What's new

JF-17 Block 3 vs. J-10C:

mwaraitch

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
102
Reaction score
0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
While the majority of combat aircraft designs in the People’s Republic of China since the early 1990s have been heavyweight twin engine platforms, the J-11B, J-16 and J-20 platforms being the most prolific examples, the country has also pursued development of two entirely distinct classes of single engine lightweight fighter jets. The J-10 and JF-17 first entered service in 2006 and 2008 respectively, with the former developed for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force and the latter developed for export and seeing no interest from China’s own armed forces until today. The latest iteration of the J-10, the ‘4++ generation’ J-10C fighter, entered PLA service in 2018 with over 200 operational today. The aircraft has benefited from a range of advanced new features including stealth coatings, more powerful engines with three dimensional thrust vectoring for extreme manoeuvrability, an AESA radar, new cockpit displays and electronic warfare systems, and access to the PL-15 and PL-10 air to air missiles. A technologically analogous JF-17 variant, the JF-17 Block 3, has benefitted from many of the same technologies with the notable exception of thrust vectoring engines. These technologies have similarly revolutionised the lighter jet's capabilities, and the new JF-17 variant is expected to enter service around the year 2022 and later be manufactured under license in Pakistan - its primary export client.
1630425568285.png

Although both the J-10 and the JF-17 are lightweight fighters, the differences between their weights are considerable. While both are much lighter than any Russian aircraft currently in production, they can be compared in weight range to the respective American F-16 and Swedish Gripen. The former is a standard lightweight jet, using a single engine from a heavyweight fighter class but in single rather than twin configuration, with the F-16 borrowing the engine from the F-15 and the J-10 borrowing the engine from the J-11 and J-16 fighters. The latter can be considered ‘very light’ fighters which use engines from twin engine medium fighters rather than from heavyweights - again in a single configuration. The Gripen borrows the engine from the F-18 Hornet Fighter, while the JF-17 uses a heavily enhanced version of the engine developed for the Hornet’s Russian analogue the MiG-29. Although the J-10 is considered far ahead of the F-16 in terms of capabilities, with upgrades to the much older American design being far more conservative, the JF-17 Block 3 is in many ways comparable to the Swedish-American Gripen E with both developed under similar design philosophies and prioritising similar capabilities.

The JF-17, by virtue of it being lighter and using a smaller engine than the J-10, is not only significantly cheaper to manufacture, but is also much cheaper and easier to operate. Lower maintenance requirements and a resulting high sortie and availability rate are one factor which makes the JF-17 comparable to the Gripen. The J-10 by contrast is significantly more costly both to operate and to manufacture, although still very cheap relative to medium or heavyweight jets like the J-16, but benefits from a much better flight performance. The larger jet can carry a heavier radar, and its powerful engine provides it with an unrivalled degree of manoeuvrability and the world’s highest climb rate for a single engine jet. The JF-17 Block 3, while overall less capable than the J-10C, can still pose a comparable threat in beyond visual range combat due to its similar avionics and its access to PL-15 missiles - widely considered the most capable air to air missile in the world today and benefitting from both AESA radar guidance and a 250-300km range. In addition, integration of the PL-10 missile has reduced the need for a more manoeuvrable airframe - allowing the pilot to fire at very extreme angles in visual range combat and removing the requirement for pointing the jet at the enemy which gave more manoeuvrable jets an advantage over older JF-17 variants.
1630425548620.png

The JF-17 Block 3 may well be the more cost effective of the two fighter classes, particularly for countries with smaller defence budgets which require lower operational costs to maintain large combat fleets, and the aircraft is expected to see considerably more foreign interest than its predecessors which were technologically almost two decades behind it. Although Pakistan is reportedly considering acquiring the J-10C to form elite new fighter units, or possibly to replace some of the older F-16 airframes in service which have been operational for close to 40 years, the JF-17 Block 3 is expected to account for the vast majority of new acquisitions and could well be purchased in larger numbers than the older JF-17 models. The aircraft will be the first in Pakistani service capable of going head to head with Indian MiG-29 and even Su-30MKI fighters from an advantageous position, at least at long ranges, and has significant room to incorporate upgrades over the coming decades.
1630425529880.png

The JF-17 Block 3 is expected to be much more popular than its predecessors on export markets due to its far superior capabilities and uniquely low cost for an aircraft with advanced next generation technologies, with Egypt, Iran, Myanmar and North Korea considered leading potential clients. The fighter could also be the first JF-17 variant to gain interest from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army itself, and provides a promising replacement for older variants of the J-7 fighter which could be chosen over the J-10C due to its considerably cheaper operational cost. Given the size of the PLA Air Force, a Chinese purchase could facilitate much larger production lines for the JF-17 Block 3 and ultimately make production much more efficient and cost effective. The J-10C and JF-17 Block 3 are expected to compete against one another for multiple contracts, while also competing against the Russian MiG-35 which was also developed as a ‘4++ generation’ aircraft primarily to compete on export markets. Alongside a lower cost and lower maintenance requirements, however, access to the PL-10 and PL-15 missiles are expected to be a major factor in favour of the Chinese jets with Russia having yet to integrate any comparable missiles on its own rival fighter.

