Myths about the Taliban

[Khan_patriot]

In light of the recent attempts by the Pakistani government to solve the dissent with the Therik-e-Taliban Pakistan
(TTP) by negotiating with them several myths about the faction have reemerged both in popular media as well as among TTP apologists.Some of these myths are unfortunately believed by some ''enlightened individuals'' as well so I try a humble attempt to debunk the most commonly believed ones....

• Pakistan, specifically ISI created the Taliban against the Russians: This is probably the most oft repeated myth about the Taliban, admittedly Pakistan along with the US supported the Afghan Mujahideen during the war with the Soviets, both the US and Pakistan never supported the Taliban during the war, because they had yet to come into existence. After the Soviet defeat there were two major factions of Mujahideen, one was Hekmatyar's faction and the other was Ahmad Masoodi's , both were competing for Kabul, after Masoodi succeeded in taking Kabul the Taliban emerged against him and ultimately drove him out of the city, this account is repeated in several books on the topic. In the book ''Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia'' the writer writes: "A handful of Taliban had fought the Soviet Red Army in the 1980s... the vast majority had never fought the communists and were young students.....''
• There were no terrorist or sectarian incidents before 9/11: This is one myth I would love to believe, unfortunately I no longer do, the truth is Pakistan was suffering from sectarian as well as terrorist incidents since the 80's and 90's, for example:
  1990: The Iranian Counsel General in Lahore, Sadeq Ganji, was assassinated.
  1994: 15 persons are killed and 17 others injured as Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) cadres and security forces clash in the NWFP region.
  1996: A suicide bomber drives a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons.
  1998:Members of the Baluchistan Students Federation (BSF) hijack a Pakistan International Airlines aircraft and attempt to land in India.
  The list of terrorist incidents continues but some of the major ones have been highlighted, note that the terror incidents picked up pace during the Zia rule.
• The TTP has a genuine interest in peace talks: This is one myth I would have liked to be debunked when the Taliban broke their first negotiated deals unfortunately it still survives. There have been several deals with the TTP from 2004 to 2009 and all have unanimously resulted with the TTP spreading its influence to adjoining areas, further strengthening and rearming of militants, ultimately the terms of negotiations were broken and the peace deals ended.
• TTP will stop pursuing its agenda if peace talks succeed: This could not be further from the truth, all the commanders of TTP from Bait Ullah to Fazal Ullah have claimed in several videos that they will establish a Caliphate in Pakistan and will not stop until they achieve their ''divine mission'', it also supports the conclusion that the TTP will never stop and will use any negotiated peace to regroup, rearm and resupply so they can wage another campaign of terror in the country.
• A military operation has lasted a decade without results: This one is particularly very popular among the pro-militant masses as well as some politicians. This is also one myth that must be debunked. What its believers need to realize is that the Pakistan Army is one of the most professional, battle hardened and tested armies in the world, some rag tag group of militants can never hold its own against it during an all out assault. It has proven itself on several occasions, the most exemplary operation was in Swat and adjoining areas. 4 agencies of FATA have also been cleared by the army while not costing any casualties that were not expected.
• Drones are responsible for TTP recruiting the youth of the tribal areas: This may be true for some men joining the ranks of the Taliban but it certainly does not account for all of them. If one considers relatives being murdered as a major cause of Taliban recruitment then common sense dictates that there must also be strong anti-Taliban sentiments among the group of the population whose relatives have been killed and executed by the Taliban, now surveys show that 10 times more people have been killed by the Taliban than those killed by all the drones combined. According to estimates there are 30-35000 TTP operatives so one can assume that over 300,000 anti-Taliban people, whose relatives have been killed by the Taliban reside in the tribal areas as well.
• TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon: This one is also popular not necessarily among the terror sympathizers but among some mypoic leaders, and some racist individuals, the conflict being painted along ethnic lines is the last thing that the country needs, it will be disastrous for the war effort that is certain to start anyday.
• Here I have tried to debunk some of the most common myth believed by TTP sympathizers to be true. There are some other beliefs as well but they are not as common or cant be debunked with the use of logic and evidence.​

What are your thoughts:
@EyanKhan @batmannow @waz @Armstrong @Talon @Hyperion @Alpha1 @A.Rafay

 

[waz]

In light of the recent attempts by the Pakistani government to solve the dissent with the Therik-e-Taliban Pakistan
(TTP) by negotiating with them several myths about the faction have reemerged both in popular media as well as among TTP apologists.Some of these myths are unfortunately believed by some ''enlightened individuals'' as well so I try a humble attempt to debunk the most commonly believed ones....

