What's new

Is Russia's ‘Deadliest Tank’ Cheaper Than European And US Armor?

Zarvan

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
54,470
Reaction score
87
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
T-14_Armata_Tank.jpg

The T-14 armored platform is cheaper than Western analogs, the Russian defense industry claims

by Franz-Stefan Gady

Russia’s third-generation T-14 main battle tank (MBT), an armored vehicle based on the ‘Armata’ universal chassis system, is purportedly cheaper than European and U.S. third-generation models, the CEO of Uralvagonzavod—the largest tank maker in the world—claimed on June 16, according to TASS.

“Unfortunately, I can’t specify it [the price]. This is not my secret; this is the secret of the Defense Ministry. The only thing I can say is that this is today the cheapest armored vehicle, if we take our potential competitors in Europe and America,” Oleg Siyenko said.

The Armata universal chassis system—first revealed in 2015 during the May 9 Moscow Victory Day Parade on Red Square– is a platform for over a dozen different tracked vehicles, including a self-propelled artillery gun, an armored military engineering vehicle, and an armored personal carrier. Perhaps, the two most prominent Armata platforms are the T-14 MBT and T-15 new heavy infantry fighting vehicle (IFV).

As I explained previously (See: “Putin’s New ‘Wunderwaffe:’ The World’s Deadliest Tank?”): “The Russian military wants to replace 70 percent of its armor with new tracked vehicles based on the Armata universal chassis system, mustering out older T-72 and T-90 MBT models.” By 2020, Uralvagonzavod plans to produce 2,300 T-14 Armata models.

Whether the T-14 or T-15 will be cheaper than Western counterparts is impossible to verify independently. However, Russian armor has generally been cheaper in comparison to European and U.S. models for a number of reasons including different manufacturing methods, the advantage of economies of scale, and cheaper materials and technologies used during the production process.

Perhaps, one reason for Siyenko’s remarks is to assuage Russian fears that the T-14 will drain the Russia’s defense budget. As I explained in early 2016 (See: “Will 3D Printing Speedup Production of Russia’s ‘Deadliest Tank’?”):

[T]he steep price of the Armata–each tank purportedly costs about $8 million—has led the Russian military and the Russian public question the rationale behind mass producing such an overpriced vehicle. During the rehearsal for the 2015 Victory Day parade on Red Square in Moscow, bystanders supposedly made the joke: “The Armata truly has unprecedented destructive power; a battalion can destroy the entire Russian budget!”

According to some uncorroborated media reports, however, the price tag for the T-14 MBT could eventually fall to around 250 million rubles ($3.1 million) per unit or below once serial production begins. Indeed in March 2016, the CEO of Russian Technologies State Corporation (Rostec), Russia’s largest defense industrial conglomerate, claimed that T-14 is already in serial production. The head of Rostec, however, did not reveal the per-unit price of the MBT.

Nevertheless, a $3.1 million price tag for Russia’s first post-Soviet MBT, would indeed be substantially cheaper than European models with Germany’s Leopard 2a6 MBT costing around $6.7 million, and the U.S.-made Abrams M1 MBT about $6 million.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/is-russia-deadliest-tank-cheaper-than-european-and-us-armor/
 
if it's capabilities are good as everyone makes it out to be...then $8 million a pop isn't all that bad.

especially if you compare it to even more expensive MBT like the K2 Black Panther and Type 10
 
According to some uncorroborated media reports, however, the price tag for the T-14 MBT could eventually fall to around 250 million rubles ($3.1 million) per unit or below once serial production begins. Indeed in March 2016, the CEO of Russian Technologies State Corporation (Rostec), Russia’s largest defense industrial conglomerate, claimed that T-14 is already in serial production. The head of Rostec, however, did not reveal the per-unit price of the MBT.

Only once productions starts running into the thoudends. Which is doubtful.

Nevertheless, a $3.1 million price tag for Russia’s first post-Soviet MBT, would indeed be substantially cheaper than European models with Germany’s Leopard 2a6 MBT costing around $6.7 million, and the U.S.-made Abrams M1 MBT about $6 million.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/is-russia-deadliest-tank-cheaper-than-european-and-us-armor/

Which therefor makes this a false comparison as the newest Leo2a6 and Abrams versions aren't and won't be build in such numbers.


