Lebanon clashes rage near mosque; 16 soldiers dead

[TheThreePashas]

Is it that the Lebanese Army isn't politically strong enough to assert itself or is it just a matter of tactically being weaker? I mean, it's not like Hezbollah has armored vehicles and helicopters and such.

 

[Penguin]

Is it that the Lebanese Army isn't politically strong enough to assert itself or is it just a matter of tactically being weaker? I mean, it's not like Hezbollah has armored vehicles and helicopters and such.

Hezbollah has plenty of artillery rockets and AT(G)W. Plus, Lebanese army equipment isn't that modern. So, there's reasons to be cautious.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The Lebanese Military is well trained, with officers and trainers sent abroad regularly. They may have lost 10 or 16 soldiers but they would have easily taken down many more, unless they were shot in the back. They don't mess around.

It seems the Military moved in to "advise" this Cleric to stop any references to the Civil War in the adjacent country.

Await the Iron Fist response, the soldiers will put this guy down in response to their comrades being buried 6 feet under.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The Lebanese Military is the Military force of Lebanon. There are patriots from all over the country. Regardless of ethnicity or religion.

The Military has started to flex some of it's muscles. After the devastating Hiz-Israeli war and the 2007 Refugee situation, many soldiers were sent abroad and many foreign trainers came into the country. For countries to show support for the Lebanese Government.

The Military may not possess as many artillery or have dug as many tunnels as Hizbul, but any seasoned Lebanese Soldier face to face with a Hizbuli the soldier will win.

 

[Penguin]

You seem to be under the impression I was saying bad things about the Lebanese army. I don't know why, but I didn't. So, I suggest you take it easy.

The Lebanese army is numerically superior to Hezbollah, clearly. However, when you examine their materiel, you for example find their tank force of some 385 MBTs consists of M48 and M60 and T55. Leopard 1A5 and T-90 may arrive in the future. However, the tanks present aren't well protected against Hezbollah ATGW, which include the Russian-made AT-3 Sagger, AT-4 Spigot, AT-5 Spandrel, AT-13 Saxhorn-2 'Metis-M', АТ-14 Spriggan 'Kornet'; Iranian-made Ra'ad (version of AT-3 Sagger), Towsan (version of AT-5 Spandrel), Toophan (version of BGM-71 TOW); and European-made MILAN missiles. These weapons have been used to effect against IDF armor, which is in many ways superior to that of the Lebanese army. Add to that some 2000 M113 APC, which in there not-upgraded state are protecting against 14,5mm AP rounds in the frontal arc and 7.62mm AP rounds elsewhere and are not uparmored like those of IDF. These are objective statements about facts. Only a fool would ignore those facts (and I'm sure the Lebanese Army doesn't)

How well do you think these cope with hollow charge warheaded ATGW? Note the absense of reactive armor and of slat-armor. That pic of the M113 burning is from the last few days, and tells you where and how some of those 16 may have died.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/ap/religion/bomb-explodes-in-eastern-lebanon-near-syria/nYTXS/
http://www.gazettenet.com/news/nation/world/3187011-95/syria-syrian-assad-lebanese

 

[Penguin]

Directly or via Egypt or Jordan, the Lebanese army also has obtained 16 ex-Belgian AIFV-B-C25 vehicles, same as Dutch YPR-765 sold to Egypt, and Turkish ACV-300. These are better protected (14,5mm all around) and armed (25mm cannon) than M113 but still vulnerable to ATGWs and ATR.

Syrian violence spills into Jordan, Lebanon - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

By comparison, a Dutch YPR-765 in Afghanistan. Note the Israeli made add-on armor...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/81482-israel-defense-forces-15.html

 

[raptor22]

thanks . Why did the supporters of this Sunni leader kill these soldiers ? this is why I asked the previous question.

