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Manufacturing vs IT : Which one is better for the economy/country?

Manufacturing vs IT : Which one is better for the economy/country?

  • Manufacturing

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • IT

    Votes: 4 33.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Reddington

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Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
1,053
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Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Came across this following article a few days ago. The article is almost 1.5 years old but still relevant today. It shows the contrasting style of governance and economy between China and the US/West. US focuses on IT/Services while for China "manufacturing" trumps everything.

Here is the article.

China Wants Manufacturing—Not the Internet—to Lead the Economy

Even as Beijing unleashes a regulatory assault against tech companies, it continues to shower subsidies and protection on manufacturers​




afda3f0f7ff0fec1d8ee912d91ecb6cac19e24c0.jpg

Chinese President Xi Jinping, center, during an April visit to a machinery manufacturer.​


To Western investors, China’s regulatory crackdown on superstar companies such as Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. , Tencent Holdings Ltd. and Didi Global Inc. must seem suicidal. How better to undercut growth than to kneecap some of the world’s most successful technology companies?

President Xi Jinping would beg to differ. In his estimation, technology comes in two varieties: nice to have, and need to have. Social media, e-commerce and other consumer internet companies are nice to have, but in his view national greatness doesn’t depend on having the world’s finest group chats or ride-sharing.

By contrast, Mr. Xi thinks the country needs to have state-of-the-art semiconductors, electric-car batteries, commercial aircraft and telecommunications equipment to retain China’s manufacturing prowess, avoid deindustrialization and achieve autonomy from foreign suppliers. So even as the Chinese Communist Party unleashes a multifront regulatory assault against consumer internet companies, it continues to shower subsidies, protection and “buy-Chinese” mandates on manufacturers.

Mr. Xi described these differential priorities in a speech published by the party journal Qiushi last year. He acknowledged the online economy was flourishing, and said China “must accelerate construction of the digital economy, digital society and digital government,” according to a translation by Georgetown University-affiliated researchers. “At the same time, it must be recognized that the real economy is the foundation, and the various manufacturing industries cannot be abandoned.”

Historically, as most countries develop, manufacturing displaces agriculture and then services displace manufacturing. In recent decades manufacturing’s share of gross domestic product in most-advanced economies has declined, especially in the U.S. and Britain, which have seen swaths of factory employment migrate overseas, especially to China.

While manufacturing’s share of Chinese GDP has declined, at 26% it remains the highest of any major economy, and the Chinese government wants it to stay there—in effect insisting that China not follow others down the path of deindustrialization.
“It cannot be like the U.K., which is so successful in the sounding-clever industries—television, journalism, finance, and universities—while seeing a falling share of R&D intensity and a global loss of standing among its largest firms,” Dan Wang, a technology analyst at China-focused research service Gavekal Dragonomics, wrote earlier this year.

Politicians world-wide tend to fetishize manufacturing; investors don’t. Most manufacturing is fiercely competitive and requires enormous amounts of capital and labor, all of which weighs on profits. By contrast, a consumer internet company with a dominant platform can generate boatloads of cash with minimal incremental investment. That is why Facebook Inc. is worth 11 times as much as semiconductor manufacturer Micron Technology Inc. though Facebook employs only 50% more people. It is why in February, before the recent selloff, Alibaba, affiliate of online finance giant Ant Group, was worth 20 times as much as Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. , the heavily subsidized “national champion” of China’s chip sector.

But in the view of Chinese leaders, consumer internet companies inflict costs on society that aren’t reflected in private market values. Companies such as Ant threaten the stability of the financial system, online education feeds social anxiety and online games such as Tencent’s represent an “opium for the mind,” as one state-owned publication put it this week.

Conversely, Chinese leaders think manufacturing confers social benefits that market values don’t reflect. For decades, it has been how the country created jobs, raised productivity and disseminated essential skills and know-how. Now, to achieve parity with the West, they think China must be able to make the most advanced technology, and will use subsidies, protectionism and forced technology transfers to achieve that.

American leaders can sympathize: They, too, worry that big tech suffocates competition, violates privacy, propagates misinformation and encourages online addiction. They are ready to emulate China in their readiness to subsidize manufacturers seen as essential to national security. But in the U.S., the government takes a back seat to private markets in allocating capital. In China, it’s the reverse.

This doesn’t mean China is right. Allocating capital to industries deemed necessary for national development yielded big returns when the economy still had plenty of catching up to do. As China has caught up, returns have plummeted and Chinese industries are often awash with excess capacity and debt. Moreover, China’s domestic market can’t absorb everything its factories churn out; the surplus must be exported. To maintain such a large manufacturing share of GDP, China in effect compels other countries to accept a smaller share, perpetuating trade friction.