Here's one such 'uncorroberated media report' (I believe a Russian version of 'Popular Mechanics' of September 2015:
http://www.popmech.ru/weapon/211141..._campaign=20150926_weekly&utm_content=title_5

translate.google.com >
Named the price of a tank "Armata"
The tank "Armata" made a noise in the press during his appearance at the Victory Parade, and now officially called the machine and cost perspective.

portal rg.ru informs that according to information coming from the CEO "Uralvagonzavod" Oleg Siyenko cost of a new Russian tank T-14 "Armata" is a little over 250 million rubles (at the current rate of about $ 3.7 million). For comparison, the price of the M1 Abrams tank US can reach up to seven million dollars.

So, this suggests the CURRENT (=sepembet 2015) cost of T-14 is 3.7 million dollars.

Production per 2015 was in the tenths

Exports are not yet existent, although the T-14 has reportedly been presented to e.g. Egypt and Russia claims the interest from China (which builds it own tanks), India (which builds its own tanks) and other 'traditional partners in South-East Asia'.

New equipment, like the Armata Universal Combat Platform, Bumerang and Kurganets-25 will be equipped from 2015 and replace many old tanks, BMPs, BTRs like T-72, T-90, BMP-1/2/3, BTR-80 in active service. Funding for new equipment has greatly risen in recent years, and the Russian defence industry continues to develop new weapons systems for the Ground Forces.However, for the Ground Forces, while overall funding has dramatically increased, this does not guarantee that large numbers of new systems will enter service. In the case of vehicles, as the references show, examination of the actual number of vehicles planned to be bought yearly (about 200 MBTs and IFVs/APCs) means that for a force of about thirty divisions, each with about 300–400 MBTs and IFVs, it might take around 30 years to re-equip all formations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces#Equipment
 
This would be the right time for Pakistan to approach the Russians for ToT of this tank. The geopolitical environment is positive for Pakistan to be heard by the Russians.
 
Tell me, why would the Russian give Pakistan (of all places) ToT on this tank?


You tell me why not? Specially now when Russia is feeling lonely after its honeymoon with India has been terminated by Modi and his US mentors.
 
You tell me why not? Specially now when Russia is feeling lonely after its honeymoon with India has been terminated by Modi and his US mentors.
HOneymoon? Man, India and Russia have had defence relations since the mid 1950s. There is so much Russian gear still in Indian service that even if India starts buying big ticket items from the US now, Russia is proablby still the major supplier of military gear. Pakistan could buy/co-produce a few hundred Armata in the most optimistic scenario. With India, you might talk thousends (consider 1259 T90, 2400 T72, 1800 BMP2 )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Russia_relations#Military_relationship

Likewise China.

Why would Russia offer ToT on its top of the line armor to Pakistan? What can Pakistan offer in return that might be worth such a deal for the Russians. Russia ' feeling lonely' is insufficient motivation.
 
Last edited:
HOneymoon? Man, India and Russia have had defence relations since the mid 1950s. There is so much Russian gear still in Indian service that even if India starts buying big ticket items from the US now, Russia is proablby still the major supplier of military gear. Pakistan could buy/co-produce a few hundred Armata in the most optimistic scenario. With India, you might talk thousends (consider 1259 T90, 2400 T72, 1800 BMP2 )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Russia_relations#Military_relationship

Likewise China.

Why would Russia offer ToT on its top of the line armor to Pakistan? What can Pakistan offer in return that might be worth such a deal for the Russians. Russia ' feeling lonely' is insufficient motivation.


Some of the remarks we get from armchair strategists on these columns leave me completely stunned for a few moments. And then the guffaws come in waves......
 
HOneymoon? Man, India and Russia have had defence relations since the mid 1950s. There is so much Russian gear still in Indian service that even if India starts buying big ticket items from the US now, Russia is proablby still the major supplier of military gear. Pakistan could buy/co-produce a few hundred Armata in the most optimistic scenario. With India, you might talk thousends (consider 1259 T90, 2400 T72, 1800 BMP2 )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Russia_relations#Military_relationship

Likewise China.

