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Lal Masjid commandos court-martialed seek justice from SC

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Well there are certain things to be considered that make this a special case

1. Most important fact is that Musharraf's regime had hit an all time low and so had the image of army among public. While the big generals in their mighty mansions were happy supporting Musharraf, soldiers were losing morale due to the alarming mistrust between public and the army. That was one of the biggest concern for Kayani and that is exactly why as soon as he took office his first priority was adressing these concerns and reviving army's image

2. Musharraf was an American stooge and he pretty much turned the army into a bunch of mercenaries for the Americans therefore it can be understood why the officers questioned there superiors

3. Soldiers are humans, they aren't machines.. They have a conscience and a right to think for themseleves.. An order to lay waste to a masjid and that too by a commander notorious for US buttlicking.. who wouldn't second guess that ?

4. Give em atleast a chance to defend their honour

5. We want soldiers who want to protect their country not because they are ordered to. And to make that happen army has to be fighting for the people and by people I mean us Pakistanis not Washington.
Well spare me the Washington bullshit.The Lal Masjid thugs were not in Washington but trying to destroy Islamabad.Its out of line - they were given orders and they refused, for that they have to face the consequences. Ten of their colleagues made the ultimate sacrifice and the country still suffers because of the actions of those inside the building - pointless calling it a mosque. Letting these chaps go would set the wrong precedence for others who will start refusing to serve when the Army has to face off against other militants.Army will never let civil courts intervene in Army Internal Matters.Such is the case as in US Armed Forces the Civil courts have no jurisdiction unless Civil crime is committed outside the base.The judgment might contain some classified data because of which it is not possible to present the judgment.
 
☪☪☪☪;920192 said:
Army will never let civil courts intervene in Army Internal Matters.

Court of Appeals comes under the JAG. It is not a civil court. Nonetheless, all military laws have to abide by constitutional limits and they have been interpreted in multiple cases in the SC. Air Force Act has had to be amended twice as well.

Such is the case as in US Armed Forces the Civil courts have no jurisdiction unless Civil crime is committed outside the base.

United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces is a civil court like many other Appeals Courts for militaries in the world. Ours is not such a case though.

The judgment might contain some classified data because of which it is not possible to present the judgment.

"Present" is a wrong word. Again you are interpreting as if the judgment is being forwarded to a civil court. A defendant has the right to appeal his court. Unless a copy of the judgment is provided, he has no way he can appeal the decision.

Let me just clarify the whole scenario for you people are stuck with twisting it somehow when it is plain simple.

1. Soldiers handed down punishment by Field General Court Martial.
2. Soldier has now right to appeal decision in Court of Appeals.
3. Defence has not been provided copy rendering an appeal out of the question.
4. Federal Shariat Court has deemed this an unconstitutional and UnIslamic act.

My objections to Court of Appeals being a military court are irrelevant here for the fact of the matter is that somebody is being denied a fundamental right to appeal. He was handed down a punishment because he allegedly sympathized with the enemy and expressed views not to support an operation against them. Therefore he was handed a punishment for it, which he should serve not withstanding his fundamental right to appeal the decision. If you happen to read jurisprudence, or perhaps even try to think rationally why it is so necessary to provide an appeal then you'll support the right to receive a copy of the judgment. An error in judgment, mistrial or technicality cannot be ruled out of question in any judgment anywhere in the world. That is why an appeals stage is always present so as not to sentence anybody unjustly. Besides the fundamental flaw of military judges in Pakistan being field soldiers and not judicial officers, there always exists the chances of an unjust decision. Even if the proof is downright conclusive including forensic, circumstantial or even testimonial, the defendant is allowed the right to appeal keeping in mind the profound nature of the punishment.

If you perceive this as some bad-image propaganda, then perhaps you should think by placing yourself in a position where you might have been the victim of injustice. Nobody, absolutely nobody has said that the judgment is wrong, unjust or unnecessary (the merits of the judgment haven't been released anyway) but I for one believe that he should have the right to a fair trial and an appeal.

A fair trial constitutes both an impartial, experienced and trained judge and a good defence lawyer. In the absence of these things, what is present i.e. a Field General Court Martial and the existing nature of the Court of Appeals should not be denied. He has been given the right to appeal his judgment, nobody has the right to deny him this right.
 
