AZADPAKISTAN2009
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Great engineering work in side very comfortable vehicle for a army unit
Pakistan army obtain 3 LAZAR2 Vehicles
- Thread starter HAIDER
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proka89
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I have some news concerning this topic, according to one member of Serbian Mycity military forum, which claims that he saw official documents concerning this deal.
And according to him Karachi police ordered 3 Lazar 2 vehicles, and 13 BOV M11 armored vehicles, with option to expand this deal for one more Lazar 2, and 3 BOV M11.
Price of the Lazar 2 is around 1 300 000 $, in this configuration:
Armor - Level IV STANAG
Mine resistant - Level IIIb
Armed with - 12.7 RCWS
Termovision
Cartridge case and gunpowder gases collector
Run flat tires
Price of BOV M11 is around 450 000 $, in this configuration:
Armor - Level III STANAG
Mine resistant - Level IIb
Armed with - 12.7 RCWS
Run flat tires
And according to him Karachi police ordered 3 Lazar 2 vehicles, and 13 BOV M11 armored vehicles, with option to expand this deal for one more Lazar 2, and 3 BOV M11.
Price of the Lazar 2 is around 1 300 000 $, in this configuration:
Armor - Level IV STANAG
Mine resistant - Level IIIb
Armed with - 12.7 RCWS
Termovision
Cartridge case and gunpowder gases collector
Run flat tires
Price of BOV M11 is around 450 000 $, in this configuration:
Armor - Level III STANAG
Mine resistant - Level IIb
Armed with - 12.7 RCWS
Run flat tires
CheefCoach
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Let's makes things less confusing, and newsmen in Serbia are great for confusing everyone. Those Lazar vehicle, those 3, was bought by Karachi police department, alongside with some BOV vehicles. So Pakistan Army might or might not bought any Lazar 2. Problem is because press is confusing Lazar 1, Lazar 2 and BOV M10 and M11 between each others. Every time somebody is buying Nora B 52 he will get some BOVs as command and fire control vehicles. That is what Kenya and Bangladesh is getting.
RescueRanger
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Remind me again the strength of the BAF and Bangladesh Army?
Penguin
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Tracks give better cross country performance relative to wheels, but wheels are faster on road (and less damaging), not to mention cheaper.
Wheeled APCs would typically have a central tire pressure regulation system to adjust tire pressure to terrain/surface. They also typically have 'runflat tires'. A run-flat tire is a pneumatic vehicle tire that is designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds and for limited distances. 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles may be able to keep moving with a wheel blown off.
proka89
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Without armour: Waiting on new APCs while bullets pierce through old ones
KARACHI:
The morale of the police force has understandably hit an all-time low given the number of men it has lost to recent attacks. What is making matters worse is that they still have to go out in the field unprotected and unmotivated. The government has been making empty promises of providing them with armoured personnel carriers (APCs) for the last two years.
The most recent claims were made by Federal Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar and Sindh Chief Minister Qaim Ali Shah on Thursday last week, when they again reiterated for “emergency procurement of bullet-proof vehicles in weeks’ time.” The officials, however, don’t expect the APCs to reach them anytime soon.
The same was said by the CM on December 15 last year, when he announced to provide APCs to the department but said there were no funds available. For their part, the Sindh government claims it is depending on the federal government to disburse the funds. “The personnel are trying to do their best, but it is quite difficult to perform our job without the appropriate equipment,” the adviser to home ministry, Sharfuddin Memon told The Express Tribune. “Despite having suffered several losses, the morale is still high. It will not, however, stay high if the federal government continues to use delay tactics.”
In desperate need
The APCs that the police department currently have are so badly damaged that bullets can easily pierce through them. In mid-November, 2013, several bullets penetrated through the body of an APC, killing a police official, Muhammad Essa and injuring another, Asad. The attack occurred on Mirza Adam Khan Road and was reportedly carried out by members of the Baba Ladla group. “Our initial reaction was that one of us inside the APC might have opened fire by mistake,” recalls Asad, who sustained a bullet-wound in his upper torso. Investigations later confirmed that the gangsters’ bullets had penetrated the APC.
Earlier in the eight-day long operation in Lyari in May 2012, almost 18 APCs were destroyed by rockets, hand grenades and anti-aircraft guns used by the criminals. The damage was not just limited to the destruction of the APCs however – Civil Lines SHO Fawad Ahmed Khan also lost his life in the attacks.
The failed operation and loss of SHO Khan had compelled the Sindh Police to replace the B-6 level APCs manufactured by Heavy Industries Taxila. Currently, the Sindh Police has around 90 APCs, manufactured by the HIT. The wheeled variety of locally manufactured APCs (B-6) costs about Rs17.5 million each, while the B-7, an upgraded version, costs about Rs55 million. The department had shown interest in buying APCs from foreign countries.