Why would Russia offer ToT on its top of the line armor to Pakistan? What can Pakistan offer in return that might be worth such a deal for the Russians. Russia ' feeling lonely' is insufficient motivation.

I don't see any big ticket defence items coming from Russia in near future for India. All the projects where there are western alternatives; Russia is simply not making the cut in what is now "relatively" transparent procedures

I agree that few items like nuclear subs and air defence systems where western alternative is either not present or not available for India - Russia will maintain it's edge till the time Indian's dont develop enough to make a domestic version.

Keeping all this in mind Russia is now looking towards bundling it's other items with ones India really wants like Frigates with Nuclear Subs, Jets with S-400s and so on.

However the fact remains that Russian arm sales will take a significant hit in mid-term horizon from India and China thus forcing them to look towards alternatives buyers and at times give concessions just to keep their arms industry alive. In this context a substantial order for new armor platforms by Pakistan may be accompanied by offers of ToT.
 
Some of the remarks we get from armchair strategists on these columns leave me completely stunned for a few moments. And then the guffaws come in waves......
What a nice comment. If you have a different point of view, or any particular points, please state these, so we can discuss it. Otherwise this is simply a pointless response @Joe Shearer.

Good day.
 
You tell me why not? Specially now when Russia is feeling lonely after its honeymoon with India has been terminated by Modi and his US mentors.

Pak don't need tot of armata nor Pak should purchase armata. Pakistan has Al Khalid MBT and AL Khalid 3 is in development and I am pretty much sure that it would be a quite powerful tank. News about Al Khalid 3 made me optimistic that it would be a mainstream tank with a powerpack of 1500 hp.

Instead of suggesting us you bengalis shall approach russia for armata tot or armata tanks because your army badly need something new
 
Tell me, why would the Russian give Pakistan (of all places) ToT on this tank?

Because who needs logic when you have delusions of grandeur on your side.


It is not just about Russia-India relations who despite whatever "not so bright" members think but also the monies involved. A simple calculation will show any sane person the scope of defence deals between Russia & India vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Most potential deals with Russia are in tune of billions of dollars, even the VSHORAD tender. What Pakistan offers is a market with mouth watering orders of 4 Mi-35 and 6 Mi-17.
 
Pak don't need tot of armata nor Pak should purchase armata. Pakistan has Al Khalid MBT and AL Khalid 3 is in development and I am pretty much sure that it would be a quite powerful tank. News about Al Khalid 3 made me optimistic that it would be a mainstream tank with a powerpack of 1500 hp.

Instead of suggesting us you bengalis shall approach russia for armata tot or armata tanks because your army badly need something new

Bengali Muslims have resigned to the idea that there has been so much infiltration by the Enemy, we cannot fight him with the military. Deceit, fraudulence and conspiracy saw us loose in Palassy, on 15 Aug 1975 and in Peelkhana. As always in our history, the total people shall fight the Enemy. Molotov Cocktails, not Armata tanks are needed by us.
 
Bengali Muslims have resigned to the idea that there has been so much infiltration by the Enemy, we cannot fight him with the military. Deceit, fraudulence and conspiracy saw us loose in Palassy, on 15 Aug 1975 and in Peelkhana. As always in our history, the total people shall fight the Enemy. Molotov Cocktails, not Armata tanks are needed by us.

Is that the reason you are trying hard to induct submarines, military equipment?
Is that the reason bangladesh has increased its defense budget by 20% ?
 
Is that the reason you are trying hard to induct submarines, military equipment?
Is that the reason bangladesh has increased its defense budget by 20% ?

The military needs to be kept happy and exercised by new inductions of eqpt. Moreover, there is money to be made in such acquisitions. The subs are yet to join. And they are pretty obsolete. The last military backed govt had planned a S African designed sub to be built in Turkey with S Korean input. The crew were already in Turkey for training. Also with the Turks negotiations were going on involving Americans for transfer of some F-16s. The current pro-India govt has quashed all those plans including procuring the balance two regts of MBT-2000. Offensive eqpt like top class fighters, subs, tanks etc are not allowed.
 
Back
Top Bottom