Is it war against Islam?

[firefight]

It must be coincidence the last few wars USA has been involved in all involved muslims countries Somalia,Iraq(twice),Afghanistan,Lebanon/Hezbollah via Israel and in the future Iran. Also the war on terror is focused only on muslims that must also be coincidence
and the western media only likes to show chaos in muslim countries, when there are
terrorists,civil wars,military takeovers all over the world. It is war against muslims. Why would they make claims of weapons of mass destruction prove there are none and still
continue with a false war? Why is Iran constantly threatened? No muslims countries
should defend themselves that's what the west wants.

 

[MastanKhan]

Neo,

Thankyou my friend. On the day of judgement---Allah will throw back every thing at the muslim. You performed salat to show off---you kept the fast to show off---you performed haj to show off---you read the kalmah but still your heart was not in it---even the zakat---that was deducted forcefully by the pakistani govt from your bank account---you went to jihad of war for a thrill kill---you wanted to sacrifice your life---but that was a show off---so what is left for you the muslim----

You will be surprised know---you stood up against the strong to help the weak---even if you could not stand up--atleast you had it in your heart to condemn the act---you thought well of the poor and treated them as equals---you didnot care about the bad smell coming from their sweaty clothes and hugged them with compassion---you went out of your way and helped someone in need---nobody saw you do the deed---only you know---there is no glory in it---but then you let your Lord be the judge---someone was in need and you helped---you gave them money and material and lots of people saw you do that---nothing wrong with that either---you stepped upto the plate and did the right thing---sometimes the right hand is giving and the left hand knows that as well---nothing wrong with that scenario either---it is to put the left hand to shame for not doing part of the deed.Give, give, give---behind people's back, in front of people, in the day time or in the dark of the night---there is no bigger JIHAD than parting away with the material things that you hold dear to yourself.

Why do you want to give behind your back---so that nobody knows who you are giving to---but then why you want to give in front of everyone---so that others can compete with you and start giving more---to create a momentum---to get things into motion---so either way it is a win win situation for the poor and the needy---

A child is molested in your neighbourhood---instead of putting the child to shame---you put the criminals to shame---a girl is raped---she does not have to be killed to save the honor of the family---but rather the criminals are persecuted---there are a thousand and one examples of JIHAD that I can give that supercedes the JIHAD of violence.

Mujahideen---you have another misconception---you cannot live the life of the Prophet----you can't even come close---but then the threshold level has been changed---who is going to be the judge and who is going to be the jury to make you a momin---it is stated that " a day will come when people are having sex in the open in public and a person will say to them---please do it behind a partiton" at that time that individual would be the momin---You see there is no standard definition of a MOMIN----the definition of MOMIN lives in an ever changing environment---what you had to do to be a MOMIN 1400 years ago, those standards don't hold good anymore---the bars of conscience have changed for the worse forever.

You need to find a different teacher.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It must be coincidence the last few wars USA has been involved in all involved muslims countries Somalia,Iraq(twice),Afghanistan,Lebanon/Hezbollah via Israel and in the future Iran. Also the war on terror is focused only on muslims that must also be coincidence
and the western media only likes to show chaos in muslim countries, when there are
terrorists,civil wars,military takeovers all over the world. It is war against muslims. Why would they make claims of weapons of mass destruction prove there are none and still
continue with a false war? Why is Iran constantly threatened? No muslims countries
should defend themselves that's what the west wants.

It must be coincidence the last few wars USA has been involved in all involved muslims countries Somalia,Iraq(twice),Afghanistan,Lebanon/Hezbollah via Israel and in the future Iran. Also the war on terror is focused only on muslims that must also be coincidence
and the western media only likes to show chaos in muslim countries, when there are
terrorists,civil wars,military takeovers all over the world. It is war against muslims. Why would they make claims of weapons of mass destruction prove there are none and still
continue with a false war? Why is Iran constantly threatened? No muslims countries
should defend themselves that's what the west wants.

It is not a War against Islam.

It is a war that is aimed at promoting American national interests.

There are many reasons, but let's look at some beyond the myopic Islam prism that seems to have clouded your thoughts.

After the demise of USSR and the Cold War, the US was left as the only superpower in the world.

The US has seized the opportunity to ensure that it builds a position in the world that is unassailable for a considerable period of time. One should read the Defence Policy Guidelines and the National Energy Policy to comprehend the essence of US policy.

