JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[swati]

Dont get angry, you better do some research first. common sense doesn't work all the time. during war you dont have that much time to drop tanks to launch flares. and most of the points you are mentioning, i posted long time ago in the thread which i linked in my last post.



i ve seen that as well .. i ll be thank full if you could post that video here. every thing will be cleared.
besides its not such an issue that thunder is right now flying with or without Chaff and flare dispencers. it can be installed later as they were installed on PAF mirages, f-7 and A-5s. An operational status does not confirms that the aircraft has Flares and chaff on board. PAF operated a-5 and mirages for a long duration of time without these stuff. there are a number of aircrafts that were operated without C/F for long time but later versions were upgraded with it.
those thunder demonstrated at Zuhai and Izmir did not have dispensers on them. PT-4/6 seems to have black squares like dispensers similar to f-16s but they are not present in productional aircrafts.

Hmmm looks like you are still sticking to your point. I think you should ask other senior members on this forum so that they can confirm it to you.


as far as for thinking i am getting angry =

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

JF-17 has flares as well as chaffs and other means of defensive suit also.

You can't see the places for chaffs or flares as they are not visible on normal flight days, they get placed in needs of emergency or when required.

Be it JF-17 or Mirages or F-16s, except for the CAP duty aircraft, the flares and chaffs are removed during normal flying duties.

During war times, emergency times, exercises and for CAP duties you get the aircraft fully loaded.

taimi bhai, i agree that chaff and flares are removed during normal days and only used while crucial times.
But what i am talking about the place and the box (dispenser) should be there. dispenser is fixed with screws and linked with electric wire that lights flares. and recently i ve seen a Mirage-3 landing at Masroor AB very low, had no flares but Dispensers were there. i can show you many normal flight pictures of A-5 and mirages-3 with dispensers on board.

see blow PAF f-16 at Izmir, a Normal condition. No Flares but Dispenser is there.

see an empty CM Dispenser of F-15e at public display.

All i can see C/F dispensers filled or empty on every following birds

But i am unable to see CM Dispenser on JFT. all you can do is simply SHOW ME. its another case if you claims JFT C/F dispensers are like F-22, covered under a door.

To add more to Sir Taimi's post,during air defence missions a/c are loaded with everything they might need during any possible encounter with any intruder i.e. A2A weapons,guns, chaffs/flares (all in live state)etc.

Ratio of chaffs/flares load out depends upon mission planning (mainly mission type/formation/load out etc) for SEAD/LLS chaffs will be more in number as compare to flares.

Following are images from fire power demo of HM 2010.

Respected Najam bhai, i cannot see any flares yet. if you are talking about the tiny flash behind second thunder of first picture. its a JFT tail Strobe light, placed above ECM device.

i ve search through different videos oh High marks FP Display last night. but saw nothing.

 

[mughaljee]

Sir TaimiKhan,
Please share some technical advantages of JB-10 over JF-17 ?

 

[ziaulislam]

Just wonder why Egyptians, Turkish, or Arab countries think of JF-17 a bad toy or 3 generation jet?

JF-17 with BVR is not enough requirements for them ??

you take the price to 100 million and put a American label..they will buy it..

they are afraid of russian equipment..they think failure of 60 and 70s was due to equipment rather than their training and lack of planning

 

[Najam Khan]

Black flare/chaff housing of F-16 means that dispenser is covered, white one means its filled with chaffs & orange one with flares( visible on RJAF F-16 picture posted above). As far as your JF-17's point is concerned its difficult to conclude anything, from pictures its seems that flares/chaff dispenser is not added, but that does not
mean its not integrated with it yet, such elements were added to Thunder when it was inducted in 26 Sqn in Feb2010.

During T&E/airshows flare/chaff dispensers are removed,because their is no need to keep it in place during such public performances...looks like PAF guys are following various text books regarding aircraft maintenance and safety....or they believe in keeping the element of surprise for the enemy, if you have seen Flares/chaff dispenser closely, you'll notice its easy to count its buckets...one can create a hypothesis about the maximum quantity of flares/chaffs.

Trust me PAF high ups think that way...even the airshow maneuvers were explicitly selected by the high-ups, some 'beyond the limits' ones were removed, only the simple ones were performed....Thunder is a long way beyond its air show performances...at Izmir & Zhuhai pilots remained in the defined G-limits for the airshow, in real combat scenario its a totally different machine!

PS: I will post the flares/chaffs video soon!

 

[Last Hope]

Black flare/chaff housing of F-16 means that dispenser is covered, white one means its filled with chaffs & orange one with flares( visible on RJAF F-16 picture posted above). As far as your JF-17's point is concerned its difficult to conclude anything, from pictures its seems that flares/chaff dispenser is not added, but that does not mean its not integrated with it yet, such elements were added to Thunder when it was inducted in 26 Sqn in Feb2010.

