Mirage Update

[fatman17]

http://www8.janes.com

is there a update on this...are the mirages cannabalised for spares/engines or have been upgraded to ROSE standard and put in service....eg: the NEW ZARRARS sqdn?. has it been raised from the libyan mirages?
JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - JULY 14, 2004

Pakistan to acquire Libyan Mirages

Ayesha Siddiqa JDW Correspondent
Islamabad

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has finalised a deal with the Libyan Air Force for the purchase of some 40 Mirage interceptor/ground attack aircraft, confirmed Director Public Relations (PAF) Air Cdre Sarfaraz Khan on 5 July.

The aircraft are understood to be part of the Libyan Air Force's fleet of 50 Mirage 5D/DEs that have been grounded for more than a decade. The deal was finalised in June and shipment started that month. It is hoped that the transfer would be complete by September 2004. "The deal has been finalised; the shipment has started," Air Cdre Khan said.

The PAF plans to cannibalise the Libyan aircraft for use as spares in its existing fleet of Mirage aircraft. PAF sources were reluctant to disclose the value of the contract, despite the fact that earlier Mirage deals, which were alleged to be financially controversial, necessitated that this transfer be more transparent. The reluctance to disclose the detail could also be attributed to the fact that the deal was signed without prior clearance from Mirage manufacturer Dassault. However, Air Cdre Khan claimed that this would not be a problem because Dassault did not have any legal restriction on the supply of spares to the PAF.

The PAF hopes the deal will secure the future of its Mirage fleet. Despite senior PAF officials' worries about the age of the Mirage fleet, the upgrade represents the key option to stop the service from losing further capabilities. Islamabad has been desperate to increase both the quantity and quality of aircraft to counter the modernisation plans of its rival India, which seems to be making advances in weapons acquisitions. While there is a plan to replace the Mirages with the JF-17 Thunder, the new multirole aircraft being jointly developed and produced with China, PAF chiefs are anxious to acquire a quality Western aircraft.

According to a PAF source, Chief of Air Staff ACM Kalim Sadaat is desperate to fill the gap created by the unavailability of US F-16s that the PAF had hoped to acquire in the 1980s. Given India's acquisition of Su-30MKIs from Russia and Hawk 115Y advanced jet trainers from the UK, Islamabad is keen to acquire between 40 and 60 fourth-generation fighter aircraft.

The PAF is understood to be have been interested in a number of options, including the Swedish Gripen, French Mirage 2000-5/9 and Chinese J-10s. However, the Gripen option may be a non-starter. Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds, following talks with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm on 6 July, said that Sweden would not sell "weapons or anything directly related to weapons" to Pakistan.

These Western aircraft would not replace any existing aircraft in the PAF's inventory, but provide an additional qualitative edge that appears to be diminishing as the service finds it difficult to replace the F-16s, said PAF sources.

 

[fatman17]

AFM June issue states....

Libyan Mirages in Use for Pakistan AF Spares:
Former Libyan Arab Republic Air Force Dassault Mirage 5DR still in their libyan colours are seen on April 21 at the PAC Kamra facility in Pakistan, where they are being cannibilised for spares to keep the active PAF fleet operational. The PAF has acquired second-hand Mirages from a variety of sources over the years including a batch of 50 from Libya during 2004-05, some of which are in PAF service, with others to follow, whilst the remainder are being used as spares.

 

[IceCold]

AFM June issue states....

Libyan Mirages in Use for Pakistan AF Spares:
Former Libyan Arab Republic Air Force Dassault Mirage 5DR still in their libyan colours are seen on April 21 at the PAC Kamra facility in Pakistan, where they are being cannibilised for spares to keep the active PAF fleet operational. The PAF has acquired second-hand Mirages from a variety of sources over the years including a batch of 50 from Libya during 2004-05, some of which are in PAF service, with others to follow, whilst the remainder are being used as spares.

Sir i once read that despite of sealed packed engines being bought from libya, and other spares, it was still very hard for the PAF to keep these birds flying due to the declining air frames, and that is why we have a much higher loss of mirages as compared to any other jet. Dont you think these spares were a waiste of valuable resources and instead mirages should now be grounded.

 

[vish]

Sir i once read that despite of sealed packed engines being bought from libya, and other spares, it was still very hard for the PAF to keep these birds flying due to the declining air frames, and that is why we have a much higher loss of mirages as compared to any other jet. Dont you think these spares were a waiste of valuable resources and instead mirages should now be grounded.

If I'm not wrong, Mirage is one of PAF's best strike aircrafts. There is a squadron or so of Mirages which serve as the PAF's maritime strike aircraft.

I don't think grounding these birds would be a good idea; unless PAF has a contingency plan in place or is looking for a new aircraft.

 

[IceCold]

If I'm not wrong, Mirage is one of PAF's best strike aircrafts. There is a squadron or so of Mirages which serve as the PAF's maritime strike aircraft.

I don't think grounding these birds would be a good idea; unless PAF has a contingency plan in place or is looking for a new aircraft.

They are not the best of the options but certainly the option however, it is really hard to keep those jets in the skyies.

 

[blain2]

Sir i once read that despite of sealed packed engines being bought from libya, and other spares, it was still very hard for the PAF to keep these birds flying due to the declining air frames, and that is why we have a much higher loss of mirages as compared to any other jet. Dont you think these spares were a waiste of valuable resources and instead mirages should now be grounded.

No I do not think so. The spares (which were dirt cheap) help in maintaining the fleet to remain air worthy. The aircraft is indeed aging but PAF really likes the FLIR equipped Mirages (better day/night strike capability than anything else in the PAF service currently). Its a very credible capability in the PAF and until JF-17s arrive, PAF will soldier on with the type.

 

[Muradk]

a few Mirages we took from LIB

 

[fatman17]

my key question was where did the mirages for 27th squadron come from - i dont have an answer but i can bet my bottom $ that they are ex-libyan mirages upgraded in-house at PAC Kamra.

 

[fatman17]

Sir i once read that despite of sealed packed engines being bought from libya, and other spares, it was still very hard for the PAF to keep these birds flying due to the declining air frames, and that is why we have a much higher loss of mirages as compared to any other jet. Dont you think these spares were a waiste of valuable resources and instead mirages should now be grounded.

according to my info these are fairly new airframes because from 1994-2004 they were grounded in libya due to lack of spares and maintenence (read sanctions). yes, in what state they were grounded i dont have that information.