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Kargil’s military success was converted into political defeat: Musharraf

You have to realise that the government had lost a vote of confidence in Parliament & was effectively in till the elections as a caretaker government. While that is no legal bar, a certain amount of restraint automatically follows. Having said that, a wider war was considered & was thought of as inevitable because of the difficulty the army had to vacate the positions taken by Pakistan. a decision to that effect was taken by the top leadership, only to be held back because Tololing point 5140(I think) was taken on that day itself. The Pakistani positions then started falling continuously after that and that pretty much ended the idea of a wider war.

Not sure whether this is commonly known here but Naik & Mishra, the back channel diplomats for Sharif & Vajpayee had almost decided at one point that Sharif was going to come to India (I believe it was on his way to China) and announce a withdrawal along with fresh negotiations on Kashmir thereby giving Pakistan an honourable exit and some reward for their efforts and would have allowed the Pakistanis to claim a victory of sorts. However as the positions on the ground changed and international diplomatic support to India increased, a decision was taken that there was no reason to indulge the Pakistanis & Sharif. The news of the proposed meeting was leaked to the media deliberately & then called off. India then pressed forward its military & diplomatic advantage and pretty much made sure that when the withdrawal came, neither Sharif nor Musharraf had even a fig leaf to cover their essential bits.

You know I have some faith in Najam Sethis expose that Nawaz Sharif actually knew about the misadventure. He just assumed because of reassurances from his Generals that India won't retaliate in a significant way. It was when we began to shell and use the fighters that he lost his nerves because he realized that all options will be put on the table. He then disowned any knowledge of the incidents. Mushy BTW was also not as much of a brag as he is on this. He too lost his nerve and fully supported Nawaz's attempts to get US to intervene and stop the retaliation. But he felt betrayed that Nawaz decided to put all blame on him. That's why the two fell out eventually.
 
May be...But when he looked down "He found India Holding on to its balls tightly"....:D

With a pair of pliers :)

Side-Cutting-Plier-.jpg
 
There are multiple ways of assessing the constrains on both the military and the political leadership, both decision makers wanted a swift, low cost, low intensity conflict.
Spot on...imagine if conflict was escalated what will be our situation right now...a bankrupt economy... a nation of 1.2 billion with nothing in hand...
Suppose,if we escalate kargil ..
1. what will be outcome, at most we defeat the Pakistan ....taking some peaks (India will not take Azad Kashmir).. then what??? Pakistan and India stil there ...with more poorer, bankrupts nations which are open to western nation to lynch us again...
2. Do you really think after war we get peace?? I don't think so...instead there will be more people like Lakhvi on both side of border....
3. If we consider nuclear war (only ideat will do that.. we S.A are ideate but not that much) ...then ...............(nothing left to even wright)
4. Human losses in lakhs...incase nuclear ...crore...
5. If war happen, at this time, instead of writing this... I am begging somewhere, or doing some shittii job in west/middle east may be even in Africa ...or I would have died in war.....
and is this outcome is really worth to suffer, to gain what, some false bravado of ananymous internet persons...
 
Mr. Musharraf is totally wrong, it was an undeclared war with Indians gathering maximum points. Pakistan was on a verge of reliquinshing to Indian military...
 
itne soldiers mar gaye both sides.. kabhi socha hai. WTF, chai biscuit discussion. We have created entertainment out of this war. Ask soldiers, if they are happy with the war, they will be the first ones to say NO, but orders are orders. Success or Failure, thank God it's over!
 
Can you please elaborate on this 'intentional planning'. Are you saying that West Pakistan always wanted East Pakistan to separate and everything was a ruse to lure India into doing the dirty job for Pakistan?

Hi,

Bhutto wanted to be the prime minister of Pakistan----looking at the number of votes he could muster in the parliament that was never possible---he would always have to sit back on the opposition benches and Mujib would be the prime minister----.

Bhuttos ego would never accept that---he considered himself to be better than anyone----thus the issues were created to start the separation of east Pakistan now banlgadesh.
 
Hi,

Bhutto wanted to be the prime minister of Pakistan----looking at the number of votes he could muster in the parliament that was never possible---he would always have to sit back on the opposition benches and Mujib would be the prime minister----.

Bhuttos ego would never accept that---he considered himself to be better than anyone----thus the issues were created to start the separation of east Pakistan now banlgadesh.
Dear sir,

If I may pose a simple question, Why was your military sleeping, they were quite swift to usurp elected leaders when their own interests are endangered, why did they not protect the mandate of the people who pay their salaries instead backing someone that you are claiming subverted the fortunes of Pakistan?
 
Dear sir,

If I may pose a simple question, Why was your military sleeping, they were quite swift to usurp elected leaders when their own interests are endangered, why did they not protect the mandate of the people who pay their salaries instead backing someone that you are claiming subverted the fortunes of Pakistan?
So when military take over it is blamed. When military do not take over it is blamed again......now this is confusing. o_O
 
So when military take over it is blamed. When military do not take over it is blamed again......now this is confusing. o_O
Military intervention for people - Justifiable,
Military complicity against the people - Despicable...

hope that clarifies.
 
Military intervention for people - Justifiable,
Military complicity against the people - Despicable...

hope that clarifies.
It will increase confusion. Because we don't have any parameter to decide weather military is taking over for good reason or bad reason.....
 
So when military take over it is blamed. When military do not take over it is blamed again......now this is confusing. o_O

More like the absurd proposition of what is said of why the military pulled back in Kargil is not tenable (slightly on a different but important point to the one being discussed). According to that line, the Pakistani Army, when in reach of a great victory, pulled back because the PM ordered them to. However when the PM sacked the CoAS, the army intervened & gave him the order of the boot. That would suggest that the PA placed higher value on who the chief was than on winning a war.
 
Hi,

Bhutto wanted to be the prime minister of Pakistan----looking at the number of votes he could muster in the parliament that was never possible---he would always have to sit back on the opposition benches and Mujib would be the prime minister----.

Bhuttos ego would never accept that---he considered himself to be better than anyone----thus the issues were created to start the separation of east Pakistan now banlgadesh.

 

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