?

Note the separate commander sight (absent in pics and discussion post 1)

T-72B/T-90, T-80U, T-80UD.

T-90A, T-84.

Is there a good insight into the underlying PT-91 turret?

The modernization is a bit like this 'for fun' project someone conducted for the PT-91M (for Malaysia) here:
http://malaysiamilitarypower.blogspot.nl/2012/09/siri-mari-upgrade-senjata-malaysia-pt.html

I also found this pic of PT-91M, which I find a bit puzzling as far as the turret rear is concerned (is this actually a PT-91M?)

http://hasrulggk.deviantart.com/art/PT-91M-Pendekar-at-DSA-2010-169296693
http://malaysiamilitarypower.blogspot.nl/2010/06/malaysian-armour-pt-91m-pendekar-at-dsa.html

As opposed to e.g. this PT-91M

http://www.mobypicture.com/user/DzirhanDefence/view/15996976

Or this one.

http://malaysiamilitarypower.blogspot.nl/2016/05/latihan-kuasa-tembakan-lkt-2016-part-2.html

 

[Penguin]

Is this still the base turret of PT-91?

PT91A assembly at factory Bumar-Łabędy

http://smartagepl.tumblr.com/post/114480731859/współcześnie-jednym-z-najważniejszych-środków
http://www.smartage.pl/pt-91-twardy-polski-mbt/

 

[Penguin]

PT-91E for comparison

http://en.valka.cz/topic/view/48352/PT-91E-PT-91Ex

 

[bobo6661]

PT-91E for comparison

What i heard from youtube presentation he said its a pt 91 turrent with new armor and the lower part is a pt 91 with new armor with add on 60 mm composit armor. But he said to its just a proposition so like the PL 01.

Is this still the base turret of PT-91?

"Wykorzystujemy orginalną wieżę od pt 91 z specjanie skonstruowanym pancerzem kompozytowym modułowym"

We using original tower from PT 91 with specially constructed modular composite armor

 

[T-55]

MSPO 2016 exhibition in Kielce - Polish Defence Industry

 

[Penguin]

Ah, ball and chain to close the gap between turret and hulltop. Nice shot of the rear.
Autoloader (but it doesn't seem to be a bustle mounted one ...).

Standard Rheinmetal 120mm by 570 L44 ammo.

@T-55: Please also pots in Leo2PL upgrade thread.

Nice AAA system at the end.

Falcon Turret autoloader (pretty compact busttle system)

US TTD 120mm autoloader

M1 fitted with FastDraw autoloader

 

[Penguin]

I can't see many alternatives for a bustle loader... ?!?!?!?

 

[Penguin]

Poland’s Military Property Agency (AMW) has agreed to the sale of its outdated T-72 main battle tanks to the Armed Forces of Jordan. Sources in Jordan confirmed that Poland has completed its deal with Armed Forces of Jordan to sell its T-72 tanks.
Jordan also confirmed that it would take part in MSPO International Defence Industry Exhibition in Poland. The Polish defense industry plans to unveil updated version of T-72 for Jordan At MSPO.
http://defense-arab.com/vb/threads/107834/

One of the Middle East countries is interested in purchasing new Polish PT-16 main battle tank
http://defence-blog.com/army/unname...ry-is-interested-in-purchasing-new-pt-16.html

Hello, Falcon turret autoloader and 120mm gun? Watch if anything happens new at KADDB.

[edit]

The PT-16 upgrade package includes changing the main armament of the T-72/PT-91 from its 125 mm weapon to a 120 mm NATO-standard gun with a new gun/turret drive stabiliser system. (OBRUM)

• The main armament for the PT-16 would be either a 120 mm/50 calibre smoothbore Slovakian TG MSB 120 gun or a Ukrainian KBM2 gun chambered for 120x570 mm NATO one-piece standard ammunition.
  
• The PT-16 is also armed with a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun and a ZSMU A4 remote-control weapon station manufactured by Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow (ZMT).
  
• The turret of the PT-16 is equipped with a back-mounted auto-loader, also designed by ZMT, which enables a rate of fire of 12 shots per minute and holds 22 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition.

http://www.janes.com/article/63498/mspo-2016-pt-16-tank-upgrade-unveiled

Does look like a bustle loader after all!

