@The Eagle An inordinate delay in the reply, due to matters that have required an undivided attention elsewhere. My delayed response to your post as above at #62.
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Things are defined on different parameters and are explained in contexts of the parameters that are defined differently that too as per the ones narrative by everyone. What you are following is your prospective or to the some, an inspiration of things that you have to see through which is the case to all of us.”
Totally agreed. Any study, has to have an aim, a design and a set of parameters to define the methodology to be followed in confirming or rebutting the premise as intended at the start.
What is imperative, is that my perspective, by itself, is merely an observation on the existential paradigm of evolution of fundamentalism in the Pakistani society. It is neither a confirmation nor a denial of any preconceived premise or conjecture that may/may not be pertinent to the overall narrative. Had that been the case, it would have been a typical case of
Pygmalion Effect, something that would indeed render the observations into the realm of mere fantastical imagination.
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Let me say, in short, there is one ISLAM no matter how much people attach the barbarism, extremism and what not to ISLAM because as soon as any practice cross the limits of Islam or are opposing to the teaching of Islam, are not Islam at all but so-calling and advertising it as this Islam or that Islam is just like setting a decoy that others, even knowingly, cannot avoid but to fall for it. Just look at the Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc chapters that currently to Syria, are just the prospective of the ones ideology and plans for supremacy that does not include any reservation as "them nations/people" but as these nations are Islamic hence different names for Islam to achieve the goals. I bet here, if there was any other power on earth, to take over the current power, there would be many of definitions for them nations including US & West that it would have been turned into what today's M.E and Libya etc are. It is all about New World Order that would be opposed in different manners than conventional ways.”
There is, again, no difference of opinion in the bold portion of your statement. I have myself contended that Islam, like Christianity and any other religion for that matter, is undergoing a continuous evolution albeit at times, distortion?
The remainder of your paragraph,is not contested as evolution of nation states, and utilisation of religion as an instrument of policy is a well recorded fact that can not be contested by any rational logic.
But, at the same time, will it not amount to ignorance of the human beings, that they have allowed Islam to be divided and have allowed Sunni-Shia schism to continue and at times promoted it to further their own perceived or real personal/national interests? If that indeed is the case, can one deny the schism as evident in Pakistani society, being the result of the very same national policy wherein troops were deputed increasingly to Arab states subscribing to this divisive philosophy and irrespective of best efforts there have been some fissures which have been developed as a consequence of this exposure actively supported as an instrument of state policy? By this, I of course, indicate to the policy of
‘islamisation’ undertaken to support the
‘Jihad’ in Afghanistan, and as a State policy under Zia government, of the
Pashtun tribes and society in Pakistan as whole, which, with the close cooperation of Pakistan with GCC countries, especially Saudi Arabia pursuing a divisive agenda, has only resulted in the same divisiveness creeping in in to the Pakistani society? Do the Shia specific acts, not exemplify these fissures? Would Iran, a country with it’s own agenda, not seek to exploit them with the intent to check Pakistan in a two pronged strategy to contain the spread of Saudi influence into Pakistan as also to check the Pakistani policies in Afghanistan, which are against it’s own perceived national interests?
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Now coming to call it ethnic, sect or whatever issues that includes social as well, are propagated by every rival against other to portray her as per the norms of the ones wish and plans but there is always another side of coin which is different and opposed to the hosting party's approach and advertisement. Pakistan has many other options, far more than Stone & Rock thing but as ti has no end or any fruits to explain so only happenings in future and real time approach by passing such crucial times will prove how we did it."
I have not contended to the doom of Pakistani state. I, on the other hand, have contended to the deepening of fissures as existential presently. It is something which will be exploited by all concerned,if not being done already.
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There are many other forces in such process whereby we have been allegedly painted as, without any choice or having limited options, is based upon many of the regional powers own interests subject to Pakistan and to the most extent, is a part of Media warfare that frankly speaking, we lack and even our liberals want to even the same, fails miserably because them forget the culture, norms and values of our society. It is easy to understand that whenever, the new system opposing to the values of society and culture, is to be executed it results in disaster and a damage that most are confused yet becomes the pawn for other powers. Same goes to US & West that whenever in the name of their diplomacy, those powers tried to inject their system into the world which is totally different due to Family Systems, Culture, Faith and Society values, it becomes as a civil disaster at first then war and then nothing left but mourning and this exactly happened in the start though by the passage of time, name and shape is changed from civil war to ethnic to sect to terrorism and who knows what's next."
For the highlighted part, would it be a stretch of imagination if I were to interject and simply call that as a mere distortion of facts to portray one's own self as a "victim"? Has the Pakistani State not benefited from convergence with
"vested" interests of 'regional powers'? Is Afghanistan Policy of Pakistan an example of mass hysteria against the Pakistani State?
The challenge to the society is from the
takfiri ideology. I have not contended to any other aspect. The
takfiri ideology is being promoted, propagated and pursued by the
wahabis quite successfully if I may say so.
You have precisely pointed out what I wanted to convey by paraphrasing it into a more intellectually acceptable form, perhaps?
Regarding the current phase, the doctrine of
Cardinal Richelieu, as followed by him while at the helm of state of affairs in France, come to my mind. The West is into it, that is also something which I agree to especially with regards to Baluchistan. Elsewhere, as I told
@That Guy , I have no doubts personally as to the status of Baluchistan, but it is something that can and will be exploited increasingly, due to Iran also being an affected party and CPEC cropping up.
