Pakistan Air Force Transport

[Imran Khan]

I don't think we need these heavy transport planes. C-130 suite and serve us the best and if anything, we would be looking for a comparable aircraft to supplement the C-130 fleet. The Y-20 is something we wont be needing unless we start shopping to feel good.

only matter of time and engine sir i am watching it in pakistan after engine issue solve

 

[Beast]

Sir don't you think getting a few more Il-78 will be better for us as well? What will be the requirement of aerial refuelers keeping in mind our geography, air force doctrine and the number of planes? I think 7 - 10 will be enough on max end and we can do just fine with 4-6 as well. Keeping that in views, i feel that getting more IL-78 will be better rather then operating two kinds, specially when we really do not have a huge need for big air lifters. What do you suggest/think? AND if you suggest that Y-20 will be better option what kind of numbers will you propose? (we are just discussing this matter so it is purely speculation, i hope people wont start quoting this as confirmation of PAF getting Y-20)


Yes that is what i meant to say dear, that DO we need to air lift MBT? As far as i can tell by the studying PA doctrine and polices and looking and the geography of my country and the distances of different possible fronts from one another and from the bases, i feel that we may not need 5 Y20 sir transporting 5 MBT to a different theater! C-130 meets and fulfill the basic transport needs and we only have basic transport needs.

Simply speaking, where do you think we will like our 5 MBT tanks delivered by Y-20? to which sector? I cant think of any.

IL-78 cargo bay is much smaller compare to Y-20. It cannot fit an alkalid MBT into it. Plus max payload is 52 tons which in future PA MBT gets heavier, it cant lift off.

 

[Arsalan]

IL-78 cargo bay is much smaller compare to Y-20. It cannot fit an alkalid MBT into it. Plus max payload is 52 tons which in future PA MBT gets heavier, it cant lift off.

Sir sorry if i was not able to make my point clear. The thing i was pointing too was that do we really need to transport 5 MBT tanks anywhere? The C-17 have bigger cargo bay and the C-5 have even bigger one but what is the argument here? My point was not that IL-78 is equally capable but that IL-78 is enough for OUR NEEDS. Why do we need to transport MBT? to where exactly?

Well now that i read my own post again i realize that i did made this question quite clear.

only matter of time and engine sir i am watching it in pakistan after engine issue solve

What do you suggest will be its role? what needs will this satisfy sir jee? How many numbers you think we will go for?
(for Fan boys again, we are just speculating and expressing our personal point of view, it is by no way any official statement or confirmation or not anything that any "source" have told anyone!! JUST SPECULATING. I hope Imran sahib and QUWA will agree with this. We do not want to give any wrong ideas)

 

[Imran Khan]

Sir sorry if i was not able to make my point clear. The thing i was pointing too was that do we really need to transport 5 MBT tanks anywhere? The C-17 have bigger cargo bay and the C-5 have even bigger one but what is the argument here? My point was not that IL-78 is equally capable but that IL-78 is enough for OUR NEEDS. Why do we need to transport MBT? to where exactly?

Well now that i read my own post again i realize that i did made this question quite clear.


What do you suggest will be its role? what needs will this satisfy sir jee? How many numbers you think we will go for?
(for Fan boys again, we are just speculating and expressing our personal point of view, it is by no way any official statement or confirmation or not anything that any "source" have told anyone!! JUST SPECULATING. I hope Imran sahib and QUWA will agree with this. We do not want to give any wrong ideas)

sir we all know we are using 40 to 50 years old c-130s some even we pick from thrown away . if we have more budget we have upgraded our fleet of c-130s since long ago . our il-78s are also old monks . in fact our transport fleet is aging and outdated . future was USA if they retired some c-17s and we got but this look impossible . we have no money for c-130J . russian and EU need more dollars . so what left is china and Chinese products for us . i think 12 or 18 of these in multi role configuration will be best for us on soft loans like our ZDK-03s . they are far far better from our 1960 inducted c-130 9no matter how much we upgrade them they have to face graveyard near future .

 

[Quwa]

Sir don't you think getting a few more Il-78 will be better for us as well? What will be the requirement of aerial refuelers keeping in mind our geography, air force doctrine and the number of planes? I think 7 - 10 will be enough on max end and we can do just fine with 4-6 as well. Keeping that in views, i feel that getting more IL-78 will be better rather then operating two kinds, specially when we really do not have a huge need for big air lifters. What do you suggest/think? AND if you suggest that Y-20 will be better option what kind of numbers will you propose? (we are just discussing this matter so it is purely speculation, i hope people wont start quoting this as confirmation of PAF getting Y-20)

4-6 Y-20s (replacing IL-78s). The real variable IMO would be Y-20's fuel efficiency. It seems to use the same D-30KP turbofans as the IL-78s, but I wonder if its airframe design and other aspects make it less of a guzzler compared to the Midas. If so, then I think the PAF would go that route.