To achieve the plan, the police logistics experts approached at least five countries – Turkey, Ukraine, Russia, Serbia and United States of America.
It was subsequently decided to procure at least 20 Serbian Lazar II armoured fighting vehicles. The vehicles were meant to reach the city by December 2012, but could not be purchased due to the lack of interest by the relevant authorities. The lethargic attitude of the authorities in giving practical shape to the project has caused losses of around Rs150 million because of the increase in dollar rates, The Express Tribune has learnt.
“Serbia was the only country that gave us a live demonstration by firing and bombing the vehicle while we were inside,” said the former Sindh police’s DIG Finance Dost Ali Baloch who was a part of the team of experts who visited Serbia. “Besides this, Serbia also offered to deliver the APCs in two phases by the end of December 2013 with the lowest cost worth around Rs1 billion for 20 APCs.”
Meanwhile, police officials said that the Transparency International-Pakistan’s (TIP) reservations regarding the purchase of Lazar II from Serbia caused a delay in buying the vehicles. In September 2013, TIP had sent a reminder to Sindh IGP Shahid Nadeem Baloch and asked him to examine the rules before buying the vehicles.
KARACHI:
The morale of the police force has understandably hit an all-time low given the number of men it has lost to recent attacks. What is making matters worse is that they still have to go out in the field unprotected and unmotivated. The government has been making empty promises of providing them with armoured personnel carriers (APCs) for the last two years.
The most recent claims were made by Federal Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar and Sindh Chief Minister Qaim Ali Shah on Thursday last week, when they again reiterated for “emergency procurement of bullet-proof vehicles in weeks’ time.” The officials, however, don’t expect the APCs to reach them anytime soon.
The same was said by the CM on December 15 last year, when he announced to provide APCs to the department but said there were no funds available. For their part, the Sindh government claims it is depending on the federal government to disburse the funds. “The personnel are trying to do their best, but it is quite difficult to perform our job without the appropriate equipment,” the adviser to home ministry, Sharfuddin Memon told The Express Tribune. “Despite having suffered several losses, the morale is still high. It will not, however, stay high if the federal government continues to use delay tactics.”
In desperate need
The APCs that the police department currently have are so badly damaged that bullets can easily pierce through them. In mid-November, 2013, several bullets penetrated through the body of an APC, killing a police official, Muhammad Essa and injuring another, Asad. The attack occurred on Mirza Adam Khan Road and was reportedly carried out by members of the Baba Ladla group. “Our initial reaction was that one of us inside the APC might have opened fire by mistake,” recalls Asad, who sustained a bullet-wound in his upper torso. Investigations later confirmed that the gangsters’ bullets had penetrated the APC.
Earlier in the eight-day long operation in Lyari in May 2012, almost 18 APCs were destroyed by rockets, hand grenades and anti-aircraft guns used by the criminals. The damage was not just limited to the destruction of the APCs however – Civil Lines SHO Fawad Ahmed Khan also lost his life in the attacks.
The failed operation and loss of SHO Khan had compelled the Sindh Police to replace the B-6 level APCs manufactured by Heavy Industries Taxila. Currently, the Sindh Police has around 90 APCs, manufactured by the HIT. The wheeled variety of locally manufactured APCs (B-6) costs about Rs17.5 million each, while the B-7, an upgraded version, costs about Rs55 million. The department had shown interest in buying APCs from foreign countries.
To achieve the plan, the police logistics experts approached at least five countries – Turkey, Ukraine, Russia, Serbia and United States of America.
It was subsequently decided to procure at least 20 Serbian Lazar II armoured fighting vehicles. The vehicles were meant to reach the city by December 2012, but could not be purchased due to the lack of interest by the relevant authorities. The lethargic attitude of the authorities in giving practical shape to the project has caused losses of around Rs150 million because of the increase in dollar rates, The Express Tribune has learnt.
“Serbia was the only country that gave us a live demonstration by firing and bombing the vehicle while we were inside,” said the former Sindh police’s DIG Finance Dost Ali Baloch who was a part of the team of experts who visited Serbia. “Besides this, Serbia also offered to deliver the APCs in two phases by the end of December 2013 with the lowest cost worth around Rs1 billion for 20 APCs.”
Meanwhile, police officials said that the Transparency International-Pakistan’s (TIP) reservations regarding the purchase of Lazar II from Serbia caused a delay in buying the vehicles. In September 2013, TIP had sent a reminder to Sindh IGP Shahid Nadeem Baloch and asked him to examine the rules before buying the vehicles.
