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Pakistan is not a muslim country

Nice sarcasm Bro! but that stuff is now pretty much old rustic cliche



I hate to ruin it for you two Dude! (epic face palm here) but what you interpret is not going to be as weighty as the words of:

1) Hazrat Abdulla bin Masood RA (named the Mufassir e Quran by the Prophet PBUH)
2) Hazrat Ibn e Abbas RA
3) Hazrat Jabir RA
4) Numerous Taabieen and Taba Taaebieen including Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb RA


maybe thats how YOU interpret it just coz you think of it that way doesn't mean it is haraam can you show me where did they clearly and specifically say that music is forbidden in islam ? can you show me not from man made sources but directly from the word of God the the koran where it says musical instruments/singing is not allowed ? some groups have music praising allah are they haraam ?
 
Yeah! just read my post above, has all the references with Surah and Ayah numbers and Bab and Hadith numbers. Notice the bold out and underlined parts and read, please do, especially the first verse of the Quran (Khanz dude! its not Koran, its Quran or Al-Furqan). :whistle:
 
I dunno what to say .. after your response I guess I would keep my beliefs to myself. Its difficult to discuss things which have faith assosiated with them. As I have said .. people have started believing what makes sense to them. That is not the premise of any religion.
 
I dunno what to say .. after your response I guess I would keep my beliefs to myself. Its difficult to discuss things which have faith assosiated with them. As I have said .. people have started believing what makes sense to them. That is not the premise of any religion.

I appreciate those words forcetrip! You are right! In the end everyone of us has the choice to believe whatever he chooses to! I'd respect that! and I think everyone should have that chance and choice!

As for me, my interest was to just inform you guys. The choice is always individual! :)
 
long but good article from an ISLAMIC website

Music is NOT forbidden in islam

Music is one of the purest and most beautiful creation of God Almighty who set the tone and rhythm of every sound in the universe. Music or singing like all the creations of God, that now constitute an important part of our daily life, can be lawfully used or maliciously abused. Both music and singing are created pure, and beautiful like our fresh air and fresh water and they can be corrupted or polluted by evil-doers of every nationality, color or gender. The corruption of some music shows or songs does not make all the music or songs haram (prohibited) just like the pollution of some water or fresh air by some people will not deem all the water and air haram (prohibited).

The sincere Muslim who is following the Quran will not find in the Quran ANY PROHIBITION whatsoever OF MUSIC OR SINGING. God is very specific and His commands are very clear regarding any prohibition given in the Quran. God, the Most Merciful, NEVER prohibited music or singing in the Quran. Any prohibition of music or singing that is talked about among some Muslims has no basis in the Quran. These prohibitions are innovations made up by some of the scholars and their followers who do not shy from refusing to follow the clear commands in the Quran and instead follow man made laws and books of Hadith and Sunna that contradict the Quran, contradict simple common sense and insult the message of the prophet Muhammad. These books of Hadith and sunna were written over 200 years after the death of prophet Muhammad (See Hadith and the corruption of this great religion). The prophet Muhammad himself followed and preached ONLY the Quran. These scholars and their followers, who failed to accept God's law in the Quran, looked for different kind of laws in the interpretation of Imams (leaders), Sahaba (companions) and Tabi'in (followers). They invented their own law and claimed that "Music and singing are haram." Those who are confused or ignorant with their Quran choose to follow the interpretation of these human idols and their laws and disregard the clear laws of God in the Quran. After all we should always remember that Quran is the book that God calls COMPLETE, PERFECT and FULLY DETAILED,


In the following paragraphs, we will see what the Quran says about this issue. I will expose the false teachings of those who refused the law of God in the Quran and made their own law to prohibit Music and singing. Understanding this issue is understanding Islam (submission) and what Islam stands for. There are certain basic understanding that you should know when talking about any laws in Islam (Submission). I will talk briefly about these basics first, God willing;


(1) Quran is a COMPLETE, PERFECT AND FULLY DETAILED BOOK, (as far as this religion is concerned): See 6:19.,38 and 114; 7:52; 17:12; 11:1; 41:3; 12:111, and 16:89. Those who refuse this notion by God Almighty should not go any further. They will not see or understand anything as God promised in His book.