• Pakistan, specifically ISI created the Taliban against the Russians: This is probably the most oft repeated myth about the Taliban, admittedly Pakistan along with the US supported the Afghan Mujahideen during the war with the Soviets, both the US and Pakistan never supported the Taliban during the war, because they had yet to come into existence. After the Soviet defeat there were two major factions of Mujahideen, one was Hekmatyar's faction and the other was Ahmad Masoodi's , both were competing for Kabul, after Masoodi succeeded in taking Kabul the Taliban emerged against him and ultimately drove him out of the city, this account is repeated in several books on the topic. In the book ''Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia'' the writer writes: "A handful of Taliban had fought the Soviet Red Army in the 1980s... the vast majority had never fought the communists and were young students.....''
• There were no terrorist or sectarian incidents before 9/11: This is one myth I would love to believe, unfortunately I no longer do, the truth is Pakistan was suffering from sectarian as well as terrorist incidents since the 80's and 90's, for example:
  1990: The Iranian Counsel General in Lahore, Sadeq Ganji, was assassinated.
  1994: 15 persons are killed and 17 others injured as Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) cadres and security forces clash in the NWFP region.
  1996: A suicide bomber drives a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons.
  1998:Members of the Baluchistan Students Federation (BSF) hijack a Pakistan International Airlines aircraft and attempt to land in India.
  The list of terrorist incidents continues but some of the major ones have been highlighted, note that the terror incidents picked up pace during the Zia rule.
• The TTP has a genuine interest in peace talks: This is one myth I would have liked to be debunked when the Taliban broke their first negotiated deals unfortunately it still survives. There have been several deals with the TTP from 2004 to 2009 and all have unanimously resulted with the TTP spreading its influence to adjoining areas, further strengthening and rearming of militants, ultimately the terms of negotiations were broken and the peace deals ended.
• TTP will stop pursuing its agenda if peace talks succeed: This could not be further from the truth, all the commanders of TTP from Bait Ullah to Fazal Ullah have claimed in several videos that they will establish a Caliphate in Pakistan and will not stop until they achieve their ''divine mission'', it also supports the conclusion that the TTP will never stop and will use any negotiated peace to regroup, rearm and resupply so they can wage another campaign of terror in the country.
• A military operation has lasted a decade without results: This one is particularly very popular among the pro-militant masses as well as some politicians. This is also one myth that must be debunked. What its believers need to realize is that the Pakistan Army is one of the most professional, battle hardened and tested armies in the world, some rag tag group of militants can never hold its own against it during an all out assault. It has proven itself on several occasions, the most exemplary operation was in Swat and adjoining areas. 4 agencies of FATA have also been cleared by the army while not costing any casualties that were not expected.
• Drones are responsible for TTP recruiting the youth of the tribal areas: This may be true for some men joining the ranks of the Taliban but it certainly does not account for all of them. If one considers relatives being murdered as a major cause of Taliban recruitment then common sense dictates that there must also be strong anti-Taliban sentiments among the group of the population whose relatives have been killed and executed by the Taliban, now surveys show that 10 times more people have been killed by the Taliban than those killed by all the drones combined. According to estimates there are 30-35000 TTP operatives so one can assume that over 300,000 anti-Taliban people, whose relatives have been killed by the Taliban reside in the tribal areas as well.
• TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon: This one is also popular not necessarily among the terror sympathizers but among some mypoic leaders, and some racist individuals, the conflict being painted along ethnic lines is the last thing that the country needs, it will be disastrous for the war effort that is certain to start anyday.
• Here I have tried to debunk some of the most common myth believed by TTP sympathizers to be true. There are some other beliefs as well but they are not as common or cant be debunked with the use of logic and evidence.​

What are your thoughts:
@EyanKhan @batmannow @waz @Armstrong @Talon @Hyperion @Alpha1 @A.Rafay