 

[Penguin]

The PT-16 is a medium class tank with a weight of about 47.5 tons with a crew of three.
The modernization program offers the choice of three transmission system variants: 1000 hp, 1088 hp 1200 hp.

The PT-16 is fitted with a 120 mm smoothbore gun manufactured by HSW (50 calibers - 6000mm length) able to accomodate all NATO standards ammunition 120x570. The autoloading system is moved from the hull to inside the turret (at the back) with a capacity of 22 rounds. PT-16 is also fitted with a ZSMU A4 remote weapon station (for WKM 12.7mm or GA 40mm).

The new generation fire control system provides wide range information gathering and processing systems. It has the ability to launch the 120mm ammunition and is functionally connected to the autoloading system with general ordnance trigger function (gunner and commander in "hunter killer" mode or commander in "hunter killer" mode).

The PT-16 modernization program may also be fitted with:
- Static and dynamic camouflage
- Decreased thermal signature
- Networked communications
- Additional power source for deck grid

According to the representative, it would take PGZ up to six months to assemble a functioning prototype.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/mspo...ion_for_t-72_and_pt-91_main_battle_tanks.html

 

[ptldM3]

I thought the same thing at the first sight.

If they weren't inspired by Altay, someone "feto" sold the blueprint of Altay.

I have heard about that feto terror organisation sold some blueprints of ongoing defense projects of Turkiye to other countries. This may be one of 'em.

You arnt very well versed in tank design. The Altay has a 90 degree frontal turret coupled with a low profile. This is basically found on half of the worlds tanks.


T-90S being tested without ERA:

T-90 turret:

Ukrainian T-84:

Besides that the glacis design and suspension, 6 wheels vs 7 is totally different. If you see some similarities between the Atlay and other tanks it's just a coincidence and the important thing to note is that the Altay is modern, it brings nothing revolutionary or unique to the table that has not been seen in older tanks. In fact the Altay was designed from the South Korean K-2 and the gun, engine and transmission are German.

 

[Zarvan]

PT-16
Main battle tank

The Polish PT-16 is a significantly upgraded version of the PT-91 and T-72 tanks

Country of origin Poland
Entered service ?
Crew 3 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight ~ 47.5 t
Length (gun forward) 9.67 m
Hull length 6.86 m
Width 3.34 m
Width (with ERAWA) 3.7 m
Height 2.6 m
Armament
Main gun 120 mm smoothbore
Machine guns 1 x 12.7 mm, 1 x 7.62 mm
Elevation range ?
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun ~ 40 rounds
Machine guns ?
Mobility
Engine unspecified diesel
Engine power 1 000 hp
Maximum road speed 62 km/h
Range ~ 500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 58%
Side slope 47%
Vertical step 0.85 m
Trench 2.8 m
Fording 1.2 m
Fording (with preparation) 4 m


In 2016 a new Polish main battle tank was revealed. It is called the PT-16. It is a significantly upgraded version of the PT-91 Twardy, which in turn is an improved and locally produced version of the Soviet T-72. The PT-16 is proposed as a low-cost upgrade that would significantly improve capabilities of the ageing tanks in the fields of protection, firepower and mobility. Currently Polish Army operates 233 PT-91 Twardy and 120 older T-72M1 tanks. Another 470 T-72M1 tanks are in storage. So there are a number of tanks, that could be upgraded to the new standard. Also Polish Army operates a number of ex-German Leopard 2A4 and Leopard 2A5 tanks. These are planed to be upgraded to Leopard 2PL standard.

The PT-16 has an upgraded hull of the PT-91/T-72, fitted with add-on composite armor kit. This add-on armor was supplied from Germany. Lower side of the hull is protected by rubber skirts. Original cast turret was also fitted with add-on composite armor. Protection level of the upgraded tank improved comparing with that of the PT-91 Twardy.

Developers claim that maximum protection level of the turret's front arc is equivalent to 1 000 mm of Rolled Homogenous Armor (RHA). Similar level of protection is present on the Leopard 2A5 tank. Protection can be further increased by fitting Polish ERAWA explosive reactive armor.

