Islamic History & Archaeology

[Pinnacle]

Umayyad caliphate was One of the most "anti-shia" regime in history . In fact Shiism in history only gained ground as a form of moral resistance to the Ummayads and their demands ..

Except for Umer bin Abdulaziz , who is said to have given the controversial Bagh e Fadak back to the family of prophet and he was the one who put an end to the evil practice of cursing Ali r.a and his progeny from the pulpits of the mosques around the kingdom in Jumma prayers ...

Saying that Umayyads were Shia is like saying that Ayatullah Khomeini was a Wahabi

Hope that answers your question

thanks alot. i want to study history,facts and figures of the period, after the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) till Qarbala incident. please post some authentic links or articles if u have. thanks in advance

 

[M. Sarmad]

thanks alot. i want to study history,facts and figures of the period, after the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) till Qarbala incident. please post some authentic links or articles if u have. thanks in advance

Perfect Islamic Books: Tareekh e Masodi 1 of 2

One of the best books on history (sunni version) urdu translation , to start with

 

[RAMPAGE]

Umayyad caliphate was One of the most "anti-shia" regimes in history . In fact Shiism in history only gained ground as a form of moral resistance to the Ummayads and their demands ..

Except for Umer bin Abdulaziz , who is said to have given the controversial Bagh e Fadak back to the family of prophet and he was the one who put an end to the evil practice of cursing Ali r.a and his progeny from the pulpits of the mosques around the kingdom in Jumma prayers ...

Saying that Umayyads were Shia is like saying that Ayatullah Khomeini was a Wahabi

Hope that answers your question

Yes indeed and instead he added this ayah in the sermon :

إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْمُرُ بِٱلْعَدْلِ وَٱلْإِحْسَٰنِ وَإِيتَآئِ ذِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَيَنْهَىٰ عَنِ ٱلْفَحْشَآءِ وَٱلْمُنكَرِ وَٱلْبَغْىِ ۚ يَعِظُكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَذَكَّرُونَ

 

[Secur]

The answer seems to be very simple , They believe in different collections of Ahadith (sayings attributed to prophet pbuh) , often highly contradicting, and they follow different versions of the `same` Islamic History ...

I have always thought that the human fallacy , biases/perception differences , political reasons , cultural practices , errors in reporting and the time would have all played their role , because the current set of Hadiths are largely tried to be rationalized with alternate explanations or even going against the principal text at times , abrogating / cancelling / modifying / taking precedence / super imposing over the verses of Quran at instances because of their contradictory nature , discrepancies , visible historical and scientific mistakes , lack of rationality and common sense and Arabic culture tilt reasons .

@Armstrong If I tell you something , then you tell it to another five people , do you think it would remain the same ( in effect ) by the time it reaches other people through the five you told about it ? Neglecting the time and memory thing here .

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong If I tell you something , then you tell it to another five people , do you think it would remain the same ( in effect ) by the time it reaches other people through the five you told about it ? Neglecting the time and memory thing here .

Thats one of the reasons why I don't give canonical significance to the Hadhith !

 

[Secur]

Thats one of the reasons why I don't give canonical significance to the Hadhith !

The million dollar question is how could the God of Muhammad let his followers astray with such stuff if there's no religion after Islam because nearly all the Muslim world does that ? Is there an answer ?

P.S You never replied me on the other thread .

 

[Armstrong]

The million dollar question is how could the God of Muhammad let his followers astray with such stuff if there's no religion after Islam because nearly all the Muslim world does that ? Is there an answer ?

When did God led the Muslims astray - It ain't his fault if hes saying repeatedly that 'the Book' is enough for you & even an admonishment of the hadith within the Koran that Muslims continued to believe this !

My understanding is that the Muslim World needed to go through the period we are going through & have been going through for quite some time now to revitalized Islamic thought once more by questioning the official narrative & these periods of magnificence & intellectual degradation would be on & off business till the end of times !

P.S You never replied me on the other thread .

