Make in India: US offers to jointly manufacture fighter jets with India

[SrNair]

Remind me of what nation wont sanction you or stop support your systems if you go against their interests? Maybe Russia, depending on where you get involved, but not too many others. It happens that the US is more easily bothered than say, France, the UK or Russia, but do you honestly believe that through all ills and tribulations that France would support your Rafales, even if you anger them? Of course they wont, and you'd be left on an island. It's an overblown concern, all nations will respond if their interests are threatened. The US just has more interests and presents a greater risk for India.

The Indian defense establishment sees the risk as diminishing, hence multiple deals with the US for S-70B, AH-64, C-17, P-8I and other US gear.

Would these deals have happened if India was concerned about sanctions or would they have opted for Russian or indigenous designs instead?

And if France, as @Chinese-Dragon noted , is susceptible to US pressure, as seen with the Mistral saga, would the Rafale be a bad investment for India too due to the susceptibility of France to be pressured by the US?

I've seen no indications that that would be true.

That is why we asked them the ToT of Rafale .We did the same in SU 30mki and now our HAL have 100% technology for the production of of MKI .And unlike Russia we have other big defense deals with France like Scorpene deals .French companies will face huge loss and market loss if they attempt for something like that.
You should also follow the procurement methodology of the GoI .S 70 B and AH 64 didnt inked until now.Perhaps it may be in near future .Other weapons are 3 most expensive aircrafts like C17,C130 and P 8.And each of them have Russian equvialent in our inventory like IL 78.,AN32 and Tupolev.
And there is another Indian system that can be equal to AH 64 ,the LCH.

 

[Perpendicular]

Unofficially this mmrca bullshit is still going on. Nobody knows what we gonna buy now or make here. 36 Rafales does not make sense of it all.
LCA is more important than ever before today for it to be successful, which it is going to be.
Today or tomorrow IAF is going to fly an American jet, question is which one fits the bill and requirements.

 

[Sarjen29]

We have su 30 MKI a twin engine fighter which has good capabilities, we also have mig 29 !
We need a cheap interceptor/dog fighter to fill the gap until LCA mark 2 arrives say 5 to 6 years.

Dude... Even LCA will be used as Intercepter replacing Mig-21 and 27, what we now neen is some Medium category Multi role fighter.. Rafael,Ef,and Super Hornet fits right in and bring new capability to IAF. That's why we can't drop this deal. Either agree with the french and go for Rafael or show them the middile finger and buy F-18

 

[Styx]

Is there any other country that fields frontline US and Russian jets together?

Malaysia, mig 29, Su 30 and F/A 18

 

[Srinivas]

Dude... Even LCA will be used as Intercepter replacing Mig-21 and 27, what we now neen is some Medium category Multi role fighter.. Rafael,Ef,and Super Hornet fits right in and bring new capability to IAF. That's why we can't drop this deal. Either agree with the french and go for Rafael or show them the middile finger and buy F-18

LCA is not ready yet, Su 30 MKI and Mig 29's have the capabilities.

Multi role is a misused term, what we need is fighters of two classes. One heavy deep penetration/air superiority fighter and one very good dogfighter.

If we bring in the cost factor Rafale is very expensive and offers to ToT. Instead setting up a production line in India of F16's is a better option. Plus if we get the deal right we can also get tech. help in AMCA program.

India is developing avionics, AESA and other gadgets with the help of Israel.

 

[Sarjen29]

LCA is not ready yet, Su 30 MKI and Mig 29's have the capabilities.

Multi role is a misused term, what we need is fighters of two classes. One heavy deep penetration/air superiority fighter and one very good dogfighter.

Dis agree... we need 3 catagories... and Mig-29 is not heavy but Medium as per IAF standards. With IAF's sqds are getting low, we need These fighters, and Dude, LCA is not a offensive platform like f-18 or Rafael.. Building more LCA's good.. it strengthens the defence and sqds but doesn't bring new capability to IAF in terms of Offense.

 

[Srinivas]

Dis agree... we need 3 catagories... and Mig-29 is not heavy but Medium as per IAF standards. With IAF's sqds are getting low, we need These fighters, and Dude, LCA is not a offensive platform like f-18 or Rafael.. Building more LCA's good.. it strengthens the defence and sqds but doesn't bring new capability to IAF in terms of Offense.

Priorities

1) Need to fill the squadron strength which is depleting fastly.

2) Need good dog fighter at the Chinese front.

3) Need a superior technology to get an edge over Chinese and Pakistanis.

4) Need big boost to the domestic industry, India's future are AMCA's, LCA's.

5) Need to have very good and reliable strategic partnerships.

based on the above points

We should be doing either of them

1) Go for used F16's and buy 3 squadrons of Rafale. At the same time form a JV with US/France or Eurofighter to get much needed boost in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA. Develop a strong naval airforce.

2) Go for F16 production lines, Go for JV with USA , upgrade su 30 MKI's to super sukhois with the help of US tech, form a JV with US in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA.Develop a strong naval airforce.

 

[Sarjen29]

Priorities

1) Need to fill the squadron strength which is depleting fastly.