Yet whether the Communist Party’s priorities make sense in the long run, the recent turmoil in Chinese shares shows they can make or break a company’s future in the short run. “The state runs capitalism to serve the interests of most people,” Ray Dalio, founder of the hedge fund Bridgewater Associates, wrote last week. “Capitalists have to understand their subordinate places in the system or they will suffer the consequences of their mistakes.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...t-the-internetto-lead-the-economy-11628078155
 
Manufacturing sectors will always generate opportunities for Service sector but it wont happen in reverse
 
You need both to cater to different sections of the society. Manufacturing for general population and services and IT for high skilled population.
 
Came across this following article a few days ago. The article is almost 1.5 years old but still relevant today. It shows the contrasting style of governance and economy between China and the US/West. US focuses on IT/Services while for China "manufacturing" trumps everything.

Here is the article.

China Wants Manufacturing—Not the Internet—to Lead the Economy

Even as Beijing unleashes a regulatory assault against tech companies, it continues to shower subsidies and protection on manufacturers​




afda3f0f7ff0fec1d8ee912d91ecb6cac19e24c0.jpg

Chinese President Xi Jinping, center, during an April visit to a machinery manufacturer.​


To Western investors, China’s regulatory crackdown on superstar companies such as Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. , Tencent Holdings Ltd. and Didi Global Inc. must seem suicidal. How better to undercut growth than to kneecap some of the world’s most successful technology companies?

President Xi Jinping would beg to differ. In his estimation, technology comes in two varieties: nice to have, and need to have. Social media, e-commerce and other consumer internet companies are nice to have, but in his view national greatness doesn’t depend on having the world’s finest group chats or ride-sharing.

By contrast, Mr. Xi thinks the country needs to have state-of-the-art semiconductors, electric-car batteries, commercial aircraft and telecommunications equipment to retain China’s manufacturing prowess, avoid deindustrialization and achieve autonomy from foreign suppliers. So even as the Chinese Communist Party unleashes a multifront regulatory assault against consumer internet companies, it continues to shower subsidies, protection and “buy-Chinese” mandates on manufacturers.

Mr. Xi described these differential priorities in a speech published by the party journal Qiushi last year. He acknowledged the online economy was flourishing, and said China “must accelerate construction of the digital economy, digital society and digital government,” according to a translation by Georgetown University-affiliated researchers. “At the same time, it must be recognized that the real economy is the foundation, and the various manufacturing industries cannot be abandoned.”

Historically, as most countries develop, manufacturing displaces agriculture and then services displace manufacturing. In recent decades manufacturing’s share of gross domestic product in most-advanced economies has declined, especially in the U.S. and Britain, which have seen swaths of factory employment migrate overseas, especially to China.

While manufacturing’s share of Chinese GDP has declined, at 26% it remains the highest of any major economy, and the Chinese government wants it to stay there—in effect insisting that China not follow others down the path of deindustrialization.
“It cannot be like the U.K., which is so successful in the sounding-clever industries—television, journalism, finance, and universities—while seeing a falling share of R&D intensity and a global loss of standing among its largest firms,” Dan Wang, a technology analyst at China-focused research service Gavekal Dragonomics, wrote earlier this year.

Politicians world-wide tend to fetishize manufacturing; investors don’t. Most manufacturing is fiercely competitive and requires enormous amounts of capital and labor, all of which weighs on profits. By contrast, a consumer internet company with a dominant platform can generate boatloads of cash with minimal incremental investment. That is why Facebook Inc. is worth 11 times as much as semiconductor manufacturer Micron Technology Inc. though Facebook employs only 50% more people. It is why in February, before the recent selloff, Alibaba, affiliate of online finance giant Ant Group, was worth 20 times as much as Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. , the heavily subsidized “national champion” of China’s chip sector.

But in the view of Chinese leaders, consumer internet companies inflict costs on society that aren’t reflected in private market values. Companies such as Ant threaten the stability of the financial system, online education feeds social anxiety and online games such as Tencent’s represent an “opium for the mind,” as one state-owned publication put it this week.

Conversely, Chinese leaders think manufacturing confers social benefits that market values don’t reflect. For decades, it has been how the country created jobs, raised productivity and disseminated essential skills and know-how. Now, to achieve parity with the West, they think China must be able to make the most advanced technology, and will use subsidies, protectionism and forced technology transfers to achieve that.

American leaders can sympathize: They, too, worry that big tech suffocates competition, violates privacy, propagates misinformation and encourages online addiction. They are ready to emulate China in their readiness to subsidize manufacturers seen as essential to national security. But in the U.S., the government takes a back seat to private markets in allocating capital. In China, it’s the reverse.

This doesn’t mean China is right. Allocating capital to industries deemed necessary for national development yielded big returns when the economy still had plenty of catching up to do. As China has caught up, returns have plummeted and Chinese industries are often awash with excess capacity and debt. Moreover, China’s domestic market can’t absorb everything its factories churn out; the surplus must be exported. To maintain such a large manufacturing share of GDP, China in effect compels other countries to accept a smaller share, perpetuating trade friction.