(2) The Prophet Muhammad, lived by, ruled by, preached and followed the Quran alone. See 5:48-50

(3) God is the ONLY source of law, 6:114. No one, including the prophet Muhammad, can prohibit what God did not, 66:1. When the Prophet Muhammad once did, God admonished him in public to remind the believers that ONLY GOD can prohibit. See 66:1 and 33:37.
Many of those diseased at heart quote verse 59:7 as a proof that the prophet Muhammad permitted and prohibited on his own. They are hoping to confuse those who are not familiar with the Quran, as this verse is talking about the spoils of war and has nothing to do with any laws or any prohibitions.

(4) In addition to reminding us repeatedly that the Quran is DETAILED, God told us that He detailed for us what has been prohibited for us, see for example 6:119. God did not need assistance from any Imams, Sahaba or Tabi'in. God did not expect or wanted the prophet Muhammad to make his own laws. The Prophet Muhammad did not bring any laws other than the Quran, but the fabricators of the books of Hadiths and Sunna did.

(5) God does not forget, 19:64. He did not forget to prohibit Music or singing and waited for someone else to do it. The prohibition of Music and singing cannot be found in the Quran because God did not prohibit them.

(6) Those who believe God in His book believe that Quran is a COMPLETE BOOK as far as Islam is concerned and it is as well regarding all the prohibition. The list of prohibitions in the Quran does not include Music or singing. When needed, prohibitions are given clear and straight forward so as to leave no doubt in the minds of the believers, See 39:28.

(7) Some people do not want to believe God in the Quran, when He tells them that He has no shortage of words. God could have used both words, music AND/OR singing or words referring directly and clearly to them, if He so chose, See 31:27 and 18:109. The TRUE BELIEVERS know that the absence of these words from the Quran is because God never prohibited them and not because God does not use them, forget them, know them or know how.

(8) The Quran teaches us that God is extremely displeased with those who prohibit anything that was not specifically prohibited in the Quran, see 16:112-116.

(9) The upholding of any prohibitions not specifically mentioned in the Quran (e.g., prohibiting Music and singing) is tantamount to idolatry (6:142-152). Such prohibitions represent some other god) besides God.

(10) God condemned innovated prohibitions in 7:32

"Say, "Who prohibited the nice things God has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say," such provisions are to be enjoyed in THIS life by those who BELIEVE. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know." 7:32 (QURAN)

(11) God condemned any other Hadith than the Quran for religious laws, and called His book, the Quran, the BEST Hadith. God called on the believers to follow only His Hadith, the Quran, and so did the prophet Muhammad. See 7:185, 10:36, 31:6, 39:23, 45:6, 52:34, 68:44, 77:50, 39:29..., etc.



Now and before responding to those who claim that Music and singing are haram in Islam (Submission), let us ponder for few seconds at our universe and the way God created this world.

While we might remember that Galileo once said, "Mathematics is the language in which God wrote the universe.", it may be fair enough to say that Music has been the voice of that universe.

Any keen observer of the universe will realize that the whole universe was created with music in every corner of it. Our talking, crying, laughing, singing, yelling or screaming are nothing but music. Our heart beats, bowel sounds, breath sounds, the sound of our blood flow or even our brain waves are but music. The birds, the animals, the trees, the oceans, the wind and the clouds are all created with their own music. Music is in every corner of our universe. With music in every thing around us, it is naive to think that the One God who created all this music prohibited it. Those who claim that Music and singing are haram, lie about God and prohibit what God never did.

