P-8A’s Acoustic Sensor System Twice as Effective as the P-3’s

[21 Dec 2012]

Nah, the choice not to use MAD is a choice for flying at altitude, which in turn translate to better range (but most importantly, optimal use of other - non ASW - sensors.

Won't clouds affect some of the sensors up there?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Nah, the choice not to use MAD is a choice for flying at altitude, which in turn translate to better range (but most importantly, optimal use of other - non ASW - sensors.

Right, it is a question of doctrine- the IN's doctrine diverged from the USN's in this respect.


A lot of discussion I have seen around the UK's future MPA seems to validate the IN's decision.

 

[Penguin]

Won't clouds affect some of the sensors up there?

Like radar?

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Like radar?

TV, IR and that Hydro-Carbon thingy said by the Miss? I'm not sure about the radar.

 

[Fenrir]

TV

This isn't my strong suit, but I'm going to try my best.

Sure, electro-optical sensors will be obscured by clouds, but that's why there are other sensors such as radar, which isn't.

How clouds effect EO:

Unit 3. Atmospheric Effects on Electro-optics

IR

Clouds will have an impact on IR signatures, since clouds themselves are good at absorbing and emitting thermal energy, but the fidelity of modern IR systems is significant enough to filter these natural sources of IR signatures - similar to how IR missiles track an aircraft dropping flares rather than the flare itself and how they don't track the sun (anymore, the early AIM-9 had a problem with this).

These sensors aren't perfect though, and clouds do disrupt IR signatures - your ability to detect surface or subsurface traffic depends on atmospheric conditions and your height. Go too high and you'll see the cloud, but nothing underneath it:

A bit of info on how clouds act as IR reflectors.

Clouds & Radiation Fact Sheet : Feature Articles

Hydro-Carbon

Depends on the part-per-million count, but typically clouds aren't made of diesel fuel, so their PPM ratios are generally low enough that hydro-carbon detectors aren't tripped up by them. The Earth's atmosphere has a lot of hydro-carbons in it, but not all of those match what is use on DE submarines, MPA crews are trained to ascertain specific signatures and discard others (the same way they are trained not to respond to natural EM disturbances such as wildlife or underwater volcanoes).

About natural EM signatures:

So you want to detect a submarine?

There's a reason more than one type of sensor is used on the P-8. Remote sensing - sensors capable of peering through obstructions like clouds, smoke or even Earth (as noted on ground penetrating radar), supplement other, non-penetrating sensors to make for a complete package.

Other options - remote sensing:

Principles of Remote Sensing - Centre for Remote Imaging, Sensing and Processing, CRISP

it's also worth noting that the higher one goes, the less effective MAD detection becomes, thus the P-8I and P-8A need other sensors if they wish to remain "off-the-deck"

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Sure, electro-optical sensors will be obscured by clouds, but that's why there are other sensors such as radar, which isn't.

Unit 3. Atmospheric Effects on Electro-optics



Clouds will have an impact on IR signatures, since clouds themselves are good at absorbing and emitting thermal energy, the fidelity of modern IR signatures is significant enough to filter this natural source of IR though - similar to how IR missiles track an aircraft dropping flairs and how they don't track the sun (anymore, the early AIM-9 had a problem with this).

Clouds & Radiation Fact Sheet : Feature Articles



Depends on the part-per-million count, but typically clouds aren't made of diesel fuel, so their PPM ratios tends to be low enough that hydro-carbon detectors aren't tripped up by them. The Earth's atmosphere has a lot of hydro-carbons in it, but not all of those match what is use on DE submarines, MPA crews are trained to ascertain specific signatures and discard others (the same way they are trained not to response to natural EM disturbances such as wildlife or underwater volcanoes).

So you want to detect a submarine?

There's a reason more than one type of sensor is used on the P-8. Remote sensing - sensors capable of peering through obstructions like clouds, smoke or even Earth (as noted on ground penetrating radar), supplement other, non-penetrating sensors to make for a complete package.

Principles of Remote Sensing - Centre for Remote Imaging, Sensing and Processing, CRISP

it's also worth noting that the higher one goes, the less effective MAD detection becomes, thus the P-8I and P-8A need other sensors if they wish to remain "off-the-deck"

All-right then. Nothing to disagree with. Not that I would try even if lol.

 

[Penguin]

it's also worth noting that the higher one goes, the less effective MAD detection becomes, thus the P-8I and P-8A need other sensors if they wish to remain "off-the-deck"

Exactly. Using MAD mean you go really low down to the deck (300 ft or so). WHich is why I like the idea of a small MAD equipped drone: it can go don while your plane stays up, and you could likely launch several at the same time against different potential targets (try that with a MAD boom on your aircraft: impossible)