Bratva
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The real story behind IG Sindh’s snap sacking
Controversy over plan to buy Rs8 bn APCs, bullet-proof jackets, other equipment for police
Imdad Soomro & Usman ManzoorSaturday, July 05, 2014
From Print Edition
KARACHI/ISLAMABAD: The saga of purchase of bomb-proof armoured personnel carriers (APCs) and other security related equipment, worth Rs8 billion, from a vendor of an Eastern European country for the Sindh Police has been the cause of the third senior casualty in Sindh bureaucracy.
Sacked Inspector General of Sindh Police Iqbal Mehmood became the third officer who had been kicked out from the post for not obliging the controversial orders of a highly influential personality regarding the procurements of arms, ammunition and APCs and fresh appointments in the Sindh Police, The News has learnt.
Sindh Chief Secretary Sajjad Salim Hotiana says that he neither pressurised any officer to purchase any armoured vehicle from a specified vendor nor did he remove the IG Sindh. He says that as per the new law, the IG Sindh alone can go for the purchase of weapons and APCs and does not need the chief secretary’s or home secretary’s approval.
According to well-placed sources in the Sindh government, former chief secretary Aijaz Chaudhry and Additional Chief Secretary, Home Department, Sindh, Syed Mumtaz Shah, had already been removed from their posts due to their objections to the purchase of Rs8 billion weapons for the police.
Police are heading for a mega purchase of Rs8 billion bomb-proof APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other security equipment but apparently the stage has been set for a pre-selected vendor to make big bucks.
Recently, the Karachi Police chief wrote to the government for urgent need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets, helmets and other equipment which was responded by the Sindh government in the form of legislation, lifting the mandatory Public Procurement Regulatory Authority’s (PPRA) rules for one year to fulfil the requirements of the Karachi Police.
Both, the government and the opposition in the Sindh Assembly supported the Sindh Emergency Procurement Bill 2014, and the bill was unanimously passed on February 7, 2014. The law allows the law enforcement agencies to procure the latest weapons, bomb-proof vehicles and other material by putting the existing procurement rules in abeyance for one year.
Details reveal that in 2012, a vendor from an east European country was brought by some businessmen and meetings were held with the Karachi Police officers, and it was urged to purchase APCs from that vendor.
Many senior officers of the Karachi Police objected to the proposal and asked the vendor and his businessmen friends come through international bidding if he wanted to sell the APCs, said a senior police officer requesting anonymity. The sources maintained that the Karachi Police were previously purchasing the B-6 level APCs from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory, Wah, but now they needed the B-7 level APCs and that was why, the vendor was called from Europe to sell his APCs.
“Even some officers were taken to Europe to see the APCs in 2012,” said the sources. “The main reason of a straight no to the European vendor was that first he came himself and secondly, the police did not have the funds at that time,” said a senior officer, adding: “Later, the businessmen came with an idea that the Sindh government would generate the funds, but the idea could not materialise.”
The police officers at that time had told the businessmen and the vendor that the APCs required by the Karachi Police must be supplied with after sale, service, maintenance, repair and spare parts guarantee, the sources added.
Later, after the general election, the sources said, the same vendor was again introduced and a meeting was held which resulted in a drastic change in the mind of the Karachi Police officers.
Former CCPO Karachi Shahid Hayat wrote to the government that the Karachi Police were in dire need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other equipment, the sources held. “On the basis of the CCPO’s request, the Sindh Assembly passed a unanimous bill to make procurements for the law enforcement agencies on an emergency basis without following the PPRA Rules,” the sources said.
Karachi’s former police chief Shahid Hayat, while talking to The News in April, had said he knew that in 2012 a vendor came to sell his APCs and an MoU was signed, but that could not materialise as there were objections raised to the procurement process.
Shahid Hayat had said that at present, the Karachi Police were in dire need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other equipment to control the crimes in Karachi and that was why he had asked the government to help it.
Sindh Chief Secretary Sajjad Salim Hotiana, when contacted, said the Sindh government had passed a law which gives the IG all the powers to purchase weapons and other related equipment on his own and neither the chief secretary was involved nor did he ever ask the IG to strike a deal with the eastern European vendor.
He said that an impression was being created that the chief secretary was behind the IG’s removal but the facts were that he never asked him to do a specific purchase.
He maintained that the political government might not be happy over the performance of the IG or there may be some other reason that he had been removed. All the chief secretary has to do is to obey the orders of the chief minister and send the summary to the Establishment Division.
