Is UAS- Global Developing ZF-1 Stealth UCAV for Pakistan?

[Philosopher]

Iran hasn't made such a drone.

Yes it has, Iran produced its Simorgh UCAV (based on the RQ-170 technology) years ago. It even used that UAV on attacking ISIS position a few years ago.

i think when iran has already made such drone it is not difficult for us to develop this uav

Strange logic. Iran also has made long range air defence systems, does that mean Pakistan can make them? Iran has been making UAV's since the 80's.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Yes it has, Iran produced its Simorgh UCAV (based on the RQ-170 technology) years ago. It even used that UAV on attacking ISIS position a few years ago.



Strange logic. Iran also has made long range air defence systems, does that mean Pakistan can make them? Iran has been making UAV's since the 80's.

Iranian tender is nothing more than a miniature silly system that will not work. Such designs have to be in sizes such as Taranis and Neuron, a miniature garbage powered by a single turbojet is useless.

 

[Philosopher]

Iranian tender is nothing more than a miniature silly system that will not work. Such designs have to be in sizes such as Taranis and Neuron, a miniature garbage powered by a single turbojet is useless.

You seem upset, perhaps calm down first if you want to be taken seriously. As for this UAV being a "miniature silly system that will not work", the Simorgh has actually been used in combat and it has the same dimensions as the RQ-170.

 

[That Guy]

Yes it has, Iran produced its Simorgh UCAV (based on the RQ-170 technology) years ago. It even used that UAV on attacking ISIS position a few years ago.

Neither the Simorgh, nor the RQ-170 are similar to the drone proposed.

This drone has more in common with the x-47b or the BAE Taranis drones.

All the drones that have been mentioned use a similar looking layout, but the first two are not the same as the last two. They're generations apart in both capability and technology.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

You seem upset, perhaps calm down first if you want to be taken seriously. As for this UAV being a "miniature silly system that will not work", the Simorgh has actually been used in combat and it has the same dimensions as the RQ-170.

Yes, maybe that's why it was never used again because it was an empty project. And what will I look sad for Iran? Do you think I'm going to be jealous of a useless mini turbojet that won't keep the prototype even for $ 1 million? It has been dropped because it has no invisibility feature and has never been used by america since it was thought to be ridiculous from the very beginning of the project. In no country does this stupid work, only some fools think the same vehicle with giant systems such as taranis and neuron with giant systems exceeding $ 100 million

 

[Philosopher]

Neither the Simorgh, nor the RQ-170 are similar to the drone proposed.

This drone has more in common with the x-47b or the BAE Taranis drones.

All the drones that have been mentioned use a similar looking layout, but the first two are not the same as the last two. They're generations apart in both capability and technology.

Why are they not similar? Although the RQ-170 was used as a spy UAV, its Iranian relative is used as a UCAV.

 

[ziaulislam]

I was browsing Facebook yesterday saw a picture (Posted below) that ZF-1 Viper Stealth UCAV is under development and someone wrote Pakistan is developing it under Project Azm. Than I further searched in Google and found a website UAS-Global.
According to this Image these are Technical Specifications of ZF-1 Viper. (In case You Can't see the Image above.)

Specifications

1. MTOW 16 Tons
2. Wing Span 18m
3. Payload 300kg
4. Altitude 30,000ft
5. Speed Mach 0.8
6. Range 500km

Capabilities

1. Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses
2. Deep Enemy Penetration Strike
3. Stealth, Low Radar Signature
4. Rapid Reconnaissance
5. 5- Electronic Warfare

Armament

1. Laser Guided Missiles
2. Precision Bombs

Future Capabilities

1. Air to Air Capability

According to this Website UAS-G is International Company and have one office in United Kingdom (address and numbers available on website) and One Office is in Karachi Pakistan (Address and numbers available)

When I explored Gallery section there are pictures of Pakistan Army as well.

So I am still Confused,

1. Is UAS-G a Pakistani Company? or a Western Company have a head office in Pakistan?
2. Is ZF-1 Viper Stealth UCAV is for Pakistan under Project Azm? Or this one is another Private Project for Pakistan by UAS-G ?

Experts Opinions Needed.

Note: I am reading this Forum since years and this is my First Thread, I am not an expert Just a Patriotic Pakistani. Ignore Grammar Mistakes. Thanks

Pakistani company possibly a front to get equipment needed..pretty much how we operated during nukes development

 

[Philosopher]

Yes, maybe that's why it was never used again because it was an empty project.

This makes no sense. You're talking as if Iran is in an active war where it is using different hardwares. The point is, it was used when it was needed. When did you want Iran to use it again exactly?

And what will I look sad for Iran? Do you think I'm going to be jealous of a useless mini turbojet that won't keep the prototype even for $ 1 million?

Those "useless" system in part wiped out 50% of the Saudi oil facility. You obviously have little insight into anything regarding how UAVs are being used in modern warfare.