Spot on brother. I have to commend you first for an excellent post and I loved the whole "busting the myth" facts. Many of our people simply do not understand or want to understand that the present TTP led insurgency has been in the making for the past 30 years. It stated off as a type of benign cancer that had its growth accelerated by certain events. It's nonsense to suggest that recent events e.g. 9/11 immediately kicked off the orgy of violence. Small, low level militant violence has always been there, especially with the advent of thousands of foreign fighters who settled in FATA and the spreading of a more virulent, extreme form of Dawah,which was at odds against the traditional Sufi Islam practiced by the masses. This sadly laid down the seeds of rebellion for the future and if conflict erupted then no problem as to them they are following the truth, in a sea of ignorance.

 

[EyanKhan]

 

[Aamna14]

I agree with most of it however, the issue of drones isn't an isolated or sporadic one. The claim isn't that drones alone create talibans or new recruits but the pretext under which these talibans function is potent enough to attract most and not merely the tribals. The divide among the nation merely exists because of the religious pretext with which they arm themselves and drones are another element that further strengthens their narrative. Anyways, Very nice post.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Fazlur rehman and sami ul haq are fathers of TTP.While ISI is mother of TTP. ISI has important role in shaping and maintaining Taliban of Afghanistan. To assist taliban , thousands of madrassa students in Pakistan were sent by ISI against northren alliance...all hail to hameed gul and col.imam....among these pakistani madrassa students, were included nek mohammad, baitullah mehsud, hafiz gul bahadur, maulvi nazir etc....they fought in afghanistan for taliban....afghanistan become like a watan to them, they were enraged when their mom ISI/Army betrayed them and their taliban brothers in 2001. Still they kept quiet untill 2004 when army stepped on their tails.

 

[syedali73]

Fazlur rehman and sami ul haq are fathers of TTP.While ISI is mother of TTP. ISI has important role in shaping and maintaining Taliban of Afghanistan. To assist taliban , thousands of madrassa students in Pakistan were sent by ISI against northren alliance...all hail to hameed gul and col.imam....among these pakistani madrassa students, were included nek mohammad, baitullah mehsud, hafiz gul bahadur, maulvi nazir etc....they fought in afghanistan for taliban....afghanistan become like a watan to them, they were enraged when their mom ISI/Army betrayed them and their taliban brothers in 2001. Still they kept quiet untill 2004 when army stepped on their tails.

@Khan_patriot: My friend, you got a good post up there. To your already comprehensive list of myths, I would like to add one more myth:

ISI/PA betrayed Taliban.

It is one of those guesses (or disinformation) that is repeated so often that it got a status of fact. However, the fact of the matter is, in the wake of 9/11 and upon Bush administration's demand of handing OBL over to them, the GoP and ISI did try their best cajoling Taliban to alienate themselves from Al-Qaida elements. Several high ranking Pakistani officials visited Kabul to convince Mullah Omar but he and his shoorah refused to budge. Taliban asked for proof of OBL involvement in 9/11, which was a legitimate demand. However, US was infuriated, and unwilling to pay heed to this pretty logical request. A middle-of-the-way solution could have been to hand over OBL to the UN, and let him prove his innocence in the International Court of Justice. At any rate, Taliban refused to handover OBL to US (or UN for that matter), and vouched to fight against the invading coalition forces alongside Al-Qaida elements. In that scenario, it was simply not possible for Pakistan to take side with Taliban, nor could she stayed neutral given the US enragement, and UN resolutions. Pakistan tried to diffuse the situation, and that is all she could do given the circumstances. Pakistan did not abandon Taliban, but Taliban abandoned Pakistan by not listening to Pakistan and the international community.

Now regarding Afghanistan become like a watan for taliban sort of sentiments, Afghanistan was their watan, because an overwhelming majority of Taliban was (still is) Afghan, not Pakistani. Now they can enrage for whatever reason (in fact their entire history is full of enragement and beheading of each other, so what is new?) but Pakistan is a member of the UN, and has to fulfill her duties as a member state. For the fear of Taliban enragement, Pakistan cant become Imarat Islami Afghanistan and get itself destroyed in the process.