2) Need good dog fighter at the Chinese front.

3) Need a superior technology to get an edge over Chinese and Pakistanis.

4) Need big boost to the domestic industry, India's future are AMCA's, LCA's.

5) Need to have very good and reliable strategic partnerships.

based on the above points

We should be doing either of them

1) Go for used F16's and buy 3 squadrons of Rafale. At the same time form a JV with US/France or Eurofighter to get much needed boost in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA. Develop a strong naval airforce.

2) Go for F16 production lines, Go for JV with USA , upgrade su 30 MKI's to super sukhois with the help of US tech, form a JV with US in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA.Develop a strong naval airforce.

1. Yes. That's why with the delay of LCA we need this MRCA

2. MKI's are more than enough but Rafael will give a great boost.

3.We already have them, And MRCA will make them wanna cry

4. Yes. the problem is LCA. without that moving forward center is not going to give priority for AMCA and without getting some help from the ToT of MMRCA or FGFA, AMCA is not going to go ahead.

5. The only reliable partner for us will be ourselves. that's why Our future plan is to build every thing in home to avoid foreign import. So it's always good to pay the heavy price now for tot and ect get the tech, We'll have FGFA as heavy, AMCA as Medium and LCA as point defense (will be converted into stealth in future). So we can say good bye to Future import in this section.

 

[sathya]

Priorities

1) Need to fill the squadron strength which is depleting fastly.

2) Need good dog fighter at the Chinese front.

3) Need a superior technology to get an edge over Chinese and Pakistanis.

4) Need big boost to the domestic industry, India's future are AMCA's, LCA's.

5) Need to have very good and reliable strategic partnerships.

based on the above points

We should be doing either of them

1) Go for used F16's and buy 3 squadrons of Rafale. At the same time form a JV with US/France or Eurofighter to get much needed boost in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA. Develop a strong naval airforce.

2) Go for F16 production lines, Go for JV with USA , upgrade su 30 MKI's to super sukhois with the help of US tech, form a JV with US in developing technologies for AMCA and LCA.Develop a strong naval airforce.

Both has nil chance..

We ain't buying second hand mirages forget used f16
TVC of Russia has more chance to fit in with USA fighter than a USA component in Russian frontline fighter..


F16 block 60IN will be in medium category , will minuscule our neighbour s trump card.. + since it's a generation behind , so USA might offer tot ..

Work ethics of USA industry may well be followed by our private industry ..

 

[OrionHunter]

If you put your faith in the American's, they'll open up their defense industry even more and allow you things they'd have refused in the past.

But it's a question of being bitten once with sanctions. Remember the saying: for want of a nail, the war was lost!

The Americans can shut the tap anytime they want leaving us out on a limb. How do we trust them? What are the guarantees that they will not do so later? Would they hold us to ransom if we don't toe their line in the geopolitical sphere?

 

[Indian Patriot]

If you put your faith in the American's, they'll open up their defense industry even more and allow you things they'd have refused in the past.

This quote sums up why the Americans are unreliable suppliers. You get on their wrong side and they stop he tap. In 1962 they were India's friends, in 1971 they nearly atacked India, in 1998 they slapped sanctions, post 9/11 they again warmed up to India.

The Americans need India to tackle China, and in future if India becomes an economic powerhouse and is seen as a threat to US economic clout then they will prop up pakistan. And speaking of pakistan look up their relations with US as well. From cold war allies the US now sees pakistan as their primary drone target.

 

[Perpendicular]

@Srinivas F18 would be better choice considering what chinese are fielding and there know how from pak f16's. Too many variants, Have to consider simplifying logistics and support systems.
Whatever we choose for future IAF fighter programs must relate to our naval airforce.

 

[Srinivas]

@Srinivas F18 would be better choice considering what chinese are fielding and there know how from pak f16's. Too many variants, Have to consider simplifying logistics and support systems.
Whatever we choose for future IAF fighter programs must relate to our naval airforce.

we need a good and cheap dogfighter which can be inducted in numbers, which can also combat chinese jets in case they intrude into our skies.

A single engine fighter like F16 will come in handy.

We have mig 29's in F18 category.

I am only stressing this point and assuming this induction as a stop gap measure until LCA mark 2 arrives.

We have to go for quantity and if in case we want to have some technological edge we should go for 3 squadrons of Rafales.

All this is because of the delay in LCA.

 

[ito]

Although Rafale is the best...F18 Super Hornet would have been highly cost effective and would have filled India's requirement rather well.

 

[Perpendicular]

we need a good and cheap dogfighter which can be inducted in numbers, which can also combat chinese jets in case they intrude into our skies.

A single engine fighter like F16 will come in handy.

We have mig 29's in F18 category.

I am only stressing this point and assuming this induction as a stop gap measure until LCA mark 2 arrives.

We have to go for quantity and if in case we want to have some technological edge we should go for 3 squadrons of Rafales.

All this is because of the delay in LCA.

Three squadrons might be enough for pak fizaaeea but not for plaaf.
For quantity LCA makes perfect sense, no other fighter can give us that. It can be our own F16 in good numbers if we want. You are right we need to sort out production mess pronto.