The human being was created and given one of the most valuable gifts, a voice box, which is in reality a music box. This voice box, or the larynx is one important instrument that allows us to communicate with each other and with other creatures around us. Our arrival and departure to and from this world are celebrated with that special music, the cry of the newborn or the cry for the departing one. The arrival of the newborn to this life is announced by his/her scream, the best music to the mother's ear. For the earlier months of the human being's life, the only way of communication is through the music that his/her voice box makes until he/she learns the more sophisticated music that is called the speech-language. It is not surprising to find out that listening to a foreign language is like listening to music with different tones. Those who prohibit music do not understand their Islam (Submission), or the basic gifts in life that God gave them.

A quick look at the life around those who condemn music and prohibit what God did not, will only expose their hypocrisy. Life around these people is full of music, a music they do not understand or appreciate, the music that God put in their life to prove to us how wrong they are.

Examples of such music around them are, the door bell, the car horn, the alarm clock, the telephone, fire alarm, the whistle of a tea pot , the computer, the radio, TV, the kids toys, the exotic birds, the lawn mower..., etc. All these are but few of the music producing instruments in our life. Those who missed the true Islam, missed what life actually means, they prohibit what God did not in His complete book, the Quran.



Now let us look at what these people use to claim that Music and singing are haram. I will specifically quote from the posting in AOL Islam BB. library with the title "Music and Singing" , posted on 9/2/96.


(1) First, it is interesting to see the inverted logic of these people. After finding no proof in the Quran to prohibit music, by their own admission, they resort to the weaker sources one after the other to try to prove what they could not find in the Quran. Those who refuse to accept the Quran as a complete book for this religion, are led by Satan into inventing all kinds of laws from sources outside the Quran.

(2) In every verse they used in an attempt to prove that music is haram, they ended by concluding that the verse does not really prohibit Music. Despite that, they never got the message that God DID NOT PROHIBIT MUSIC OR SINGING. They also failed to understand that prohibition laws ONLY COME from God. When the prophet Muhammad gave any prohibitions it was FROM THE QURAN ONLY, and was not from his own. When the prophet Muhammad once tried to prohibit on his own, God admonished him publicly, see 66:1. Here are the verses that they claim to prohibit music and singing with few comments from me;


a) Allah addresses the disbelievers of the Quraish as follows, "Do you marvel at this statement, and laugh and do not weep, while you amuse yourselves (proudly) in vanities? Rather, prostrate before Allah and worship Him." (53:59-62)


Because of the expression "amuse yourselves" these Muslims twisted the words and the logic to make a conclusion that music and singing is what is meant here. They are missing the point and the meaning that is clear to any sincere believer. The word is general and indicates that any kind of amusement that keeps you from paying your duties to God is leading you to commit a sin. It does not make it haram or prohibited. If you amuse yourself by watching Baseball while forgetting to do your Salat-prayers on time then you are committing a sin but this does not make Baseball haram. If you amuse yourself by playing games with your children while forgetting to pray on time you are committing a sin but playing with your children will not be haram. If you listen to music or singing and forget to do your prayers then you commit a sin but music does not become haram. Remember that music is like air and water, it is not haram per se, but the way it is used in certain circumstances will control its status then. I will elaborate on this later, God willing. While God did not prohibit music in this or any other verse, these group of Muslims find in human beings like sahaba, tabi'in, and later scholars of tafseer, idols, to prohibit for them what God did not. Al-Qurtubi, At-Tabari , Ibn Abbas, Al-Hasan, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak, Ibn Jareer ..., etc. are more important to these people than God.


b) Allah SWT addresses Satan thus; "And excite any of them whom you can with your voice. Assault them with your cavalry and infantry, be a partner with them in their wealth and children, and make them promises. But Satan promises nothing but deceit" (17:64)

Using this verse as a proof of prohibition of music and singing shows only how naive and misguided are those who are running after other gods than the One God who gave them a complete book, the Quran. No intelligent human being can accept the voice here as pointing to music and singing. If those confused at heart want to use the voice here to prohibit anything, then may be they should prohibit talking and all these people should not talk because Satan does.