Source: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...o-state-of-the-art-new-single-engine-fighters
 
In this world, there are only two kinds of high thrust single engine fighters, F16 and J10.
JAS39 and JF17 are medium thrust single engine fighters. Therefore, they should not be compared with F16 and J10. It's not fair.

There are many block of F16, and there is a big gap in combat effectiveness. The combat effectiveness of J10C is similar to that of F16block50 / 52.
 
In this world, there are only two kinds of high thrust single engine fighters, F16 and J10.
JAS39 and JF17 are medium thrust single engine fighters. Therefore, they should not be compared with F16 and J10. It's not fair.

There are many block of F16, and there is a big gap in combat effectiveness. The combat effectiveness of J10C is similar to that of F16block50 / 52.
disagree with the part in bold, blk52s aren't even close to combat capabilities of the J10Cs, blk52s lack IRST, AESA radar, while the J10Cs have then and on top of that they are also armed with the 155km range PL15s and HOBS PL10s, it outclasses the blk52s that carry the AIM120Cs with a max range of 110km and don't carry any HOBS missiles. Plus the J10Cs carry fast more offensive sensors than the blk52s do.

PAF's F16s are destined for a purely defensive role supplemented by F7PGs, the offensive punches will be delivered by the JF17, J10C & Mirage trio.
 
I think PLAAF already gives the answer. Despite given access to both JF-17 and J-10. Both aircraft designed by China and both aircraft with same chief and deputy designer.

China choose only J-10 to be inducted. Many duel aerial exercise conducted by PLAAF using both aircraft. The outcome of those result convinced only J-10 is the only solution when comes to aerial combat.
 
I think PLAAF already gives the answer. Despite given access to both JF-17 and J-10. Both aircraft designed by China and both aircraft with same chief and deputy designer.

China choose only J-10 to be inducted. Many duel aerial exercise conducted by PLAAF using both aircraft. The outcome of those result convinced only J-10 is the only solution when comes to aerial combat.

So why did Pakistan induct JF-17 instead of J-10C?

Was China not willing to share the J-10C tech with Pakistan?
 
So why did Pakistan induct JF-17 instead of J-10C?

Was China not willing to share the J-10C tech with Pakistan?
JF-17 is a project initial by Pakistan. They want a sanction proof fighter that matches 70% of F-16 but at a more affordable price tag. Remember JF-17 are semi- FBW and no composite in blk 1. It is clearly mean to be budget while still matches certain capabilities of F-16A.

J-10 is project totally funded by PLAAF. Saving cost is not the issue. Air superiority over ROCAF F-16 is the number one priority. Full digital FBW, composite, high thrust turbofan , canard layout for high speed, high attitude tight turn.

All these make J-10 has higher cost per unit but performance is guarantee.
 
1.
So why did Pakistan induct JF-17 instead of J-10C?

Because when starting JF-17 is developed to fit Pakistan's needs

The JF-17 was designed and developed primarily to meet the PAF requirement for an affordable, unsanctionable, fourth-generation, lightweight, multi-role combat aircraft as a replacement for its large fleet of Nanchang A-5C bombers, Chengdu F-7P/PG interceptors, and Dassault Mirage III/5 fighters



2.
Was China not willing to share the J-10C tech with Pakistan?

If Pakistan is interested and invested J-10 project in 1981, maybe.

In 1981, PLAAF Commander Zhang Tingfa submitted a proposal to Deng Xiaoping for the development of a third-generation fighter for CN¥ 500 million; it was accepted later that year by the Central Military Commission (CMC)
 
JF-17 is a project initial by Pakistan. They want a sanction proof fighter that matches 70% of F-16 but at a more affordable price tag. Remember JF-17 are semi- FBW and no composite in blk 1. It is clearly mean to be budget while still matches certain capabilities of F-16A.

J-10 is project totally funded by PLAAF. Saving cost is not the issue. Air superiority over ROCAF F-16 is the number one priority. Full digital FBW, composite, high thrust turbofan , canard layout for high speed, high attitude tight turn.

All these make J-10 has higher cost per unit but performance is guarantee.

How much does JF-17 BLK 3 and J-10C cost? Seems like both are having same Avionics and Weaponry.
Because when starting JF-17 is developed to fit Pakistan's needs

How different are Pakistan's requirements versus China's? Both are operating against India in similar conditions.

Also, the fact that Pakistan is buying J-10C now implies that J-10C indeed meets Pakistan's requirements.
 
How much does JF-17 BLK 3 and J-10C cost? Seems like both are having same Avionics and Weaponry.
Same avionics? Who told you that? J-10 are fitted with a more powerful KJL-10A AESA, 1200 t/r.
KJL-7A of JF-17 blk 3 are much smaller and has only less than 900 t/r. Same as the number of t/r used by Rafale.

And before another round of BS claiming European electronic are better than Chinese. What is the level of European semi-con level compare to Chinese? There is not even a single unit of European Supercomputer in top 10.

There is reason why China can put a rover on Mars while ESA and Russia combined join effort still trying to chase Chinese Mars feat.
 
If Pakistan is interested and invested J-10 project in 1981, maybe.

I understand but my question is why didn't Pakistan choose J-10B but went for JF-17 instead but now buying J-10C. That is where I am confused.
 

Back
Top Bottom