Viper0011.
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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
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The Eagle
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Just my opinion and request as well.
if is it the case the then it's better then before. First of all i must say that i am not advocating USA here. while going for deal and at the moment when we are getting into discussion with US, no need to bring the hatred of past as we use to claim that our armed forces are professionally handling things and are in deal so why start with few personal criticize here. We are in discussion with US as a Nation and an old ally as well. So also Men dealing the procurement are well aware how to drive. If we with a mindset jumps into deal that we will milk them, i don't think its the right idea and obviously this is not the case here. We are in talks and they have their own procedure to approve any sell so trust your end that we are paying them. So the real question arise that what we are offering them or what they demands for such deal. either the simple $ or there are few other things as well. So definitely people in talks knows how to proceed. My dear friends, let the things start getting into shape and if the the situation shapes into Win Win then obviously its going to happen something good.
I must say "When I am good then I am good. When I am bad then I am Better"
Pakistan Zindabad
if is it the case the then it's better then before. First of all i must say that i am not advocating USA here. while going for deal and at the moment when we are getting into discussion with US, no need to bring the hatred of past as we use to claim that our armed forces are professionally handling things and are in deal so why start with few personal criticize here. We are in discussion with US as a Nation and an old ally as well. So also Men dealing the procurement are well aware how to drive. If we with a mindset jumps into deal that we will milk them, i don't think its the right idea and obviously this is not the case here. We are in talks and they have their own procedure to approve any sell so trust your end that we are paying them. So the real question arise that what we are offering them or what they demands for such deal. either the simple $ or there are few other things as well. So definitely people in talks knows how to proceed. My dear friends, let the things start getting into shape and if the the situation shapes into Win Win then obviously its going to happen something good.
I must say "When I am good then I am good. When I am bad then I am Better"
Pakistan Zindabad
fatman17
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Block 60 with more advanced AESA radar, if the US government agrees to it
Will be block 52 as already inducted
fatman17
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No but it can
Signalian
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Anyone knows if this installation has been carried out on PAF F-16's?
HARPOON F-16 Installation
Integration of the AGM-84 with the F-16 required two main changes:
(i) addition of Harpoon-specific weapon control algorithms to the Stores Management System, and
(ii) development of an interface adapter kit.
The interface adaptor is basically an electronic component that converts weapons control instructions from the F-16 Stores Management System into instructions that can be interpreted by the weapon (Harpoon in this case).
Operational Use
Only a limited number of F-16 customers use the Harpoon on their F-16s:
source: F-16.net - The ultimate F-16, F-22, F-35 reference
HARDPOINTS 3 and 7 carry HARPOON
HARPOON F-16 Installation
Integration of the AGM-84 with the F-16 required two main changes:
(i) addition of Harpoon-specific weapon control algorithms to the Stores Management System, and
(ii) development of an interface adapter kit.
The interface adaptor is basically an electronic component that converts weapons control instructions from the F-16 Stores Management System into instructions that can be interpreted by the weapon (Harpoon in this case).
Operational Use
Only a limited number of F-16 customers use the Harpoon on their F-16s:
- Chile: The FACh's block 52 aircraft have Harpoon capability, but no missiles have been ordered
- Egypt: EAF Block 40 aircraft have Harpoon capability, no missile purchase yet
- Greece: HAF F-16 Block 52 aircraft armed with AGM-84 Harpoons were test-flown at Edwards AFB
- Israel: The IDF/AF is very likely to have Harpoon capability, but this is unconfirmed
- Oman: The RAFO purchased 20 missiles for its F-16 Block 50 fleet
- South Korea: The RoKAF Block 52 aircraft are Harpoon-capable, no confirmed missile purchase
- Taiwan: The RoCAF purchased 54 missiles for its F-16 Block 20 aircraft
- Turkey: The TUAF purchased 50 Harpoon missiles for their CCIP-upgraded F-16 Block 50 aircraft
- United Arab Emirates: The UAEAF's block 60 aircraft are Harpoon capable, and 52 missiles were purchased at the time of the Block 60 deal
- USA: Although the USAF was briefly interested in using the Harpoon on their F-16s during Operation Desert Storm and started the integration work, they lost interest when Desert Storm wound down. Not an operational customer.
source: F-16.net - The ultimate F-16, F-22, F-35 reference
HARDPOINTS 3 and 7 carry HARPOON
fatman17
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ASIA & PACIFIC
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?