It is clear from this verse that there is no prohibition here. God does prohibit things by saying it without any confusion and without leaving a place for guess. They quote here Ibn Abbas, as saying "the voice mentioned in the verse refers to any form of invitation which calls to disobedience to Allah." If this form of invitation is "talking nicely" to someone to make him/her disobey Allah, this does not make "talking nicely" haram. If the invitation here is accompanied by music or singing, this does not make the music or singing haram but rather it is the invitation to disobey God in any form that is haram. They do not like what God says in the Quran, but find nothing wrong in listening to Ibn Abbas even if they do not know who is Ibn Abbas is.

c) The third verse, and the one most often referred to as evidence of the prohibition of music and singing (according to them) is found is Sura Luqmaan.

"And there are among men those who purchase idle talk in order to mislead others from Allah's path without knowledge, and those who throw ridicule upon it. For such there will be a humiliating punishment." (31:6)


Again, like the previous verse, using the expression "idle-talk" (lahwal hadiths) to condemn music and singing is clearly corrupt. It only exposes the confused minds and hearts of those who do not understand that God does not run out of words and that God controls all the languages and will not leave guess work for us to prohibit what He did not.

Idle-talk can be any form of talk and not necessarily singing and music. There is usually more idle-talk that is calling on the people to disobey God in other forms than singing and music. These should be considered first. Hadiths and Sunna books are full of fabrications and lies that should be considered as idle-talk as they contradict the Quran and the true message of our beloved prophet Muhammad.

NOW THAT QURAN DOES NOT PROHIBIT MUSIC OR SINGING, these people looked for other idols to do this for them. They refused the law of the book that God called the Best Hadith (Quran). They refused to obey God in the Quran when He told them to follow no other hadith BUT the Quran for religious law.

A look at what they claimed as hadith of the prophet will show their misguidance and confusion. Here is an example of what these people quote and claimed it to the prophet which is a clear lie. The prophet cannot deviate from the Quran.


* "The Prophet SAWS said, "There will be (at some future time) people from my
ummah (community of Muslims) who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the
wearing of silk by men), wine-drinking, and the use of musical
instruments(ma'azif). Some people will stay at the side of a mountain and
when their shepherd comes in the evening to ask them for his needs, they will
say, 'return to us tomorrow.' Then Allah will destroy them during the night
by causing the mountain to fall on them, while he changes others into apes and
swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of
Resurrection.(related by Imam Al-Bukhari in Fat-hul Baari, graded sahih)


FIRST, God teaches us in the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad did not know the future. This will immediately expose the falsehood of this hadith and similar ones and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in the Quran. God told them Muhammad did not know the future.

"Say (O Muhammad), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." 7:188


"Say (O Muhammad), "I am not different from other messengers, I have NO IDEA what will happen to ME OR TO YOU. I ONLY follow what is revealed to me. I am NO MORE than a profound warner." 46:9


SECOND, For the past 1400 years there have been millions who listened to music and songs without mountains falling on top of them or turning into apes and pigs. I guess we should rather be afraid that all these millions of people turning to their computers now will turn into pigs and monkeys because their computers have all kinds of music built in them. This only shows the non-sense seen rampant in these so called Hadith and Sunna books.

As I said before, God created the music in our universe like the air and water and many other provisions. We cannot prohibit the water because someone washes his dirty clothes in it and we cannot prohibit the air because someone smokes around us. Music is as pure as fresh water and fresh air. It is up to us to use it or abuse it. Music is one of the great provisions from God that we should be grateful for. We should use it and enjoy it like we enjoy all the other provisions. If you indulge in eating your favorite food or drinking your favorite juice to the point you do not have time to do all your other duties towards God, then you committing a sin. Your food and drinks would not become haram (prohibited). If you indulge in any kind of music or singing that occupy you to the point that you do not remember God or your duties towards Him, then you are committing a sin but the music itself would not become haram (prohibited). If someone sings a song encouraging corruption or misbehavior then listening to that song intentionally may be a sin but this does not make all singing haram (prohibited.) It is true that many of the song lyrics we hear these days are disturbing but this does not make music or singing haram, it makes these specific songs undesirable and should be avoided. We need to warn our children and loved ones of these bad songs and bad lyrics but we should not prohibit what God never did, prohibit music or singing. We will not stop our children from reading books, newspapers, or magazines because some one produced a pornographic book, newspaper or magazine, we will tell them and warn them about these bad books or magazines. We will never stop our children from watching TV or videos because some people produce bad movies, programs or videos. If they do, they will miss all these great programs , movies or videos that teach them to appreciate God and His creation. We will instead teach them to choose the right programs.