A bit of education would dispel the myopic view that the US has embarked on a War on Islam.

Osama provided the opportunity and the US seized it.

Oil engines the world economy, industries and the military. Oil reserves are depleting. He who control the Oil, controls the world. It is the most important of strategic inputs.

And where is the maximum oil found? Middle East. Which are the nations in the Middle East that have oil? Moslem countries including Iran. Are they friendly with the US? None except Saudi Arabia. That is why the US does not target the Saudis, inspite of Osama and the Wahhabis who are in the forefront of exporting terrorism and because the Saudi King kowtows to the Americans!

Now, why was Iraq the target, even though Saddam was hardly a true Moslem, who suppressed both the Sunnis and the Shias.

Check the map. It is in the centre of the Middle East. Occupation of the centre would allow action on all sides of the Middle East. It is as simple as that and what is more, it has the largest reserve of “sweet oil” and second largest of oilfields in the world. By occupying the second largest oil fields in the world, the OPEC cartel could also be broken and oil prices controlled as per the US requirement.

Why Iran? To prevent either the Sunnis or Shia have any ascendancy in the Middle East and to keep the rivalry going so that they do not form one single Islamic bloc by burying their historical animosity. That Iraq is Shia majority and so is Iran is not a very comfortable situation for either the US or the Sunni Arabs and more so, since they control a sizeable amount of oil and gas of the world.

Why Afghanistan and Pakistan (though Pakistan is not in the US ambit in this context)? If one reads the National Intelligence Estimates, one would realise that the European industry is facing stagnation and the new oil guzzlers would be India and China. Therefore, whoever controls the supply of oil to these two can also strangulate them or else tweak them to agree to US terms. And both are growing fast and that does not auger well for anyone who wishes to control the world.

Therefore, it is essential to ensure that there is oil supply to these two countries but controlled by the US. In this context, the TAP is the answer. But the TAP can only flow through Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is why both are of interest to the US. In this context, the US opposition to the IPI can be understood.

It is time that quite a few of you do some serious reading , preferably not in the vernacular since they, well most, will only parrot the views that you are now exhibiting. Time you rid yourself of your myopic view of the world with you Islam and Pakistan centric glasses so that you can view the world event more pragmatically and fathom the ground realities. It is also time to rid yourself of your paranoia and thus be seized with the irrational persecution complex!

It will do you and the world a world of good!

 

[mujahideen]

Neo,

Thankyou my friend. On the day of judgement---Allah will throw back every thing at the muslim. You performed salat to show off---you kept the fast to show off---you performed haj to show off---you read the kalmah but still your heart was not in it---even the zakat---that was deducted forcefully by the pakistani govt from your bank account---you went to jihad of war for a thrill kill---you wanted to sacrifice your life---but that was a show off---so what is left for you the muslim----

You will be surprised know---you stood up against the strong to help the weak---even if you could not stand up--atleast you had it in your heart to condemn the act---you thought well of the poor and treated them as equals---you didnot care about the bad smell coming from their sweaty clothes and hugged them with compassion---you went out of your way and helped someone in need---nobody saw you do the deed---only you know---there is no glory in it---but then you let your Lord be the judge---someone was in need and you helped---you gave them money and material and lots of people saw you do that---nothing wrong with that either---you stepped upto the plate and did the right thing---sometimes the right hand is giving and the left hand knows that as well---nothing wrong with that scenario either---it is to put the left hand to shame for not doing part of the deed.Give, give, give---behind people's back, in front of people, in the day time or in the dark of the night---there is no bigger JIHAD than parting away with the material things that you hold dear to yourself.

Why do you want to give behind your back---so that nobody knows who you are giving to---but then why you want to give in front of everyone---so that others can compete with you and start giving more---to create a momentum---to get things into motion---so either way it is a win win situation for the poor and the needy---

A child is molested in your neighbourhood---instead of putting the child to shame---you put the criminals to shame---a girl is raped---she does not have to be killed to save the honor of the family---but rather the criminals are persecuted---there are a thousand and one examples of JIHAD that I can give that supercedes the JIHAD of violence.