Controversy over plan to buy Rs8 bn APCs, bullet-proof jackets, other equipment for police
Imdad Soomro & Usman ManzoorSaturday, July 05, 2014
From Print Edition
KARACHI/ISLAMABAD: The saga of purchase of bomb-proof armoured personnel carriers (APCs) and other security related equipment, worth Rs8 billion, from a vendor of an Eastern European country for the Sindh Police has been the cause of the third senior casualty in Sindh bureaucracy.
Sacked Inspector General of Sindh Police Iqbal Mehmood became the third officer who had been kicked out from the post for not obliging the controversial orders of a highly influential personality regarding the procurements of arms, ammunition and APCs and fresh appointments in the Sindh Police, The News has learnt.
Sindh Chief Secretary Sajjad Salim Hotiana says that he neither pressurised any officer to purchase any armoured vehicle from a specified vendor nor did he remove the IG Sindh. He says that as per the new law, the IG Sindh alone can go for the purchase of weapons and APCs and does not need the chief secretary’s or home secretary’s approval.
According to well-placed sources in the Sindh government, former chief secretary Aijaz Chaudhry and Additional Chief Secretary, Home Department, Sindh, Syed Mumtaz Shah, had already been removed from their posts due to their objections to the purchase of Rs8 billion weapons for the police.
Police are heading for a mega purchase of Rs8 billion bomb-proof APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other security equipment but apparently the stage has been set for a pre-selected vendor to make big bucks.
Recently, the Karachi Police chief wrote to the government for urgent need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets, helmets and other equipment which was responded by the Sindh government in the form of legislation, lifting the mandatory Public Procurement Regulatory Authority’s (PPRA) rules for one year to fulfil the requirements of the Karachi Police.
Both, the government and the opposition in the Sindh Assembly supported the Sindh Emergency Procurement Bill 2014, and the bill was unanimously passed on February 7, 2014. The law allows the law enforcement agencies to procure the latest weapons, bomb-proof vehicles and other material by putting the existing procurement rules in abeyance for one year.
Details reveal that in 2012, a vendor from an east European country was brought by some businessmen and meetings were held with the Karachi Police officers, and it was urged to purchase APCs from that vendor.
Many senior officers of the Karachi Police objected to the proposal and asked the vendor and his businessmen friends come through international bidding if he wanted to sell the APCs, said a senior police officer requesting anonymity. The sources maintained that the Karachi Police were previously purchasing the B-6 level APCs from the Pakistan Ordnance Factory, Wah, but now they needed the B-7 level APCs and that was why, the vendor was called from Europe to sell his APCs.
“Even some officers were taken to Europe to see the APCs in 2012,” said the sources. “The main reason of a straight no to the European vendor was that first he came himself and secondly, the police did not have the funds at that time,” said a senior officer, adding: “Later, the businessmen came with an idea that the Sindh government would generate the funds, but the idea could not materialise.”
The police officers at that time had told the businessmen and the vendor that the APCs required by the Karachi Police must be supplied with after sale, service, maintenance, repair and spare parts guarantee, the sources added.
Later, after the general election, the sources said, the same vendor was again introduced and a meeting was held which resulted in a drastic change in the mind of the Karachi Police officers.
Former CCPO Karachi Shahid Hayat wrote to the government that the Karachi Police were in dire need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other equipment, the sources held. “On the basis of the CCPO’s request, the Sindh Assembly passed a unanimous bill to make procurements for the law enforcement agencies on an emergency basis without following the PPRA Rules,” the sources said.
Karachi’s former police chief Shahid Hayat, while talking to The News in April, had said he knew that in 2012 a vendor came to sell his APCs and an MoU was signed, but that could not materialise as there were objections raised to the procurement process.
Shahid Hayat had said that at present, the Karachi Police were in dire need of APCs, bullet-proof jackets and other equipment to control the crimes in Karachi and that was why he had asked the government to help it.
Sindh Chief Secretary Sajjad Salim Hotiana, when contacted, said the Sindh government had passed a law which gives the IG all the powers to purchase weapons and other related equipment on his own and neither the chief secretary was involved nor did he ever ask the IG to strike a deal with the eastern European vendor.
He said that an impression was being created that the chief secretary was behind the IG’s removal but the facts were that he never asked him to do a specific purchase.
He maintained that the political government might not be happy over the performance of the IG or there may be some other reason that he had been removed. All the chief secretary has to do is to obey the orders of the chief minister and send the summary to the Establishment Division.
ThePakistaniHoneyBadger
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I would rather buy the BTR-90 than the Lazar 2 though.
Super Falcon
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Why only 3 we buy did we got manufacturing rights in deal
Dynamic Defense Solutions
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How could Pakistan buy from Serbia? they had faced tough times during Chechnya deployment, and there are far better quality 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles available in market than Lazar
u r right, this deal was never closed.
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