 

[Arsalan]

4-6 Y-20s (replacing IL-78s). The real variable IMO would be Y-20's fuel efficiency. It seems to use the same D-30KP turbofans as the IL-78s, but I wonder if its airframe design and other aspects make it less of a guzzler compared to the Midas. If so, then I think the PAF would go that route.

hmmm,
Lets see. I am not sure who much difference only the air frame design will make with the same engines, remember that Y20 is some 30 ton heavier as well.

sir we all know we are using 40 to 50 years old c-130s some even we pick from thrown away . if we have more budget we have upgraded our fleet of c-130s since long ago . our il-78s are also old monks . in fact our transport fleet is aging and outdated . future was USA if they retired some c-17s and we got but this look impossible . we have no money for c-130J . russian and EU need more dollars . so what left is china and Chinese products for us . i think 12 or 18 of these in multi role configuration will be best for us on soft loans like our ZDK-03s . they are far far better from our 1960 inducted c-130 9no matter how much we upgrade them they have to face graveyard near future .

Sir ge Y-20 are NOT a replacement of C-130. So when we are to replace C-130 wont the the Chinese Y-9 make much more sense? They are relatively similar while the Y-20 is a totally different thing. It is not something that can replace a medium size medium lift propeller aircraft. Y-9 makes much more sense in that scenario.

 

[Imran Khan]

hmmm,
Lets see. I am not sure who much difference only the air frame design will make with the same engines, remember that Y20 is some 30 ton heavier as well.


Sir ge Y-20 are NOT a replacement of C-130. So when we are to replace C-130 wont the the Chinese Y-9 make much more sense? They are relatively similar while the Y-20 is a totally different thing. It is not something that can replace a medium size medium lift propeller aircraft. Y-9 makes much more sense in that scenario.

sir i think it should not only replacement but also up-gradation for next generation is also important . should we stuck in turboprop for 100 years ? keep in the mind we have used them already 60 years . its not few years deal we will use them next 20-25 years sir .bigger plane more load and more troops means more power .in fact we need these kind of bird since long time but we have no option . but now we have one .

 

[Arsalan]

sir i think it should not only replacement but also up-gradation for next generation is also important . should we stuck in turboprop for 100 years ? keep in the mind we have used them already 60 years . its not few years deal we will use them next 20-25 years sir .bigger plane more load and more troops means more power .in fact we need these kind of bird since long time but we have no option . but now we have one .

Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please!

As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.

 

[Beast]

Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please!

As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.

It's is an tactical airlift. You can transport large number of tactical hardware to hot spot or even military build up. Y-20 can rapidly transport your Cobras gunship a thousand away. You don't expect your gunship to fly a thousand km by itself, do you? That is something C-130 Hercules can't do it when compare to Y-20.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.

Don't be so sure, Sir. Those IL-78s are difficult to maintain, Trust me. That's all I am saying.

 

[Imran Khan]

Sir, aik tu app mujy "Sir" kaah kaa sharminda na kia krain.. please!

As for a move into next generation, sir modern turbo props are next generation. There are certain advantages that the cargo planes like C-130 and Y-9 offer that cant be found in Y20 or those Globe Masters. This is the reason they are still here and will remain here for decades to come and this is the reason we see so many nations investing millions of dollars in these projects. A-400M, Y-9, Super Hercules, AN70 (re-initiated) all point in that direction (specially the first two). So if these can handle our cargo capacity requirements (which i think they do) the these will be the best option for us. Y20 are heavy lift cargo planes and i see not much application in case of Pakistan. Not saying that if we can get a few then it will be a disaster, these sure look impressive planes. It is just that i personally cannot think of what real value they will add, what practical advantage they will bring for Pakistan. May be something that i am missing but i dont think so.

sir jee ab takiya kalam hai mazarat ke sath sir jee


btw i am agree with your points and i think may be western platforms like c130-j or A-400s may be stay for long but y-9 is not better replacement of C-130 as you may know lifespan of Y-9 or even Y-20 is not as western planes . over all i am not fully disagree with you sir . you have raised some nice points also . but i think cn-235 and Y-20 only two platforms are suitable for light and heavy transport roles . also tankers role and tactical transport . it will be easy for maintain . now a days we have cocktail whatever we find we induct it .

It's is an tactical airlift. You can transport large number of tactical hardware to hot spot or even military build up. Y-20 can rapidly transport your Cobras gunship a thousand away. You don't expect your gunship to fly a thousand km by itself, do you? That is something C-130 Hercules can't do it when compare to Y-20.

but it can carry 200 camels and 350 goats for us in urgent situation

 

[fatman17]

C130 support transport at Anatolian Eagle, 16

 

[fatman17]

Just a nice picture

 

[hassan1]

 

[hassan1]

RIAT 2016