Mujahideen---you have another misconception---you cannot live the life of the Prophet----you can't even come close---but then the threshold level has been changed---who is going to be the judge and who is going to be the jury to make you a momin---it is stated that " a day will come when people are having sex in the open in public and a person will say to them---please do it behind a partiton" at that time that individual would be the momin---You see there is no standard definition of a MOMIN----the definition of MOMIN lives in an ever changing environment---what you had to do to be a MOMIN 1400 years ago, those standards don't hold good anymore---the bars of conscience have changed for the worse forever.

You need to find a different teacher.

The first part of your statement I agree with. You are also right when you say that we cant even come close to the Prophet, it just cant happen and it will never happen. What I said was try to live like the Prophet, by that I mean try to live the way he did. Lets be realistic, he lived in a time when compared to today is the stone age. Now it is true we live in an ever changing environment but Islam is religion made till the day of Judgement. You say " a day will come when people are having sex in the open in public and a person will say to them---please do it behind a partiton." Now anyone can call them self a Momineen, that doesn't make them a true believer of God, it is up to God to decide who is a Momineen, not for me to say I am a Momineen or you are a Momineen. Now this thing about the sex, believe me no matter how mush the world changes that person who is doing this thing will never be called a Momineen, This is one person I can say will never be called a true believer because what he is doing is against Islam and will always be against Islam. To say he will be called a Momineen and still be allowed to commit such a sinful act is just stupid. Now you also say I need a new teacher, I say to you and everyone else I dont need a teacher, no one needs a teacher. We need to be our own teachers, by that I mean read the Quran, it has everything, I ask please read it once and you will see no matter how mush the world has changed Islam doesn't need to be changed. It is in its final till the day of judgement. Now as strong as a supporter of President Musharraf as I am, one thing which I dont support him doing is liberating and secularizing Pakistani society. He says Islam needs to go through an Enlightenment, he doesn't realize Islam is already Enlighten and every rule in Islam is made for a reason. Today when I turn on the T.V. we see men and women hughing almost to the extend that they are about to make out. It is true Pakistan was created as a secular state and believe me I think it should stay secular forever but these kinds of things aren't even in our culture. This is not allowed in Islam, no matter how much the times change. Back then they said no sex before marriage nowadays sex before marriage is a must, and in your life at least try it with 5 different women. Now I ask you can we live without sex or not. if Islam says no sex before marriage then why do we commit this sin, is it necessary, but the excuse is times have changed. Actually its not time that has changed but our needs.
Now you might think by some of my statement that I consider myself some sort of Alim, Momineen, believe me I dont even come close. I personally am a very liberal person, but I know what is allowed in Islam and what isn't, but I still do it. I would give you an example, during Isha today what was I doing, I was watching T.V. knowing full well it was time for prayer, but I didn't, why because I was watching T.V. and didn't want to be disturbed. Their are five prayers in a day, I can say that cant remember the last time I prayed back to back. You see my needs have changed not Islam. Islam cant be changed, it has limitations for everything. Islam is common sense, like I said I am no scholar but know right from wrong.
Now talking about change. Originally the Jews got married because of money. Christens got married for beauty. Muslims got married because of family, but today we get married for the beauty and money. Now I am not saying this is wrong believe me I want to get married to a good looking girl. But again why do Muslims focus on the family so much. The reason is it is the family who has raised the girl and thought her the family ways, if the family is no good the girl is probably no good, she has no family manners.
Now again getting back to change. Change in imminent, it is bound to happen but somethings dont need to be changed. I ask you please read the Koran, and you will see everything which is going on in the world today is in the Koran. In the Koran it says a time will come when children disrespect their parents, when Muslims will be Muslims only by name, a time when beauty and money will become important, a time when all over the world Muslims will be getting beat. That time has come. I would say I probably am guilty of doing all those things Islam has warned us about.
Getting back to our original argument about waging Jihad. Just 20 years ago a Jihad meant fighting didn't it. The advertisments all over the world told people to go fight for Islam. Now as I have said I agree with you when you said that we must first clean ourselves of our bad deeds, I agree with you but I wouldn't call that Jihad. I would call it being a true Momineen. A Momineen is someone who believes and if he believes he will surely be on the right path. We cant fight for Islam if we ourselves are not true believers, only when we think and have total faith in God can we go out and fight for Islam. But we mustn't stop on ourselves alone, we must bring others on the right path and spread the word everywhere. Again going back 20 years. America and the so-called free world told us we needed to fight for Islam. Now today when they need to change the meaning of this word Jihad they have. They say Jihad cant be waged ever again. Wow they go back and forth if it was 1980 everyone would agree with me that Jihad means to fight, but today 2008 they say Jihad is something else.
Honestly I dont know if I am right or wrong. You could be right and I could be wrong. I have only shared with you what I have heard and read. But I can tell you one thing I have tremendous faith in Allah. Like I said I dont know if I am right, I would suggest to you and also a suggestion i give myself is read the Quran. But dont just read it examine it.

