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Pak exchanged N-tech for N Korean long range missiles: US

But so far we have shown that it is by no means settled that Pakistan assisted NK as a matter of state policy.

In fact most of the evidence indicates that AQ acted alone in proliferating to Iran, Libya and NK.

So you were saying?
:rolleyes:

So person who is heading your nuclear arms managed to get missile technology for nuclear technology and GOP doesn't even know about it? He couldn't even leave the country without persident's permision and some how managed to trade containers of shipments without even tipping any body off? I remembers seeing Benezir's interview on CNN and she was saying that PAF's transpost aircraft was in NK and president didn't even know about it? It was hard to diggest that Khan acted alone.
 
one thing i dont understand, why everybody think that whatever us media (jews controled) or an american says is the truth, we shouldnt even consider it discussing.
for instance, if us media start say something about india or any other country, would we accept it as a true stroy. have they ever discuss or print anything for israel.
just use the brain???????
 
:rolleyes:

So person who is heading your nuclear arms managed to get missile technology for nuclear technology and GOP doesn't even know about it? He couldn't even leave the country without persident's permision and some how managed to trade containers of shipments without even tipping any body off? I remembers seeing Benezir's interview on CNN and she was saying that PAF's transpost aircraft was in NK and president didn't even know about it? It was hard to diggest that Khan acted alone.

Read and respond to post #66 instead of giving me hyperbole reiterating the exact thing post 66 debunked.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-mi...rean-long-range-missiles-us-5.html#post392508
 
Dude you still haven't provided me a link to the book.

Oh sorry, forgot about your request.

The book is called Shopping for Bombs: Nuclear Proliferation, Global Insecurity, and the Rise and Fall of the A.Q. Khan Network, by Gordon Corera.

I have a copy, but you can also purchase it on Amazon.
 
But so far we have shown that it is by no means settled that Pakistan assisted NK as a matter of state policy.

In fact most of the evidence indicates that AQ acted alone in proliferating to Iran, Libya and NK.

But AQ Khan's own statemnt have certainly put Pakistan's non - proliferating credentials under serious doubts.

The scientist who had confessed to being involved in the illegal transfer of nuclear technology to some country in 2004 later said that he had been pressurised to make the confession and that he had been made scapegoat at that time.

“It was a North Korean plane and the army had complete knowledge about it and the equipment,” Dr Khan said.

“It must have gone with his (Musharraf’s) consent.”

When asked why had he taken the sole responsibility for the nuclear proliferation, Dr Khan said he had been persuaded to do so by friends, including PML-Q chief Chaudhry Shujjat Hussain, a key figure in the ruling party at the time.

Dr Khan said the army had “complete knowledge” of the shipment of used P-1 centrifuges to North Korea and that it must have been sent with the consent of Musharraf, who was the army chief and president.

This coupled with Pakistan refusal to participate in any interrogation gives enough proof of state sponsorship.

AFA motive is concerned, getting hold of functional missiles can be one major reason. Shaheen was still not fully ready additionally NK always had ties with communist brother China, a all seasons friend of Pakistan.

Money can be another reason.
 
It is quite logical that any transfer of such sensitive material must have some sort of state sponsorship and moreover army sponsorship. The army maintains a very tight control over the nuclear and missile complexes and facilities and I find it highly improbable that AQ Khan could transfer even toilet paper without somebody in the chain of command noticing.
The North Korean transfer was a barter, It would be foolish to deny that. however the Iranian and Libyan transfers were motivated by a mix of financial gains and misguided pan Islamic dreams. Financially the money made from the transfers would have provided additional funding for KRL as it was competing for funds with PAEC and NDC. There is no doubt that in this transfer quite a few army officers were involved some of which might be quite senior which is why Musharraf made AQK the media scapegoat. Their motivation might be anything from financial gains as middlemen to helping fellow Muslims ala General Hameed Gul.
So.. did Pakistan assist in nuclear proliferation?
Am I responsible for condescending to nuclear proliferation?
The answer to the first is a yes and a no, since the proliferation was carried out by state actors but its was done without the knowledge of the state machinery itself. Ipso facto while there were dirty hands in the army and the scientific community of Pakistan; their acts went unnoticed by most of the ruling machinery. As to the fact that how is it possible considering all the control on the sensitive establishments and the ISI's strict check on them.
that is a mystery the doors of the ISI hold..or maybe it isn't. ;)