Those who really appreciate music and the beautiful voices that God created, are more appreciative of God's creations and closer to God than those who prohibit what God did not and see evil in every beautiful creation of God.

"Say, "Who prohibited the nice things God has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say," such provisions are to be enjoyed in THIS life by those who BELIEVE. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know." 7:32 (QURAN)



MUSIC AND SINGING WERE NEVER PROHIBITED BY GOD. They are part of the most beautiful creations of God. As long as they do not call on the people or encourage them to commit sins, they are for the TRUE BELIEVERS TO ENJOY while remembering God with every beautiful note or rhythm. Those who prohibit what God never did in the Quran will be surprised on the Last Day when the messenger of God will complain to God from them, See 25:30.
Is it time yet to wake up and follow the QURAN, instead of following the man-made laws??!!

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 PM ----------

abtw I listen to music and play a musical instrument the music i enjoy doesn't encourage bad behaviour, contain any vulgar content or attack god in any way .I know some music is bad but i don't listen to it .Theres lots of music even is sung for a good cause(e.g we are the world by US for africa) and some songs even have positive messages look at man in the mirror by michael jackson he sings about helping the world starting by bettering yourself first I don't believe for one second that allah would look upon that as something satanic .So i'm sorry but nobody can tell me i'm doing haraam or activities .
 
here is an answer from islamonline on whether music is allowed or not:

Dear questioner, thanks for your question, which reflects the great confidence you place in us. We implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

In his response to the question you posed, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

“Music is an issue that has been hotly debated by scholars of the past and the present. While many of them have been generally inclined to condemn all forms of music, with the singular exception of ad-duff (tambourine) in weddings, quite a few of them have taken a more positive approach of considering only music containing sensual, pagan, or unethical themes or subliminal messages as being categorically forbidden.

The latter view seems to be more consistent with the general nature of Islam, which is undoubtedly a complete way of life that caters to all of the genuine human instincts and needs within permissible limits. Thus, to say that all music is forbidden in Islam does not seem to agree with the balanced approach of Islam to issues of human life and experience.

Traditions often cited by the first group scholars to justify condemnation of all musical instruments and music, according to some scholars, are considered as either spurious, or phrased in such way solely because of their associations with drinking, dancing, and sensuality.

While everyone agrees that all forms of music that contain pagan, sensual themes, or subliminal messages are clearly forbidden, the latter group of scholars considers all forms of music free of such themes and messages as permissible.

As a matter of fact, we know from the authentic traditions that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, not only allowed music in the weddings but also listened to girls singing: While listening to girls singing on such an occasion, he interrupted them only once when they sang the following verse, “In our midst is a prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow”; whence, the Prophet, peace be upon him, told them, “Cut this sentence out, and continue singing what you have been singing earlier.” There is nothing in the sources to indicate that the above permission is limited to the occasion of wedding, as some people tend to think.

In light of these, according to the last mentioned group of scholars, music that is deemed to be free of un-Islamic and unethical themes and messages, the same is true of musical instruments so long as they are not used for the above, have been considered as permissible.

But we have to stress that Islam clearly prohibits mixed dancing of males and females.”
 
You haven't provided a viable alternative,it seems all you can do is rant and ramble about Abdur Raheem's response without explaining what you feel would have been the correct response.
It seems I've pressed some buttons. Getting personal like that, really shows the character of the man.

In any case, I would have liked to hear an answer to the question, rather than an uneducated statement backed by an anecdote quite unrelated tot he question asked. Now you want me to tell you what I would have liked to hear as an answer. What a stupid thing to say. I admitted that, if you only took the time to read, the question was valid and I too would like to hear an intelligent answer. What we got was not one.