By Usman Ansari
AAMIR QURESHI, AFP/Getty Images
Pakistani fighters F-16 fly on Nov. 4, 2013 during in the New Resolve military exercise in Khairpure Tamay Wali in Bahawalpur distirict.
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan continues to talk to the US about purchasing a new tranche of F-16 fighters, but analysts here warn that it is unclear if or when such a deal could close.
Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, head of the Pakistani Air Force, was quoted in local media here Monday saying Pakistan was "in talks with US defense officials to get some [of the] latest F-16s but the deal may take some time." He spoke at an event to mark Pakistan Aeronautical Complex having manufactured its target of 16 JF-17 Block II for 2015.
That follows reports from mid-October that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif would use a visit to Washington to push for the sale of eight F-16s for his military.
Pakistan currently operates a number of F-16 variants, so the addition of eight more jets is unlikely to have much impact on the local power balance between Pakistan and India.
However, the US Congress has historically been skeptical of arms sales to Pakistan, in no small part due to Indian lobbying, and any discussion of defense deals naturally must take this into account.
But circumstances could now be in Pakistan's favor. In addition to the Washington's speculated desire to maintain influence in Pakistan, there is a need to keep the F-16 production line open, which in the absence of domestic US orders can only be achieved through exports.
Despite the usual obstacles in the path of a deal, Brian Cloughley, an author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, says there is now a stronger chance that a deal could be struck.
"The India lobby in Congress is quite powerful and might help to block such sales to Pakistan, but the defense production lobby is much more influential,” Cloughley said. "On that basis, it's likely such a sale would get through."
Author and analyst Kaiser Tufail, who flew F-16s among other aircraft during his Air Force career, said that if negotiations really are serious he does not "see any reason why the US would be secretive about it."
He also questioned whether the US would use the possibility of more F-16s to maintain political ties with Pakistan at a time when China is strengthening its ties with the Asian nation.
"Under the ongoing Pak-China strategic cooperation, there must be great urgency in US quarters to retain influence in Pakistan. Any rumored offer of military hardware should be seen in that light," he said.
Lockheed Martin is represented in Pakistan by Kestrel, which also represents a number of other US firms such as Sikorsky, Gulf Stream, Hawker Beechcraft and L3 Communications. However, no comment was forthcoming from the firm about details such as the potential timeframe for a deal.
"There is no doubt that the F-16C-52 is the world's best single-engine fighter. Since we already operate a squadron of this type, its additional induction would be smooth," Tufail said.
David McKeeby, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, declined to comment on a proposed sale until it has been formally notified to Congress.
However, McKeeby noted that, “When provided in the past, Pakistan has used US-funded equipment and US-provided technology to significant effect in their counter-terrorism efforts. Pakistan's F-16 is one key example of how US support has improved Pakistan's precision strike capability and capacity to combat terrorist elements in North Waziristan.”
Those operations, he noted, are “in the national interests of both Pakistan and the United States.”
Modernization Efforts
More F-16s would certainly speed up Pakistan's modernization efforts and Aman also stated the intention to replace the older generation of jets, such as the Mirage III/5 aircraft, by 2020.
First in line for replacement has been the Chengdu F-7P, of which small numbers are still operational. According to PAF officials the more advanced double-delta winged F-7PG is likely to remain as a point defense interceptor for the time being.
Even if the F-16 sale does not materialize, however, the JF-17 program is on course, and a spokesman for the Air Force said production would be increased to meet export orders. Though no official confirmation has yet been forthcoming, Myanmar is considered by analysts to have been the first export customer.
Four Pakistani Air Force squadrons are now equipped with the JF-17 and the number will grow as China and Pakistan signed a deal in April for the delivery of 50 aircraft in the coming three years.
Some parts of the JF-17, such as the rear fuselage, are still manufactured in China by Chengdu.