 

[mujahideen]

It is not a War against Islam.

It is a war that is aimed at promoting American national interests.

There are many reasons, but let's look at some beyond the myopic Islam prism that seems to have clouded your thoughts.

After the demise of USSR and the Cold War, the US was left as the only superpower in the world.

The US has seized the opportunity to ensure that it builds a position in the world that is unassailable for a considerable period of time. One should read the Defence Policy Guidelines and the National Energy Policy to comprehend the essence of US policy.

A bit of education would dispel the myopic view that the US has embarked on a War on Islam.

Osama provided the opportunity and the US seized it.

Oil engines the world economy, industries and the military. Oil reserves are depleting. He who control the Oil, controls the world. It is the most important of strategic inputs.

And where is the maximum oil found? Middle East. Which are the nations in the Middle East that have oil? Moslem countries including Iran. Are they friendly with the US? None except Saudi Arabia. That is why the US does not target the Saudis, inspite of Osama and the Wahhabis who are in the forefront of exporting terrorism and because the Saudi King kowtows to the Americans!

Now, why was Iraq the target, even though Saddam was hardly a true Moslem, who suppressed both the Sunnis and the Shias.

Check the map. It is in the centre of the Middle East. Occupation of the centre would allow action on all sides of the Middle East. It is as simple as that and what is more, it has the largest reserve of “sweet oil” and second largest of oilfields in the world. By occupying the second largest oil fields in the world, the OPEC cartel could also be broken and oil prices controlled as per the US requirement.

Why Iran? To prevent either the Sunnis or Shia have any ascendancy in the Middle East and to keep the rivalry going so that they do not form one single Islamic bloc by burying their historical animosity. That Iraq is Shia majority and so is Iran is not a very comfortable situation for either the US or the Sunni Arabs and more so, since they control a sizeable amount of oil and gas of the world.

Why Afghanistan and Pakistan (though Pakistan is not in the US ambit in this context)? If one reads the National Intelligence Estimates, one would realise that the European industry is facing stagnation and the new oil guzzlers would be India and China. Therefore, whoever controls the supply of oil to these two can also strangulate them or else tweak them to agree to US terms. And both are growing fast and that does not auger well for anyone who wishes to control the world.

Therefore, it is essential to ensure that there is oil supply to these two countries but controlled by the US. In this context, the TAP is the answer. But the TAP can only flow through Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is why both are of interest to the US. In this context, the US opposition to the IPI can be understood.

It is time that quite a few of you do some serious reading , preferably not in the vernacular since they, well most, will only parrot the views that you are now exhibiting. Time you rid yourself of your myopic view of the world with you Islam and Pakistan centric glasses so that you can view the world event more pragmatically and fathom the ground realities. It is also time to rid yourself of your paranoia and thus be seized with the irrational persecution complex!

It will do you and the world a world of good!

They are killing two birds with one stone. First America is keeping its interest. But in the long run it will turn into a war against Islam.

 

[Flintlock]

They are killing two birds with one stone. First America is keeping its interest. But in the long run it will turn into a war against Islam.

Why do you think America holds a grudge agains islam?

 

[mujahideen]

Why do you think America holds a grudge agains islam?

I dont think I know. Only Muslim countries are being targeted. The core Muslim issues are being solved like Palestine and many other disputes. They are only creating new ones. A country like Iran or Iraq aren't allowed to have weapons but Israel can. With North Korea peace talks will be held but with Iraq and Iran strikes will be carried out. President Bush and Americas religious lobbies have constantly said this is a Crusade.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The US will not turn against Islam since oil is with Islamic countries, be it in the Middle East, Nigeria or in the Central Asian Republic.

However, they will everything to control it.

They have realised war is not the answer.

 

[mujahideen]

The US will not turn against Islam since oil is with Islamic countries, be it in the Middle East, Nigeria or in the Central Asian Republic.

However, they will everything to control it.

They have realised war is not the answer.