Of course I didn't reply to it because I dunno what to say !

 

[Secur]

When did God led the Muslims astray - It ain't his fault if hes saying repeatedly that 'the Book' is enough for you & even an admonishment of the hadith within the Koran that Muslims continued to believe this !

My dear friend , I never used the word " led " which would implicate that God deliberately wanted that , I said how he let his followers astray to the state where today almost entire Muslim world gives unprecedented importance to saying(s) collected hundreds of years after the death of Prophet , even over the principal text itself . I know the prohibition of even writing the words and practices of the Muhammad in the same Hadith . But even that has been superseded by some others to continue the show for political benefits .

 

[Armstrong]

My dear friend , I never used the word " led " which would implicate that God deliberately wanted that , I said how he let his followers astray to the state where today almost entire Muslim world gives unprecedented importance to saying(s) collected hundreds of years after the death of Prophet , even over the principal text itself . I know the prohibition of even writing the words and practices of the Muhammad in the same Hadith . But even that has been superseded by some others to continue the show for political benefits .

I would imagine its 'free-will' !

 

[Panther 57]

@Azlan Haider now i have one question for you..
were ummayads shia or sunni? if they were shia then how ibn hasham al-zuhri wrote the 1700 sunni ahadith on the direct orders of the abdul malik.?

except khalifa, Umer-e-sani " Umer bin Abdul Aziz " all the ummayyad reigns are controversial .

ummayads were not shias definitely.
@Azlan Haider @Secur @Armstrong @RAMPAGE

After going through this whole thread, which is very interesting and right to quite an extent. I observed that people are keen to do simple researches. This is one thread where I did not see much of conflicts, altercations and hot talks. Let me recommend two movies these have been made by Iran, but are not religious movies. These movies depict political scenarios and developments of those times. A must watch
1. Imam Ali
2. Mukhtarnama

Both these movies are available on DVDs and are also available in smaller episodes on the net.

 

[Pinnacle]

ummayads were not shias definitely.
@Azlan Haider @Secur @Armstrong @RAMPAGE

After going through this whole thread, which is very interesting and right to quite an extent. I observed that people are keen to do simple researches. This is one thread where I did not see much of conflicts, altercations and hot talks. Let me recommend two movies these have been made by Iran, but are not religious movies. These movies depict political scenarios and developments of those times. A must watch
1. Imam Ali
2. Mukhtarnama

Both these movies are available on DVDs and are also available in smaller episodes on the net.

yeah you are right .... it is very good thread if it is not derailed.. thanks by the way for movies i will surely watch it ...

 

[Secur]

After going through this whole thread, which is very interesting and right to quite an extent. I observed that people are keen to do simple researches. This is one thread where I did not see much of conflicts, altercations and hot talks.

That is because , mate , there aren't really any shortcuts here like the majority of the topics out there . You cant just come here and expect to get away with the usual jingoism and emotional talk .

 

[Resurrection5782]

The words شهيد شاهد شهدا which means MARTYR exist in QURAN totally 72 times , Martyrs in Karbala with Imam Hossein(pbuh) were 72 persons.
Ya Hossein(pbuh)...

اللهم عجل لويك الفرج...
اللهم اللعن اول ظالم ظلم حق محمد و آل محمد»؛ «إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُؤْذُونَ اللَّهَ وَ رَسُولَهُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي الدُّنْيا وَ الْآخِرَةِ»

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Alpha1 @jaibi @danish falcon @Jazzbot @Armstrong @Secur @RAMPAGE @Panther 57 @FaujHistorian @Pakistani Exile



Tracing the Roots of Religious Extremism by Dr. Mubarak Ali

 

[Pinnacle]

@Alpha1 @jaibi @danish falcon @Jazzbot @Armstrong @Secur @RAMPAGE @Panther 57 @FaujHistorian @Pakistani Exile



Tracing the Roots of Religious Extremism by Dr. Mubarak Ali

Excellent.. Really Nice Sharing @Azlan Haider