Even without further F-16s, Tufail believes the JF-17 can easily replace the remaining F-7P and Mirage III/5 fleets in the desired timeframe.
"We should have no problem as it is a well-planned and a phased program. The JF-17 production capacity of one squadron (16 aircraft) per year fits in well with the plans to complete the replacement by 2020."
Aaron Mehta in Washington contributed to this report.
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?
By Usman Ansari
AAMIR QURESHI, AFP/Getty Images
Pakistani fighters F-16 fly on Nov. 4, 2013 during in the New Resolve military exercise in Khairpure Tamay Wali in Bahawalpur distirict.
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan continues to talk to the US about purchasing a new tranche of F-16 fighters, but analysts here warn that it is unclear if or when such a deal could close.
Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, head of the Pakistani Air Force, was quoted in local media here Monday saying Pakistan was "in talks with US defense officials to get some [of the] latest F-16s but the deal may take some time." He spoke at an event to mark Pakistan Aeronautical Complex having manufactured its target of 16 JF-17 Block II for 2015.
That follows reports from mid-October that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif would use a visit to Washington to push for the sale of eight F-16s for his military.
Pakistan currently operates a number of F-16 variants, so the addition of eight more jets is unlikely to have much impact on the local power balance between Pakistan and India.
However, the US Congress has historically been skeptical of arms sales to Pakistan, in no small part due to Indian lobbying, and any discussion of defense deals naturally must take this into account.
But circumstances could now be in Pakistan's favor. In addition to the Washington's speculated desire to maintain influence in Pakistan, there is a need to keep the F-16 production line open, which in the absence of domestic US orders can only be achieved through exports.
Despite the usual obstacles in the path of a deal, Brian Cloughley, an author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, says there is now a stronger chance that a deal could be struck.
"The India lobby in Congress is quite powerful and might help to block such sales to Pakistan, but the defense production lobby is much more influential,” Cloughley said. "On that basis, it's likely such a sale would get through."
Author and analyst Kaiser Tufail, who flew F-16s among other aircraft during his Air Force career, said that if negotiations really are serious he does not "see any reason why the US would be secretive about it."
He also questioned whether the US would use the possibility of more F-16s to maintain political ties with Pakistan at a time when China is strengthening its ties with the Asian nation.
"Under the ongoing Pak-China strategic cooperation, there must be great urgency in US quarters to retain influence in Pakistan. Any rumored offer of military hardware should be seen in that light," he said.
Lockheed Martin is represented in Pakistan by Kestrel, which also represents a number of other US firms such as Sikorsky, Gulf Stream, Hawker Beechcraft and L3 Communications. However, no comment was forthcoming from the firm about details such as the potential timeframe for a deal.
"There is no doubt that the F-16C-52 is the world's best single-engine fighter. Since we already operate a squadron of this type, its additional induction would be smooth," Tufail said.
David McKeeby, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, declined to comment on a proposed sale until it has been formally notified to Congress.
However, McKeeby noted that, “When provided in the past, Pakistan has used US-funded equipment and US-provided technology to significant effect in their counter-terrorism efforts. Pakistan's F-16 is one key example of how US support has improved Pakistan's precision strike capability and capacity to combat terrorist elements in North Waziristan.”
Those operations, he noted, are “in the national interests of both Pakistan and the United States.”
Modernization Efforts
More F-16s would certainly speed up Pakistan's modernization efforts and Aman also stated the intention to replace the older generation of jets, such as the Mirage III/5 aircraft, by 2020.
First in line for replacement has been the Chengdu F-7P, of which small numbers are still operational. According to PAF officials the more advanced double-delta winged F-7PG is likely to remain as a point defense interceptor for the time being.
Even if the F-16 sale does not materialize, however, the JF-17 program is on course, and a spokesman for the Air Force said production would be increased to meet export orders. Though no official confirmation has yet been forthcoming, Myanmar is considered by analysts to have been the first export customer.
Four Pakistani Air Force squadrons are now equipped with the JF-17 and the number will grow as China and Pakistan signed a deal in April for the delivery of 50 aircraft in the coming three years.