It has been dropped because it has no invisibility feature
and has never been used by america since it was thought to be ridiculous from the very beginning of the project. In no country does this stupid work, only some fools think the same vehicle with giant systems such as taranis and neuron with giant systems exceeding $ 100 million

This part of your comment makes little sense. What has been dropped?

 

[That Guy]

Why are they not similar? Although the RQ-170 was used as a spy UAV, its Iranian relative is used as a UCAV.

A number of reasons, the rq-170 was primarily made as a spy drone, not for combat. As the Iranian drone is based on the RQ-170, we can expect that the combat capabilities will be meh at best, because the drone was never originally designed for active combat purposes.

Another reason is the stealth aspect. The RQ-170 has outdated stealth aspects to it, primarily relying on its shape mainly to reduce its radar signature. It did not, for example, have a stealth coating. Its electronic warfare capabilities were also pretty bad, considering Iran managed to hack it.

The drone that's being proposed UAS, and I don't think its actually real, is quite literally the complete opposite of the things I mentioned. It's a combat drone, meant for combat missions first. It's being proposed to use modern stealth capabilities. While its stealth will allow it to be used as a tool to spy with, it will supposedly take a back seat to its combat role.


Fyi, I don't think the drone is real, just a proposal.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

This makes no sense. You're talking as if Iran is in an active war where it is using different hardwares. The point is, it was used when it was needed. When did you want Iran to use it again exactly?



Those "useless" system in part wiped out 50% of the Saudi oil facility. You obviously have little insight into anything regarding how UAVs are being used in modern warfare.



This part of your comment makes little sense. What has been dropped?

These claims, funny and crap like the event to shouting the CH4, Turkey's laser gun. Those facilities were hit by cruise missiles, you just want to admit that, not with your "stealth" uavs

This makes no sense. You're talking as if Iran is in an active war where it is using different hardwares. The point is, it was used when it was needed. When did you want Iran to use it again exactly?

What I mean was America, not Iran.

This part of your comment makes no sense. What has been dropped?

I said that you would launch a simple turbo-jet uav that could be manufactured within 1 week as if it was a vehicle with very confidential information and saw it at the level of neuron and taranis.

 

[Philosopher]

A number of reasons, the rq-170 was primarily made as a spy drone, not for combat. As the Iranian drone is based on the RQ-170, we can expect that the combat capabilities will be meh at best, because the drone was never originally designed for active combat purposes.

When you say combat, what exactly are you referring to here? Why do you think the aerodynamics of the RQ, do not allow it to perform combat role such as BVRAA or Air to ground roles? These will be the main role of such a system. I don't see any limitation in the aerodynamics of the RQ. These stealthy UAVs all share similar layout.

Another reason is the stealth aspect. The RQ-170 has outdated stealth aspects to it, primarily relying on its shape mainly to reduce its radar signature. It did not, for example, have a stealth coating.

This is conjecture. We simply do not even enough information regarding the RQ-170 to comment on its stealth characteristics.

Its electronic warfare capabilities were also pretty bad, considering Iran managed to hack it.

Even modern UAV's are prone to such a thing, its means little to be honest. It's one of the achilles heel of UAVs at this time.

The drone that's being proposed UAS, and I don't think its actually real, is quite literally the complete opposite of the things I mentioned. It's a combat drone, meant for combat missions first. It's being proposed to use modern stealth capabilities. While its stealth will allow it to be used as a tool to spy with, it will supposedly take a back seat to its combat role. Fyi, I don't think the drone is real, just a proposal.

What's important is for Pakistan to start getting into the mindset of mass making UAVs. In Iran for example, even universities make UAVs. It does not matter what level you start at, get enough people and industries involved, and that will greatly help.

These claims, funny and crap like the event to shouting the CH4, Turkey's laser gun. Those facilities were hit by cruise missiles, you just want to admit that, not with your "stealth" uavs

You seem to have a habit of making unsubstantiated statements. At least do your search prior to replying. Those facilities were damaged mostly because of these UAVs:

What I mean was America, not Iran.

America did not drop anything. It is simply making next gen version.

I said that you would launch a simple turbo-jet uav that could be manufactured within 1 week as if it was a vehicle with very confidential information and saw it at the level of neuron and taranis.

The simorgh uav is based on the RQ-170. There is nothing "simple" about the Simorgh. No one is talking about the smaller turbo-jet UAVs such as Saegheh. Those smaller UAVs have their own very important purpose of swarm attacks etc. Iran is not producing anything at the level of Neuron yet, but its Simorgh is a big step towards that.

 

[That Guy]

When you say combat, what exactly are you referring to here? Why do you think the aerodynamics of the RQ, do not allow it to perform combat role such as BVRAA or Air to ground roles? These will be the main role of such a system. I don't see any limitation in the aerodynamics of the RQ. These stealthy UAVs all share similar layout.

Let's put it like this, it's like installing iOS on an android device.

The device is perfectly capable of running iOS, but it was never meant for that, and could very well run into major issues.

Same way here, while the rq170 is capable of being used in combat roles, it's list of munitions it can carry, and how much is limited due to the fact it is primarily used as a spy drone.