Well there are certain things to be considered that make this a special case

1. Most important fact is that Musharraf's regime had hit an all time low and so had the image of army among public. While the big generals in their mighty mansions were happy supporting Musharraf, soldiers were losing morale due to the alarming mistrust between public and the army. That was one of the biggest concern for Kayani and that is exactly why as soon as he took office his first priority was adressing these concerns and reviving army's image

2. Musharraf was an American stooge and he pretty much turned the army into a bunch of mercenaries for the Americans therefore it can be understood why the officers questioned there superiors

3. Soldiers are humans, they aren't machines.. They have a conscience and a right to think for themseleves.. An order to lay waste to a masjid and that too by a commander notorious for US buttlicking.. who wouldn't second guess that ?

4. Give em atleast a chance to defend their honour

5. We want soldiers who want to protect their country not because they are ordered to. And to make that happen army has to be fighting for the people and by people I mean us Pakistanis not Washington.

Lets keep the anti-musharaff sentiments out of here, before sparkling slaps us around with more of his biased literature presaved from posts before.

All branches of the goverment in Pakistan do not work like they should. Corruption and criminal cases are roaming around from the other 2 branches like no tomorrow. Why single out the Army now?
 
Lets keep the anti-musharaff sentiments out of here, before sparkling slaps us around with more of his biased literature presaved from posts before.

The Mush comments are obviously uncalled for but may I question the nature of my biased pre-saved posts and their relevance here?

All branches of the goverment in Pakistan do not work like they should. Corruption and criminal cases are roaming around from the other 2 branches like no tomorrow. Why single out the Army now?

Whose singling the military out? The same apologetic agenda is used again and again to somehow defend a wrong. The papers and this forum are filled with allegations, court cases and general abuses against the bureaucracy and the politicians. They are receiving treatment from the public and the law for their actions. Do not give the Anti-Army propaganda logic here.

Do not post off topic in order to inflame another military vs politicians debate. If you have nothing better or substantiative to add, then do not post any further.
 
Whose singling the military out? The same apologetic agenda is used again and again to somehow defend a wrong. The papers and this forum are filled with allegations, court cases and general abuses against the bureaucracy and the politicians. They are receiving treatment from the public and the law for their actions.

Suprisingly none that I have read coming from you ..
 
Not that it should .. goodluck with your future posts.
 
Sparklingway Forcetrip was replying to Creder posts not yours.
 
I do agree with Super Falcon, however I feel that they won't get what they are seeking. The Army would not want to set a precedent for others to follow. My take on this is that the commandos should have followed the orders and let the burden of sin lie on Gen. Musharraf. However acting according to one's conscience has its own rewards and these commandos are reaping it for now.


atleast first time someone agreed with me thanx for agrreing
 
Hi,

Thanks for clearing it up---the eyes read what the mind wants to at times.

In cases here in the u s the millitary has not given documents to the defence attorney claiming national security issues---sensitive material---regarding the terrorist cases---. Possibly the millitary can hold the docs in a similiar manner.

It just becomes a national security issue. Some of the retd or active millitary personale on this board can shed a better light on this issue.

Why don't you e-mail the chairperson of TT---being an ex millitary officer---he can share the proper answer.
 
Hi,

Thanks for clearing it up---the eyes read what the mind wants to at times.

In cases here in the u s the millitary has not given documents to the defence attorney claiming national security issues---sensitive material---regarding the terrorist cases---. Possibly the millitary can hold the docs in a similiar manner.

It just becomes a national security issue. Some of the retd or active millitary personale on this board can shed a better light on this issue.

Why don't you e-mail the chairperson of TT---being an ex millitary officer---he can share the proper answer.



friend to whom you are mentionig this
 
Hi,

That is supposed to be fatman17---
 
Court martialling some one just on the basis of a verdict doesnt sound justified.
 
After reading First Post by sparklingway
I am sad , and now sad with worry too.
 
After reading First Post by sparklingway
I am sad , and now sad with worry too.

Hi Mughaljee,

Aap mujhey bohat dukhi lagtey hain---itna ranj mut kia karein---meri tarah aap kay bhee sarey baal jhar jayen gay.
 
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