Some parts of the JF-17, such as the rear fuselage, are still manufactured in China by Chengdu.
Even without further F-16s, Tufail believes the JF-17 can easily replace the remaining F-7P and Mirage III/5 fleets in the desired timeframe.
"We should have no problem as it is a well-planned and a phased program. The JF-17 production capacity of one squadron (16 aircraft) per year fits in well with the plans to complete the replacement by 2020."
Aaron Mehta in Washington contributed to this report.
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khanasifm
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khanasifm
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Historically IAF (Israel) influenced 2 major a/c changes
1. Mirage 5 was IAF requirement first to take Mirage 3 and convert it to Ground Attack which were never delivered but IAF stole design and developed its own Nasher
2. F16 Block 50/52 customized for longer range as IAF could not afford many F15E so added formal tanks adding 450 Gallons to give it a range, if I remember correctly LM also pitted F16 with conformal tanks against F15E
F16 I or Sufi became Block 50/52+ which is no longer used now and LM is using Block 50/52 as all customer went with the modifications
With Approx. 50K full load F16 is no longer light weight and range fighter, With conformal tanks plus all three drop tanks its range is almost equal to anything out there plus still can carry decent war load and this is why PAF want to add more as well as price / value /capabilty as there is no need for separate logistics, training etc.
Most light weight fighter are under 15 tons where F16 is reaching App 20+ Tons
F-16I Soufa Multirole Fighter - Airforce Technology
The F-16I is fitted with a pair of removable conformal fuel tanks provided by IAI. The conformal fuel tanks (CFT), holding 450gal of extra fuel, are mounted on both sides of the upper fuselage. The very low drag configuration CFTs have a very small effect on the aircraft's agility, handling quality and flight limits. The use of the conformal tanks increases the aircraft's mission range and combat endurance.
LM F16 Life
F-16 Durability Testing: 25,000 Hours and Counting · Lockheed Martin
1. Mirage 5 was IAF requirement first to take Mirage 3 and convert it to Ground Attack which were never delivered but IAF stole design and developed its own Nasher
2. F16 Block 50/52 customized for longer range as IAF could not afford many F15E so added formal tanks adding 450 Gallons to give it a range, if I remember correctly LM also pitted F16 with conformal tanks against F15E
F16 I or Sufi became Block 50/52+ which is no longer used now and LM is using Block 50/52 as all customer went with the modifications
With Approx. 50K full load F16 is no longer light weight and range fighter, With conformal tanks plus all three drop tanks its range is almost equal to anything out there plus still can carry decent war load and this is why PAF want to add more as well as price / value /capabilty as there is no need for separate logistics, training etc.
Most light weight fighter are under 15 tons where F16 is reaching App 20+ Tons
F-16I Soufa Multirole Fighter - Airforce Technology
The F-16I is fitted with a pair of removable conformal fuel tanks provided by IAI. The conformal fuel tanks (CFT), holding 450gal of extra fuel, are mounted on both sides of the upper fuselage. The very low drag configuration CFTs have a very small effect on the aircraft's agility, handling quality and flight limits. The use of the conformal tanks increases the aircraft's mission range and combat endurance.
LM F16 Life
F-16 Durability Testing: 25,000 Hours and Counting · Lockheed Martin
Basel
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Block 60 with more advanced AESA radar, if the US government agrees to it
Can they fire Meteor BVRAAM???
khanasifm
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khanasifm
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Till DSCA Notification nothing is known and agreed to by seller and buyer
Major Arms Sales | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Major Arms Sales | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Signalian
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ROCAF F-16's upgraded with SABR Radar AN/APG-83, bringing up to standard F-16V.
(SABR) is a full-performance fire control radar for General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon and other aircraft. SABR offers all the advantages of a multi-function active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar with significant acquisition and life cycle cost savings. Designed to support next generation weapons and tactics, the SABR ensures the needed combat advantage over the adversary. In a 2013 competition, SABR was selected as the AESA radar for the F-16 modernization and update programs of the United States Air Force and Taiwan.