"...Fighting started after gunmen loyal to Assir opened fire on an army checkpoint on Sunday, the army said. Assir's supporters accuse the army of backing Hezbollah..."​

Lebanon faces chaos after deadliest Syria-related clashes

It's their logic whenever, wherever they intend they could open fire and kill people ... it's not only in Lebanon:

Egypt mob attack kills four Shia Muslims near Cairo


In fact they wanna push Lebanon into an internal war, it's a long story but the question is If Hezbollah is a devil party why do you kill Lebanese army ? if you think this party should be punished due to supporting Assad regime why do you open fire on regular army?

All institutions, including the Army, in Lebanon live in fear of Hezbollah. As shown by the assassinations of Sunni politicians over the past 10 years, Hezbollah can kill anyone and get away with it. The Army may not be pro-Shia but it is impotent against Hezbollah.

You are calling the liberator of Lebanon a source of assassination? you're replacing Israel with Hezbollah? where were you when Shia were being killed all over region? In south Lebanon, Iraq, north Africa, Pakistan ... Shia is just defending itself nothing more, you American better go and negotiate and bond with your old friend and new announced assistance i.e. Taliban to boost democracy and freedom in the region ... and we will do our best to not allow you to bring those plot in practice ...

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Chill Penguin, I wasn't offended by your previous post. You merely stated the obvious Hezbullis have more artillery and rockets while the Military has older armored vehicles.

The Lebanese Military doesn't just send its tanks around in an urban environment. The Tanks are used for targeted strikes, on walls/ buildings that have enemy militants behind them. They are well behind the front line established by the infantry.

The M113 was just transporting the soldiers when some cowardly a$$hole took them out.

The Military is establishing itself. After this incident they have pressured politicians to offer more than just lip service. They know about the danger of the Syrian War crossing over the border. And Most Lebanese aren't going to allow another Civil War in Lebanon.

 

[Zarvan]

Please lock him up, teach him a lesson he can't forget.

All Muslim countries need to strike in Syria with their Air forces and destroy Assad forces specially his Air Force and his Tanks others would be taken care off by Rebels

 

[kalu_miah]

All Muslim countries need to strike in Syria with their Air forces and destroy Assad forces specially his Air Force and his Tanks others would be taken care off by Rebels

Muslim Sunni majority countries could not join officially with their Army, Navy or Air Force, since Hezbollah is non-state actor and Iran and Iraq govt. is providing covert support.

Instead, in addition to a plentiful supply of ATGM and MANPADs, I support recruiting and training people in majority Sunni Muslim countries with Army trainers and Arabic language instructors and then start sending them in covertly to work under "moderate" FSA command, in the guise of migrant workers in GCC countries. Iran Mullah's are itching for a Shia-Sunni war, lets give them what they want.

 

[Doritos11]

Muslim Sunni majority countries could not join officially with their Army, Navy or Air Force, since Hezbollah is non-state actor and Iran and Iraq govt. is providing covert support.

Instead, in addition to a plentiful supply of ATGM and MANPADs, I support recruiting and training people in majority Sunni Muslim countries with Army trainers and Arabic language instructors and then start sending them in covertly to work under "moderate" FSA command, in the guise of migrant workers in GCC countries. Iran Mullah's are itching for a Shia-Sunni war, lets give them what they want.

Actually they can, Turkey from the north and the other Arab countries through Jordan.

 

[kalu_miah]

Actually they can, Turkey from the north and the other Arab countries through Jordan.

They can, but they have not. That is why it is still officially a proxy war, not a regional war yet. Lets hope that this will end as a proxy war.

 

[Doritos11]

They can, but they have not. That is why it is still officially a proxy war, not a regional war yet. Lets hope that this will end as a proxy war.

It is sad for Iraq and Syria that they will have to go through proxy wars for many more years to come because Saudi Arabia and Iran will not go to war directly.
If they just did it over the gulf then Iraq and Syria will have peace.

 

[Alshawi1234]

They can, but they have not. That is why it is still officially a proxy war, not a regional war yet. Lets hope that this will end as a proxy war.

They can, and it's exactly what they have been doing and still are doing. Saudi Arabia is even arming the FSA from their own weapons stockpiles.

 

[Hyperion]

Arrogance and stupidity of just ONE country has put all of the Middle East on fire..... WTF....

No, I'm not talking about Syria, rather Saudia.