The new Polish tank is armed with a 120 mm smoothbore gun, which is compatible with all standard NATO ammunition. The PT-16 retains a carousel-type autoloader of the T-72, however it was modified to handle 120 mm ammunition instead of 125 mm. This autoloader reduced the crew to 3 men, however it has a significant drawback, as all ammunition load is stored in the crew compartment, rather than separate compartments with blow-out panels. A locally-designed bustle-mounted autoloader is proposed as an option. It holds 22 rounds of ammunition and has a loading rate of 12 rounds per minute.

Developers also propose to fit a completely new welded turrets for the PT-16.

Around 40 rounds of ammunition are carried for the main gun. Various types of rounds can be fired, including the latest APFSDS and HE rounds.

The PT-16 has an entirely new fire control system. Both commander and gunner use new sights. This tank has got a hunter-killer engagement capability. The commander uses a panoramic sight to search for targets. Once the target is selected the gun is laid on the target automatically and the gunner completes al the aiming and firing process. During that time commander looks for the next target. Such hunter-killer engagement method is present on all modern main battle tanks. It allows to acquire and engage targets faster. Also the tank has got a new sensor system.

The PT-16 is fitted with a number of new new sensors, including laser warning receivers. These can automatically identify direction of the laser source and trigger smoke grenade dischargers.

Secondary armament consists of a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun and roof-mounted remotely controlled weapon station with a 12.7 mm machine gun.

The PT-16 is operated by a crew of three, including commander, gunner and driver.

The new Polish tank is proposed to be fitted by an unspecified Serbian turbocharged diesel engine, developing 1 000 hp. It is worth noting that Poland had their own S-1000 turbocharged diesel engine, developing 1 000 hp. However since 2012 tank engines are no longer produced in Poland. Two other engines, possibly MTU diesel, developing 1 088 hp and Serbian V46-TK, developing 1 200 hp, are proposed as options. Tracks of the PT-16 are similar to those of German Leopard 2 series tanks. It seems that the PT-16 can be fitted with a deep wading kit, which allows this tank to ford shallow water obstacles up to 4 m deep.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pt_16.htm

 

[cerberus]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

Since Its Used Same has Hull T-72 Same Like We did with Tank Ex

Combat improved Ajeya is Significantly Parallel to PT-91 Twardy And We taking Polish consultancy in it
Why not This Upgrade is Significant To our Further Development to T-72 Ajeya M2

 

[cabatli_53]

You arnt very well versed in tank design. The Altay has a 90 degree frontal turret coupled with a low profile. This is basically found on half of the worlds tanks.


T-90S being tested without ERA:


View attachment 332577


T-90 turret:

View attachment 332579


Ukrainian T-84:

View attachment 332578



Besides that the glacis design and suspension, 6 wheels vs 7 is totally different. If you see some similarities between the Atlay and other tanks it's just a coincidence and the important thing to note is that the Altay is modern, it brings nothing revolutionary or unique to the table that has not been seen in older tanks. In fact the Altay was designed from the South Korean K-2 and the gun, engine and transmission are German.

What do you expect from a tank to become revolutionary for example ? A Tracked vehicle welded with different type of heavy armour blocks. All have known shapes and more or less similar specifications. Although you increased the protection level thanks to a new generation armor technology, or thicker blocks, A new generation ATGM tandem warhead will penetrate it/or put it non-combatant. The World best tank is also driven on tracks which is the weakest part of them so Revolutionary section of new tanks must be those.

- Active/Passive protection systems
- Fire control computer first round hitting probability
- 360 degree situation awareness system/sensors
- 360 degree Automatic target detection/classification/tracking capability for main gun
- Maybe new generation gun launched guided missiles

 

[Penguin]

• All electric drives for turret and gun.
• Electric motors driving the sprocket (good for accelleration), coupled to a suitable smaller, low signature, high power output combustion engine/generator.
• Active eCamouflage (preferably multispectral) to disguise combat vehicle by projecting imagery of the countryside onto them