One more thing I would like to add regarding the last myth - TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon. While TTP (alias JI/JUI) terrorists come is all colors, shapes, and flavors, an overwhelming majority of TTP terrorists and particularly its top leadership is of Pashtoon origin. The type of shariah (which is nothing but a cover) they talk about is also a religious manifestation of Afghan Pashtoon tribal way-of-life, where women live slave-like life, and modern education is considered interference in culture and religion. So, even though TTP (alias JI/JUI) is not 100% pashtoon phenomenon 95% it is, or in other words, most Pashtoon are not Taliban, but a but a majority of Taliban is Pashtoon.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

^Taliban is a deobandi religous phenomena.....

 

[EyanKhan]

This idiot just proved how big liar he is just count the number of incidents which were done before 2003 and after 2007 when we first time heard about TTP and TTP was not even there these were done by different other organisations and most of them were sitting in cities not Tribal areas

Please enlighten us who these groups were , they were the small groups who now are a part of the TTP.

 

[Zarvan]

Please enlighten us who these groups were , they were the small groups who now are a part of the TTP.

No almost 95 % of TTP groups came are new guys they are only 5 % older ones

 

[batmannow]

This idiot just proved how big liar he is just count the number of incidents which were done before 2003 and after 2007 when we first time heard about TTP and TTP was not even there these were done by different other organisations and most of them were sitting in cities not Tribal areas

sectarin organization were the off springs of JAMMAT ISLAMI, it was JAMMAT e ISLAMI which went after AHMADIs , then every sect ?
librals like ZAB were forced to, accept the. JI version of islam, as the religion of state?
but, its a reality , JI used its political prapoganda, to bring SUFI MUHAMMAD, NAIK MUHAMMAD, fazullullha as the fighting muslim pakistani, BADAR E MUNNER STYLE into the main frame political stage?
MMA was & is fully responsible, of the creation of TTp!

 

[EyanKhan]

No almost 95 % of TTP groups came are new guys they are only 5 % older ones

You know a little too much about them , say have you been in contact with them??
Stop making numbers up

 

[batmannow]

You know a little too much about them , say have you been in contact with them??
Stop making numbers up

shouldnt take him like that, he is a master of twisting the facts, for the millitant islam?

 

[EyanKhan]

One more thing I would like to add regarding the last myth - TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon. While TTP (alias JI/JUI) terrorists come is all colors, shapes, and flavors, an overwhelming majority of TTP terrorists and particularly its top leadership is of Pashtoon origin. The type of shariah (which is nothing but a cover) they talk about is also a religious manifestation of pashtoon tribal way of life, where women live slave-like life, and modern education is considered interference in culture and religion. So, even though TTP (alias JI/JUI) is not 100% pashtoon phenomenon, but 98% it is.

it is a deobandi/salafi/wahibi phenomenon . this "Islamic Shariah" of the "Pakhtoons" that you talk of was not present in any day an age except this so why now then? Stop making crap up

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Racial and cultural traits of taliban are pashtun but their mindset and ideology is of deoband. It is open to any sunni muslim. Thats why you see arabs, chechens, uzbebs, tajiks, punjabis, kashmiris etc in their ranks.
If blame is on pashtuns for producing taliban movement, then entire deoband school of thought should also be blamed.
My questions for @syedali73 aka Mr.khomeni
1- The beheading practice in the videos, does arab and uzbeks of alqaida started it or it is a historic pashtun tradition?
2- Suicide bombings, arabs of alqaida introduced it into afg-pak and rest of the world or it was already a custom among pakhtuns since milinia?
3- Hijab was introduced by islam or pashtuns?....
4- lashes and stoning on zinna are hadood or they are pashtun cultural practices?

 

[Zarvan]

You know a little too much about them , say have you been in contact with them??
Stop making numbers up

Mr yes I have knowledge about them most of these guys are new around 95 & of them became Militants after 2007 and older ones than joined them mainly the older ones are Lashkar e Jhangvi and Sufi Muhammad Guys other than that all are news ones Sipah e Mohammad is still sitting in major cities before 2007 blunder of Lal Masjid all these main organisations were sitting in cities we knew who they were and it was easy to get them and their many leaders were also thrown in Jails but thanks to Musharraf betrayal of Afghans and gave final blow with Lal Masjid operation TTP came into existence and every organisation tried to join them