I dont quite remember, but when I was a newbie on the forum we had a discussion on it with the flare dispensers of JF-17. The fact is, JF-17 does have flares. Rest will agree to your post.

During T&E/airshows flare/chaff dispensers are removed,because their is no need to keep it in place during such public performances...looks like PAF guys are following various text books regarding aircraft maintenance and safety....or they believe in keeping the element of surprise for the enemy, if you have seen Flares/chaff dispenser closely, you'll notice its easy to count its buckets...one can create a hypothesis about the maximum quantity of flares/chaffs.

Trust me PAF high ups think that way...even the airshow maneuvers were explicitly selected by the high-ups, some 'beyond the limits' ones were removed, only the simple ones were performed....Thunder is a long way beyond its air show performances...at Izmir & Zhuhai pilots remained in the defined G-limits for the airshow, in real combat scenario its a totally different machine!

I would agree too. With the vertical climb of the Jf-17 and ease in the G-turn, they could have done a lot better. They are some how, wanting to keep the 'real face' or power of JF-17 hidden beneath a cushion of rumors. Why, I haven't got a idea but what I can gurantee is, PAF and PAC are keeping the capabilities of JF-17 Thunder classified. RD-93, WS-10 and now WS-13. They havent found perfect one till now. Need tonns of more thrust, and expect JF-17 to reach 2.5 mach and/or perform like magic or what?

PS: I will post the flares/chaffs video soon!

I dont think that is a good idea to be honest. If they want to keep it classified, we leave it classified.

 

[razgriz19]

^^ whats the point of keeping chaff/flares classified??
pls do post a video, i want to see them with my own eyes too...

 

[Last Hope]

^^ whats the point of keeping chaff/flares classified??
pls do post a video, i want to see them with my own eyes too...

Its not only the Chaffs/Flares. But rest of the things like its maneuvers and turns/take-off capabilities/free-fall/ actual thrust:weight ratio

I never had a talk on this topic with my friends inside. I'll ask them and give some comments.

 

[razgriz19]

you can see the dispenser on this prototype

BUT im not sure if its also on the production aircraft.....there are two spots which looks like dispensers

 

[Dazzler]

taimi bhai, i agree that chaff and flares are removed during normal days and only used while crucial times.
But what i am talking about the place and the box (dispenser) should be there. dispenser is fixed with screws and linked with electric wire that lights flares. and recently i ve seen a Mirage-3 landing at Masroor AB very low, had no flares but Dispensers were there. i can show you many normal flight pictures of A-5 and mirages-3 with dispensers on board. Respected Najam bhai, i cannot see any flares yet. if you are talking about the tiny flash behind second thunder of first picture. its a JFT tail Strobe light, placed above ECM device. i ve search through different videos oh High marks FP Display last night. but saw nothing.

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/data/649/JFT1.JPG

 

[Imran Khan]

i can't understand whats his mean china pakistan can make nuclear bombs missiles jets tanks but can not install a flair dispenser ?

 

[razgriz19]

i think those two yellow spots, right behind the engine nozzle, are dispensers for chaff/flares, but are covered up. or they didn't install them yet...
if u look at the pt-6 photo, it has flare/chaff dispensers on the same spot, unless im mistaken....
LOOK AT THE POST #2904 for pictures!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/data/649/JFT1.JPG

A good illustration of where the systems are.

Hope danger-zone can now get an idea of where the systems are.

By the way, the Red encircled area are the air brakes, rest are the places for flares and chaffs.

Plus, there are other places also where such defensive suits can be installed but they are covered by normal body parts (plates) and screwed.

I do hope, people can remember the JF-17s with nothing in the MAWS fairing just below the parachute emplacement when JF-17 made it first international air show debut at Farnbrough.


So, end result is, JF-17 has all the defensive aid suit systems in place, no need to worry.

 

[Manticore]

another side by side

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

The picture Nabil posted here was circled by by PAFAce at Zuhai air show thread, when last time i recalled the same issue and i mentioned about all these places.
You guys seemed relaxed and i am as well. difference b/w your relaxation and mine is that you believe blindly and think that the dispensers are there but hidden but i believe what i see. i have seen many pictures of JFT # 112 - 113 - 114 - 116 but saw nothing like a box visible under F-16 under any kind of condition.
even Najam agrees with it to some extent

As far as your JF-17's point is concerned its difficult to conclude anything, from pictures its seems that flares/chaff dispenser is not added, but that does not
mean its not integrated with it yet, such elements were added to Thunder when it was inducted in 26 Sqn in Feb2010.

all is about the Golden plates Circled in blue could be a cover over Dispenser, as they are visible as black holes in Pt-4/6.

Conclusion is the those thunder which performed in air shows did not have or had covered the dispensers under GOLDEN PLATES, rest of the birds could have it as said by Najam khan. But the time will tell where they are actually because a new squadron is about to stand and new batch of 50 birds will be here in months and an home based exercise is coming up shortly.