Now.. whether I or the general Pakistani should feel embarrassed about us being involved in nuclear proliferation. The North Korean deal is nothing to be embarrassed about, It was a national crises. We needed a launch platform urgently and if this was the way to get it. so be it. the Chinese could not be involved as they refused to be implicated in this matter, however there was another pariah in the international scene who was willing to offer us a missile in return for nuclear enrichment technology. The deal was set up and in a certain freighter missile components arrived at Karachi port.The same way centrifuges "Magically" disappeared from KRL premises and landed in North Korea.
The Libyan and Iranian transfers are another matter, These we based on monetary gains and could have resulted in a severe imbalance of power even nuclear war in the middle east. To those who assume this confrontation to be between Arab nations and Israel they are sorely mistaken. The confrontation over this matter would have been amongst Muslim nations themselves.
It is a sad episode that our hard earned nuclear power would be distributed like cotton candy to anyone who offered money. An unforgivable sin for those involved in it and a stain on Pakistan's already shaky reputation.
Something that has cost us dearly that whenever we order any component that has any relation to the defense industry it is usually banned so we cannot order it again.
 
But AQ Khan's own statemnt have certainly put Pakistan's non - proliferating credentials under serious doubts.
His statement vs those of all the other officials interviewed by Gordon Corera - the head of security, former COAS Alsam Beg (who himself was considered an Islamist), COAS Musharraf - and his own confession.

His word (after contradicting himself) against all of that evidence - I don't see how you can consider that credible evidence. As a criminal (and given how manipulative we now know he was) it is to be expected that he would try and weasel his way out of the situation he finds himself in, and salvage his reputation.
This coupled with Pakistan refusal to participate in any interrogation gives enough proof of state sponsorship.
This was addressed a long time ago - no country in the world is going to give another nation access to one if its top scientists - someone who probably knows more about Pakistan's classified programs than any other individual.

Pakistan has offered to interrogate him on behalf of other nations, if they wish to submit the questions they need answered, but to suggest that another nation be given access to him is just absurd.

So this is extremely flawed reasoning to try and show Pakistani guilt in proliferation.

AFA motive is concerned, getting hold of functional missiles can be one major reason. Shaheen was still not fully ready additionally NK always had ties with communist brother China, a all seasons friend of Pakistan.

Money can be another reason.

Some analysts have suggested that Pakistan already had an existing stockpile of of M-11 Chinese missiles - so obtaining functional missiles does not seem to be a credible enough argument.

Other analysts have pointed to the tension and rivalry between KRl (AQ Khan) and the PAEC/NESCOM. Khan took all the laurels whereas it was the PAEC that carried out the development of the bomb designs and carried out the tests.

These analysts suggest that Khan's deal with NK to get missile technology was an attempt to 'one-up' the PAEC/NESCOM.

I believe Corera has outlined very well the lack of controls on the Pakistani nuclear program, especially in terms of AQ Khan's network, and all of that suggests that Khan did act on his own - though obviously its something that would be impossible to prove a hundred percent.
 
It is quite logical that any transfer of such sensitive material must have some sort of state sponsorship and moreover army sponsorship.

Its not automatically logical at all - please read post 66.
 
The North Korean transfer was authorized and had state approval. KRL may have dealt on its own but the knowledge of the missile procurement was known to the Pakistan Army and senior government officials. As AQ had offered his missile stating that it could be operational earlier. So that does imply state consent to the deal. However I wont put up the argument as I cannot state my source with verification.
 

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