No, you stop criticising him.
He brought it upon himself with his deep insight.
 
@khanz, can you provide a source for the information you have posted in post number 50.

Do you realise that the author of this deviant article has rejected authentic ahadith in a most derogatory manner and has referred to the scholars of Islam as Idols.

I would urge you to be extremely careful in what you post and from what source,there are many deviant articles on the internet designed to confuse Muslims and steer them away from the true teachings of Islam. The scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, the ahadith and sunnah of the Prophet salalahu alayhi wasalam are part and parcel of Islam.The rulings of Islam are derived not only from the Quran but from ahadith as well.The misleading and deviant article you have posted rejects all ahadith. Do you reject hadith and sunnah too? If not then refrain from posting such kufr, if you do please say so, so that I may engage in a discussion with you on the subject.


here is an answer from islamonline on whether music is allowed or not:

I would not describe this response as a deviant one, the author here does no reject hadith,having said that the conclusion he has arrived at is incorrect.

O.K lets take a look at this answer

“Music is an issue that has been hotly debated by scholars of the past and the present. While many of them have been generally inclined to condemn all forms of music,

It has not been hotly debated, as the vast majority of scholars have accepted that music is impermissible.


with the singular exception of ad-duff (tambourine) in weddings,

Yes the duff in weddings and at eid etc has been permitted by the Prophet as explained by the vast majority of the Ulema of Islam.

quite a few of them have taken a more positive approach of considering only music containing sensual, pagan, or unethical themes or subliminal messages as being categorically forbidden.

It would have been good at this stage if the author could have named those scholars that have permitted Music,I myself know of a few but that does not hold much weight when compared to the vast majority.


The latter view seems to be more consistent with the general nature of Islam

Only that which is in accordance with Islamic texts can be consistent with the nature of Islam.


which is undoubtedly a complete way of life that caters to all of the genuine human instincts and needs within permissible limits.

Music is not a need or genuine human instinct.

Thus, to say that all music is forbidden in Islam does not seem to agree with the balanced approach of Islam to issues of human life and experience.

Again the author seems to be propagating what he feels is right based on his desires rather than on textual proofs.


Traditions often cited by the first group scholars to justify condemnation of all musical instruments and music, according to some scholars, are considered as either spurious, or phrased in such way solely because of their associations with drinking, dancing, and sensuality.

Here he is referring to this narration/hadith

The Prophet said (which means), "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illicit sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful..... [Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v].

This Hadeeth states that musical instruments are Haram,

In his book, Ighathat Al-Lahfan, Ibn Al-Qayyim said (commenting on the above hadith) "When the Prophet said, 'render as lawful,' he meant that it was unlawful, then the people made it lawful."

This is the correct position based on Quranic texts and authentic hadith.

While everyone agrees that all forms of music that contain pagan, sensual themes, or subliminal messages are clearly forbidden, the latter group of scholars considers all forms of music free of such themes and messages as permissible.

Again he has failed to name even one of the scholars that he claims permitted music.

As a matter of fact, we know from the authentic traditions that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, not only allowed music in the weddings but also listened to girls singing:

This is false and misleading, the messenger of Allah did not allow music as is common nowadays but allowed the beating of the duff which all the scholars agree is permissible in weddings and at eid. As far singing is concerned then as long as it is not accompanied by musical instruments and the lyrics do not contain haram words then it is permissible

While listening to girls singing on such an occasion, he interrupted them only once when they sang the following verse, “In our midst is a prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow”; whence, the Prophet, peace be upon him, told them, “Cut this sentence out, and continue singing what you have been singing earlier.” There is nothing in the sources to indicate that the above permission is limited to the occasion of wedding, as some people tend to think.

Again singing is permissible if the conditions are met, one of which is no musical instruments.