About the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) for the F-16
SABR optimizes radar system performance within existing power and cooling allocations of legacy F-16s worldwide and will make these F-16 fleets relevant for decades to come. SABR began flying in 2008 and continues to build an unmatched record of successful "firsts" with flight demonstrations now including proven performance in advanced combat-relevant tests. As the only fire control radar supplier with nearly four decades of F-16 radar integration experience, we are the sole provider of the low-risk option for an F-16 AESA radar program.
Affordability is in SABR's DNA
Northrop Grumman has industry-leading AESA fire control radar design, development and integration experience, and has produced thousands of airborne fire control radars for the U.S. Air Force and numerous international customers. As a world leader and sole provider of AESA radars for 5th Generation Fighters, Northrop Grumman continues to provide affordable AESA fire control solutions as well as award-winning cost efficiencies across F-16, F-22 and F-35 platforms.
Since SABR's initial unveiling, Northrop Grumman has continued efforts to reduce cost, prove performance and reduce risk. Our SABR system has accumulated thousands of operating hours in the lab and in the air — all without failure — demonstrating superior operational performance and reliability.
5th Generation fighter capability
One way Northrop Grumman provides such affordable AESA fire control radar solutions is through the porting of software that has already established proven performance in the most challenging of combat scenarios. Using this ported software, SABR flew side-by-side with the APG-81 in matching Northrop Grumman flight test aircraft and produced exceptional results, further documenting its proven performance.
For those seeking an affordable F-16 AESA solution for extending F-16 fleets and ensuring they remain relevant, lethal and survivable, there is no substitute for SABR’s proven results. Northrop Grumman is the only AESA provider that can offer this affordability, low risk and proven performance for results you can trust.
UAE AF uses AN/APG-80 AESA in Block 60 F-16 E/F
PAF F-16's use AN/APG-68 v5 Pulse Doppler.
(SABR) is a full-performance fire control radar for General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon and other aircraft. SABR offers all the advantages of a multi-function active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar with significant acquisition and life cycle cost savings. Designed to support next generation weapons and tactics, the SABR ensures the needed combat advantage over the adversary. In a 2013 competition, SABR was selected as the AESA radar for the F-16 modernization and update programs of the United States Air Force and Taiwan.
About the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) for the F-16
SABR optimizes radar system performance within existing power and cooling allocations of legacy F-16s worldwide and will make these F-16 fleets relevant for decades to come. SABR began flying in 2008 and continues to build an unmatched record of successful "firsts" with flight demonstrations now including proven performance in advanced combat-relevant tests. As the only fire control radar supplier with nearly four decades of F-16 radar integration experience, we are the sole provider of the low-risk option for an F-16 AESA radar program.
Affordability is in SABR's DNA
Northrop Grumman has industry-leading AESA fire control radar design, development and integration experience, and has produced thousands of airborne fire control radars for the U.S. Air Force and numerous international customers. As a world leader and sole provider of AESA radars for 5th Generation Fighters, Northrop Grumman continues to provide affordable AESA fire control solutions as well as award-winning cost efficiencies across F-16, F-22 and F-35 platforms.
Since SABR's initial unveiling, Northrop Grumman has continued efforts to reduce cost, prove performance and reduce risk. Our SABR system has accumulated thousands of operating hours in the lab and in the air — all without failure — demonstrating superior operational performance and reliability.
5th Generation fighter capability
One way Northrop Grumman provides such affordable AESA fire control radar solutions is through the porting of software that has already established proven performance in the most challenging of combat scenarios. Using this ported software, SABR flew side-by-side with the APG-81 in matching Northrop Grumman flight test aircraft and produced exceptional results, further documenting its proven performance.
For those seeking an affordable F-16 AESA solution for extending F-16 fleets and ensuring they remain relevant, lethal and survivable, there is no substitute for SABR’s proven results. Northrop Grumman is the only AESA provider that can offer this affordability, low risk and proven performance for results you can trust.
UAE AF uses AN/APG-80 AESA in Block 60 F-16 E/F
PAF F-16's use AN/APG-68 v5 Pulse Doppler.
Dazzler
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PAF vipers use V9s not V5s.
Signalian
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right but no AESA even when its available
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