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USSR is an old story and is history now but any step of Russia in today's times, we are not so sleepy in the case as knowing the history. However, there is always a bridge which connects to different ends to different location and turns into a whole new way to walk on. The political and diplomatic shape of the region is changing rapidly and to the lay man term, we are hearing formation of new blocks etc, is the picture with too much colours in it hard to name, but draws an image that worries many powers around like US due to China & Russia and to the some extent Pakistan while on other hand India against Pakistan & China."
I would beg to disagree when you call USSR an old story. I would rather call it the aberrant evolution of the Russian Empire. What you are trivialising here, is the perpetuation of a State as a 'going concern', if I may label it as such. In your contention above, you have correctly identified 'emergence' of blocs. Where you have either shied away from elaboration or perhaps have again trivialised the issue altogether, is the phase of Russian expansionism at the
cost of Chinese Empire when the
Qing Empire was in a decline and the work of
Count Nikolai Ignatieff, the Czar's brilliant and sly Plenipotentiary in Beijing. Perhaps if one was to take into consideration the present set of conditions facing Russia, it's political manoeuvring and diplomatic intrigues, as also it's economic status and matched it to this particular phase that I refer to above, things will become more clearer on a larger horizon. I shall leave it upto you, to make your own deductions when I say this. I am sure you shall be able to appreciate towards what end I have put out this perspective.
"I am not striking out the reservations of India against Pakistan here but the most fear is being injected by the powers to help rise an ally that would face regional powers supposed to be off own fear but played accordingly."
An oversimplification of a slightly distorted complexity.
India has a historical baggage of having surrendered it's legitimate interests in Tibet and allowing a nation separate from China to go under in order to achieve a permanent lasting peace and boundary settlement acceptable to both. It is pertinent to note, that the Tibetan Authorities did indeed agree on the MacMohan Line, and it was only China which did not. At the time, Tibet was not a part of the Chinese Qing Empire, nor was it so under the Nationalist Government which followed. What followed, was a naked aggression of a territory considered a part of the Chinese "empire", the thought process of the
"Celestial Court", in garb of communism
. The consistency in Chinese philosophy of governance and international relations is hard to miss.
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Saudi plays what they want to, Iran will be doing what she is promised to do so and Pakistan is more concerned with own interests. We can see that as in some areas Iran openly support India even knowing the India's doing within Pakistan or Kashmir but it reflects the Iran's diplomacy for her own Nation. Then there is stance of Russia towards many nations that is based upon her own interests though Pakistan's CPEC road and Gawadar is a long due to be done by now as well as, in short, a check mate to US influence that corners the Russia & China, yet this route made sure, for external powers, we cannot be contained nor cornered even we helped many others to play like this."
Your perception. The highlighted portion? It holds true again as per your perception.
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Indeed Baluchistan was a threat but now things are far better than before even a strong foot hold of Law & Order is maintained and progresses on daily basis though siding with two countries that are more close to our rival than us being neighbors that too on the basis of their own interests, to the some extent is harder to refrain them any intervention currently, but few messages delivered and current progress proved as what is done and what would happen."
My perception here changes as does yours with respect to Kashmir. If Kashmir is a supposed 'forceful occupation of India', a travesty of well recorded and established facts, then, by the same logic, so is Baluchistan. It is merely a case of
quid pro quo. The aim of raising Baluchistan was to drive in a point of susceptibilities on either sides in their process of nation formation. The need to refrain from highlighting them for mere strategic gains are fraught with potentially greater complexities than desirable.
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Everyone pets an evil though mine is more exposed to the world and advertised as badly as it can be through different means and resources that I am lacking currently but by minding own business and striving for the goals that I set, is more of key to the achievements and I am on the way. We, IMO, badly lack the propaganda machine which I think is also because of the Faith's teaching for us otherwise, the picture of us which is shown to the world through media wouldn't be in existing today. You can see current development and progress in Karachi that is getting back on normal routine but did receive the message especially during hot times of Kashmir and CPEC. Previously, it was done when WoT and OP was on peak that too was to divert the sources and attention to give a relief for those terrorists."
Again, a propensity to drag in faith, where there is absolutely no locus standii for the same. How does this logic hold? Can you elucidate? I would rather have accepted an excuse on basis of moral value system, something, which can not be exclusively shaped by faith/religion but rather is shaped pre-dominantly by the inherent familial and societal system of values, religion only giving it a semblance of insightful corrections or perversions (as we see with perversion of religious teachings and values by uneducated and downright ignorant 'merchants' of faith/religion)
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There are always narratives of the people up-to their own interests and same goes to the nations as well like yours Pakistan and India which cannot be overruled however, it is pertinent to mention that ones narrative becomes an evidence and fact at the time when strives hard and achieved it. On the same moment, it is not feasible to ignore the others narrative, as there is always 2 after 1 in serial so the one which lost in first place would be coming with more new ideas to overcome and counter any further achievements of the current winner. "
No two views on it. I think this truism is very succinctly put here by you.
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As soon as i start to write, 1000s of things started to spark but at the above end, thought, needs a break and might have missed many things in above but still a bit of an observation and narrative from general point of view or a broader picture, I felt must be shared now and rest is kept for any further interests."
I think you have held back more than you have typed out. I see a fragment, a fleeting glimpse of an idea, but you pull back. But I think, broadly speaking, I am able to get what you have tried to pen here.
Thanks
@Syed.Ali.Haider
I had typed this earlier. Don't recall the thought when I did. Putting it up.