Another example is attack air to air missiles on a predator drone, it's technically able to, but it was never designed for it. The one time this was tried (during the us invasion of iraq), it was shot down quite quickly.

This is conjecture. We simply do not even enough information regarding the RQ-170 to comment on its stealth characteristics.

Conjecture is used when there is publicly available information. I'm using what we do know.

Even modern UAV's are prone to such a thing, its means little to be honest. It's one of the achilles heel of UAVs at this time.

I think we should clarify something here, when you say modern, you mean current generation, right?

In that case, the drone being proposed is a next gen drone.

What's important is for Pakistan to start getting into the mindset of mass making UAVs. In Iran for example, even universities make UAVs. It does not matter what level you start at, get enough people and industries involved, and that will greatly help.

Pakistan has been lagging behind. It has the Burraq UCAV, and the licence produced Falco, but other than that, it is far behind nations like Iran, Turkey, and Israel, even though Pakistan has a far greater need for it than the three mentioned.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I hate to be that guy over and over again but please this is not something real or serious. I can tell you this was some incompetent ex-PAF engineers trying to swindle a private company that mostly imports quadcopters. We don't need threads on this. Please.

I met the team too (and took the original photo everyone's sharing). It was sad seeing the young engineers there getting taken for a ride.

 

[Philosopher]

Let's put it like this, it's like installing iOS on an android device.


The device is perfectly capable of running iOS, but it was never meant for that, and could very well run into major issues.

As long as its "perfectly capable of running" the function, then it does not matter what it was used for initially. The point is, can it get the job done adequately? We can then develop the system from there.

Same way here, while the rq170 is capable of being used in combat roles, it's list of munitions it can carry, and how much is limited due to the fact it is primarily used as a spy drone.

Unless you have a stealth system that size of the B-2, then all these stealthy platform like F-35 etc have limited munition carry abilities. Unfortunately that's the downsize of these internal bays.

Another example is attack air to air missiles on a predator drone, it's technically able to, but it was never designed for it. The one time this was tried (during the us invasion of iraq), it was shot down quite quickly.

You can develop system for new roles. Like we've discussed, as long as the platform can deliver on that function, then it's fine.

Conjecture is used when there is publicly available information. I'm using what we do know.

Given what little information is available on the RQ-170 in terms of OSINT, then any comment on its stealth will be conjecture at best. That's what I meant.

I think we should clarify something here, when you say modern, you mean current generation, right?

Yes, for simplicity of discussion, we can use current generation.

In that case, the drone being proposed is a next gen drone.

At this moment in time, to my mind there are two potential ways to counter hacking. One is use of quantum communication (we're not there yet) and fully autonomous system (again not fully there yet). I am not sure what this Pakistani system will utilise.

Pakistan has been lagging behind. It has the Burraq UCAV, and the licence produced Falco, but other than that, it is far behind nations like Iran, Turkey, and Israel, even though Pakistan has a far greater need for it than the three mentioned.

Nations like Iran and Turkey may be ahead, but I think the gap can easily be closed by Pakistan, especially if it get TOT from China. I am impressed by Iran's use of UAVs, but I don't see anything in terms of technology that is that much ahead. If Pakistan feels the need for these system, then we will see great development there. No question about it.

 

[That Guy]

As long as its "perfectly capable of running" the function, then it does not matter what it was used for initially. The point is, can it get the job done adequately? We can then develop the system from there.

But....that wasn't the original point.

Unless you have a stealth system that size of the B-2, then all these stealthy platform like F-35 etc have limited munition carry abilities. Unfortunately that's the downsize of these internal bays.

Not exactly. I meant, even for the size of the rq170, it's still not able to carry a lot of ordinance.

You can develop system for new roles. Like we've discussed, as long as the platform can deliver on that function, then it's fine.

Sure, but that's not what's being offered, nor was that the original point being made.

You said that the rq170 and this drone are similar in role and capability, I disagreed.

Given what little information is available on the RQ-170 in terms of OSINT, then any comment on its stealth will be conjecture at best. That's what I meant.

Sure, but that's true for everything. Are we not allowed to speculate with what little information we DO have?

Yes, for simplicity of discussion, we can use current generation.

At this moment in time, to my mind there are two potential ways to counter hacking. One is use of quantum communication (we're not there yet) and fully autonomous system (again not fully there yet). I am not sure what this Pakistani system will utilise.

A fully autonomous system wouldn't really counter hacking, and I'm not super knowledgeable on quantum computers, so I won't speak on that front.

My point was that the system was, according to the Iranians, relatively easy to hack. It honestly looks like the US half assed its electronic counter measures, because they were confident that the drone would never be seen on radar.

Nations like Iran and Turkey may be ahead, but I think the gap can easily be closed by Pakistan, especially if it get TOT from China. I am impressed by Iran's use of UAVs, but I don't see anything in terms of technology that is that much ahead. If Pakistan feels the need for these system, then we will see great development there. No question about it.

Which I agree with. The gap can be closed, but right now, Pakistan has bigger priorities.

I still don't think this drone is anything more than a concept.