Yet whether the Communist Party’s priorities make sense in the long run, the recent turmoil in Chinese shares shows they can make or break a company’s future in the short run. “The state runs capitalism to serve the interests of most people,” Ray Dalio, founder of the hedge fund Bridgewater Associates, wrote last week. “Capitalists have to understand their subordinate places in the system or they will suffer the consequences of their mistakes.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...t-the-internetto-lead-the-economy-11628078155
So you think your IT is better than China?

Chinese IT: Tencent, Baidu, Alibaba, JD, Tiktok.........

you?
 
So you think your IT is better than China?

Chinese IT: Tencent, Baidu, Alibaba, JD, Tiktok.........

you?
back office accounting for Oracle and Microsoft mostly

but there's lots of web based startups doing a variety of things.. food delivery etc, nothing too mindblowing

even bhikari @jamahir can get a job delivering food for zomato etc
 
You are jealous of him. He is Operating System and microprocessor inventor. Not a techie producing crappy, bug filled codes like you.
actually spent a few days in Dharavi hardcore interior, with some firangs no less...

I have a slight idea about @jamahir style slum living, yeah
 
It is easier to get into IT - the $ spend to setup the infrastructure for IT is lower( good internet connectviity - and offices + educated people ) whereas manufacturing is expensive to setup - takes long time to build up an ecosystem of companies etc.

So - IT is a good kickstarter to the economy - but with a view to moving into manufacturing longterm.
 
Dont need to say it as manufacturing vs IT service, better manufacturing vs service

Good proportion is when manufacturing is at 23 % of GDP

manfr-gdp-3.gif

qPDHKcd__ussDfxjEyB6lRKovnKD9yjQ4vgoTjJnpLA.jpg
 
1678559241303.png


The decrease of Indonesia manufacturing is more due to the fall of textile industry. In the past Indonesia textile Industry is dominating US market and also inside Indonesia domestic market. After 2000 and China entered global market and joined WTO, China textile industry become the king. Beside that, the increase of service sector is also becoming the other reason of my country fall of manufacturing relative to GDP.

Compare to Bangladesh where their manufacturing sector mainly in textile industry. BD can compete with China and Vietnam textile industry and keep capturing global market. The high raise of BD manufacturing relative to its GDP also shows its service sector hasnt been quite developed yet (cannot accompany their manufacturing raise). Regardless of that, 21 percent is a decent proportion for any country.

1678559571535.png



ASEAN vs India vs Pakistan

1678560610511.png
 
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You need both to cater to different sections of the society. Manufacturing for general population and services and IT for high skilled population.

So you think your IT is better than China?

Chinese IT: Tencent, Baidu, Alibaba, JD, Tiktok.........

you?

So - IT is a good kickstarter to the economy - but with a view to moving into manufacturing longterm.

First you all tell me what is this "IT" and why does Indian code monkey company Infosys need to have 300,000+ workers to do whatever it is doing ?

back office accounting for Oracle and Microsoft mostly

but there's lots of web based startups doing a variety of things.. food delivery etc, nothing too mindblowing

even bhikari @jamahir can get a job delivering food for zomato etc

Ah, socio-economic oppression brought to you by Virus. How nice to see this to start the morning.

You are jealous of him. He is Operating System and microprocessor inventor. Not a techie producing crappy, bug filled codes like you.

Bug-filled codes is what the Indian companies HCL and Cyient wrote for Boeing's 737 Max plane and two of these planes crashed and killed 356 people. This is mass murder done by two Indian companies who have to taken to the International Criminal Court by the people close to those dead. Boeing also has to be taken to ICC for trying to "save" money like a haraami Indian middle classi just to continue giving the "saved" money to multi-million-dollar-salary-earning bosses. But will ICC take up the case ?
 
Bug-filled codes is what the Indian companies HCL and Cyient wrote for Boeing's 737 Max plane and two of these planes crashed and killed 356 people. This is mass murder done by two Indian companies who have to taken to the International Criminal Court by the people close to those dead. Boeing also has to be taken to ICC for trying to "save" money like a haraami Indian middle classi just to continue giving the "saved" money to multi-million-dollar-salary-earning bosses. But will ICC take up the case ?
WOW!!!

So prompt, diligent and hardworking in replying to favourite and convenient posts but consistent silence on answering inconvenient and difficult questions. As if you were never asked those questions.
 
Ah, socio-economic oppression brought to you by Virus. How nice to see this to start the morning.
actually, you're not even qualified for a zomato delivery boy job.

apart from being uneducated and unqualified, you don't know how to ride a bike or scooty either, do you ?

also, people's food will be at risk from a starving person like you who will probably start stealing from the parcels

go chew on a dead rat, you maggot.. wohi milega free ka.
 
actually, you're not even qualified for a zomato delivery boy job.

apart from being uneducated and unqualified, you don't know how to ride a bike or scooty either, do you ?
Riding a bike or scooty is easy. It is negotiating through a bad traffic consisting of rash drivers, that is difficult and dangerous.
 

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