You are absolutely right oil is a big factor. But like I said two birds with one stone are being killed. They are waging a war against Islam to satisfy the Religious groups and also at the same time getting oil.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

To me Jihad in modern age is primarly an inner struggle to improve life and society and it should be non violant.

We have armed forces to defend our borders to ensure religious freedom, there's no need for me to carry out outer jihad. I'd be more than happy to qualify as a muslim by respecting the 5 most important principles of Islam, i.e. performing or atleast thriving to perform the following:

1 - Shahadah
2 - Salat
3 - Zakat
4 - Sawm
5 - Hajj

Jihad is not mentioned as basic or fundamental 'pillars' of Islam, I am not in position - nor do I qualify -to go for outer Jihad if I fail to practice the above mentioned principles.

I know my priorities, they are to purify myself and to desire harmony with the Creator day after day.
Thats what Jihad means to me.

Sorry to say you are wrong that the meaning of Jihad has changed in modern days, our priorities and understanding of Islam has changed!

What you speak off is the Lowest level of Jihad Neo...

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

MK, Sir,

I agree with your logic but your understanding of Islam as a religion and code of conduct is very poor!

 

[mujahideen]

Sorry to say you are wrong that the meaning of Jihad has changed in modern days, our priorities and understanding of Islam has changed!

What you speak off is the Lowest level of Jihad Neo...

Very well said. Our priorities and understanding of Islam has changed. Might I add 20 years ago it meant something and today it means something else. Islam has not changed it will never change only our needs will change. Allama Iqbal once said "I have learned in the History of the Mussalmans that it is Islam that has saved them not the other way around." And surely Islam will save us, and myself as well because I to am no angel, I to commit sins.

 

[Flintlock]

I dont think I know. Only Muslim countries are being targeted. The core Muslim issues are being solved like Palestine and many other disputes. They are only creating new ones. A country like Iran or Iraq aren't allowed to have weapons but Israel can. With North Korea peace talks will be held but with Iraq and Iran strikes will be carried out. President Bush and Americas religious lobbies have constantly said this is a Crusade.

Mujahideen, the problem with most of these theories is that they take only a narrow range of facts into consideration.

If you examine the various wars that USA has fought, most of them have been against non-islamic countries.

World war II---against Nazi Germany
Korean War---against communists
Vietnam war---against communists
Gulf war---?? (Salim or someone, can you elaborate?)
Cold war---against Communist Russia
Iraq war---against Saddam Hussein who war anything but an islamic hardliner.

I"ll admit that the Jewish lobby is quite influential in the United states. But that isn't because the US is partial towards the Jews, but because the Jewish community has a number of very talented people in influential positions.

Frankly, Bush's Iran policy is a mystery to everyone...maybe some more qualified members here could enlighten.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Mujahideen, the problem with most of these theories is that they take only a narrow range of facts into consideration.

If you examine the various wars that USA has fought, most of them have been against non-islamic countries.

World war II---against Nazi Germany
Korean War---against communists
Vietnam war---against communists
Gulf war---?? (Salim or someone, can you elaborate?)
Cold war---against Communist Russia
Iraq war---against Saddam Hussein who war anything but an islamic hardliner.

I"ll admit that the Jewish lobby is quite influential in the United states. But that isn't because the US is partial towards the Jews, but because the Jewish community has a number of very talented people in influential positions.

Frankly, Bush's Iran policy is a mystery to everyone...maybe some more qualified members here could enlighten.

SA, I donot mean to be rude but to understand what he meant in his post you should be a muslim!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You are absolutely right oil is a big factor. But like I said two birds with one stone are being killed. They are waging a war against Islam to satisfy the Religious groups and also at the same time getting oil.

Mujahideen,

While religion is a very important aspect and is very central to the Moslem's lifestyle and existence, I am afraid, that is not so in other religions.

I am not aware if you are in Pakistan or elsewhere, but if you should visit Europe or America, you will realise that while there is a lunatic fringe, they are not concerned about religion and do not wear it on their sleeves.

In fact, the lament of Christian Churches is that the Sunday congregation has dropped so badly that the Church is at a total loss.

The Vatican, which is the more orthodox of Churches, worried about the falling figures are now allowing "pagan" ideas to exist side by side with the tenets of Chirstianity - a phenomenon that would be heresy a few decades back!

Therefore, appeasement of the religious bodies in the US, is not, to my mind, a correct surmise.