In light of these, according to the last mentioned group of scholars,

He talks of mentioned scholars yet has failed to quote even one who supports his position.

music that is deemed to be free of un-Islamic and unethical themes and messages, the same is true of musical instruments so long as they are not used for the above, have been considered as permissible.

Simply incorrect as can be seen by the hadith prohibiting musical instruments I posted above.

But we have to stress that Islam clearly prohibits mixed dancing of males and females.”

This is the type of thing we see happening all the time, people do not stay within the limits set out even by those who claim music is permitted. The video in the first post proves this point
 
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dude, he didn't say there are no muslims in Pakistan, he's saying sharia is not there


The OP sends us back to those cruel years when kabulis and some of their traitor Pakistan origin britches were blowing our madsajid, schools and civil and military infra for not having enough Islam around on regular basis . Many had their way with us for developing gwadar - - - - - -


Coming back to this "scholar", there are more Islamic laws in Pakistan than in any other country and to top it off we do select and grill our "ameer" like there's going to be no tomorrow.


Mr douche bag of a scholar could simply creep back to any of the suffocating hell holes where an fb like drags you in a dungeon. Jahil!
 
The OP sends us back to those cruel years when kabulis and some of their traitor Pakistan origin britches were blowing our madsajid, schools and civil and military infra for not having enough Islam around on regular basis . Many had their way with us for developing gwadar - - - - - -


Coming back to this "scholar", there are more Islamic laws in Pakistan than in any other country and to top it off we do select and grill our "ameer" like there's going to be no tomorrow.


Mr douche bag of a scholar could simply creep back to any of the suffocating hell holes where an fb like drags you in a dungeon. Jahil!

I remember them old days, it was a full onslaught on Pakistan, Pakistan public, Pakistan military. We had the suicide bombers, the 2 faced Mullahs on one page. These people really believed that Pakistan was going to fall but Allah almighty blessed Pakistan with a victory. I remember so many mullahs would not condemn the suicide bombers, they stayed quiet and were praying for Pakistan to fall, they kept making statements like the militants are only defending themselves and are martyrs but when it came to Pakistan army then they were saying they are not fighting for Islam etc. Basically hinting at people to not support the army.

Moving on to 2020, these same people are pretending to be moderate but preaching the same old stuff, the same people claiming terrorism is not good but still hold the same ideology and beliefs.

But dont be naive, they are waiting for a war to happen and for Pakistan to become weaker, then they will come out with the same propaganda about Pakistan being not Islamic enough, and highlight the bad things happening in Pakistan. It's the same old tricks.

Keep in mind, those who oppose Quran always find mistakes in Quran, find mistakes in Islam. It's just propaganda.
 
But dont be naive, they are waiting for a war to happen and for Pakistan to become weaker, then they will come out with the same propaganda about Pakistan being not Islamic enough, and highlight the bag things happening in Pakistan. It's the same old tricks.

Man it was hard. switching the TV on after coming from school was heart wrenching - - - - - - - -.
They mostly belong to those "unfortunate feudal, navab dynasties" who lost their swag and power to the state of Pakistan. You gonna find many of their descendants crawling around pdf too.
 
Man it was hard. switching the TV on after coming from school was heart wrenching - - - - - - - -.
They mostly belong to those "unfortunate feudal, navab dynasties" who lost their swag and power to the state of Pakistan. You gonna find many of their descendants crawling around pdf too.

Agree, Alhamdulillah it made us stronger. I still remember the propaganda, it was very powerful. Felt like everyone was against the Pakistan army. There were suicide bombings all over Pakistan but Pakistan army could not touch the militants and sponsors because they would be labelled as an army which is against Islam . They had the army checkmated for a while. This is why I believe the operations were delayed for many years. A very serious situation.

To be honest even I was confused about what was happening. I was alot younger then and less knowledgeable. Propaganda is a very dangerous tool.

The Pakistani public and our elders proved themselves to be intelligent people who had alot of sabr, they tolerated decade of suicide bombings but never rebelled against the state. They always said the enemies are trying to make us fight. Clever people, otherwise we would be in the same position as Syria, Yemen and Libya.
 

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