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Featured Inside Pervez Hoodbhoy’s Classroom

It takes a certain species of genius, found exclusively hereabouts, to make the accusations you listed. I was merely referring to that.
Those aren't accusations, those are factual statements, verifiable by going to the twitter timelines of any number of 'high profile' Pakistani liberals.

You could have offered a simple clarification or comment that 'the people who make those claims do not represent Pakistan's liberal movement and that you and other liberals you know condemn such positions'.

But instead of clearly addressing the issue, you're running around in circles being coy.
 
Those aren't accusations, those are factual statements, verifiable by going to the twitter timelines of any number of 'high profile' Pakistani liberals.

You could have offered a simple clarification or comment that 'the people who make those claims do not represent Pakistan's liberal movement and that you and other liberals you know condemn such positions'.

But instead of clearly addressing the issue, you're running around in circles being coy.
I felt myself inadequate to provide a critique on such intelligently argued accusations. But I always knew you were clever enough to make the inference in the end.

Contrary to what we regrettably see these days in some bohemian offshoots of the left, ostracising and silencing opponents is the antithesis of what liberalism stands for.
 
Contrary to what we regrettably see these days in some bohemian offshoots of the left, ostracising and silencing opponents is the antithesis of what liberalism stands for.
Thank you for clarifying.

So, which liberals, in your view, better represent 'Pakistani liberalism'?

I'd love to follow/read them.
 
Thank you for clarifying.

So, which liberals, in your view, better represent 'Pakistani liberalism'?

I'd love to follow/read them.
I don't think any of them would apeal to your tastes if Dr Pervez didn't.
 
Bunch of anti Pakistan deen i ilahist khawarij
 
In the context of the current discussion and my criticism of Pakistani liberals/leftists (that they are fighting a losing battle, making enemies of various power centers and the majority of Pakistanis), perhaps it is time that the Deep State take the initiative with liberals/leftists, not to quash them, but to reach out and co-opt them, at least those that are willing.

People like Ejaz Haider come to mind - socially liberal, a nationalist and who doesn't pick sides when it comes to criticizing policy (PPP, PMLN PTI - I've seen him go after everyone).

If the current liberal/leftist elite is too far gone to co-opt, perhaps it is time that more people like Ejaz Haider are cultivated in our universities and media. Do what the US Establishment does - find journalists with potential, cultivate them and ply them with information from 'anonymous, high level military sources' approved to do just that. Help build their reputations and that of their sources (David Sanger, Bob Woodward etc in the US for example).

We have to become a lot more sophisticated in how we deal with modern information warfare. ISPR may be ahead of the game compared to the Indian military, but we still have a lot of room for improvement.

You are absolutely right --- except that you are assuming a lot more competence within the Establishment/Deep State than there actually is these days.

This stuff requires a mercurial understanding of human psychology, subliminal persuasion and a lot more. Blunt tools won't work anymore.

The mantra on many university campuses is "radical secularism" --- purportedly to balance things in society. Not only is this dangerous, it's actually nonsense. There is no indication that a purely secular / liberal society is necessarily less prone to violence and debauchery. If anything, many of the world's current large-scale conflicts and the subsequent violence and destruction has been the result of "secular" thinking in the West: the World Wars, the only use of the atomic bomb in history, the Middle East interventions for "regime change," etc.

What policymakers don't seem to get is that it is these very specific liberal elite narratives are rewarded both culturally (in Pakistan, many middle class students gravitate towards these views because that's the ticket to the progressive, elite crowd) and financially (Western university scholarships, human rights / freedom of expression awards, etc., all seem to coalesce around woke and social justice warrior-esque themes these days.)

Imagine two students. One writes an application essay for a Fulbright scholarship on how women have it really bad in Pakistan. Another writes about the failed policy of US interventionism and how such invasions, coupled with low investments in socio-economic uplift, breed radicalism far more aggressively than any village idiot mullah ever could. Who do you think is getting the scholarship to attend a good American university on the State Dept's expense? To fight against this, our leaders need to wake the f*** up and create a more engaging national identity and culture --- and ruthlessly (yet sophisticatedly) deal with all those who try to muddle it.

Pankaj Mishra put things in much better words that I ever could have in his seminal essay, The Liberal Order is the Incubator for Authoritarianism: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article...itarianism-a-conversation-with-pankaj-mishra/

 
I felt myself inadequate to provide a critique on such intelligently argued accusations. But I always knew you were clever enough to make the inference in the end.

Contrary to what we regrettably see these days in some bohemian offshoots of the left, ostracising and silencing opponents is the antithesis of what liberalism stands for.

I'm glad somebody realizes this. Many SJWs are simply aggressively parroting woke phrases that they, perhaps, haven't even fully understood themselves. Some of the language is hard to decipher for anyone outside a Gender Studies PhD.

The grand irony is that Pakistan's most vocal "liberals" are pseudo-intellectual at best and bring just about as much totalitarianism to bear (very, very low tolerance for differing views, labeling the religious backward barbarians, etc.) as the conservatives they so despise.
 
hoodbhoy is cool , I have met him in person , he love Pakistan to core

Western modern might has flaws , but its most workable and successful in the world at present , Pakistan need forced westernization , we cant wait for experimentation,
 
hoodbhoy is cool , I have met him in person , he love Pakistan to core

Western modern might has flaws , but its most workable and successful in the world at present , Pakistan need forced westernization , we cant wait for experimentation,

Secular not forcing religion or views on people, if someone doesn't want to believe in Allah or his oneness that should be the individuals choice not the states or society, no blasphemy laws, women and men seen as equal. Progressive education not religious.... The only time in U.K school you learn about religion is R.E and you learn about multiple religions... 1 hour lesson a week .....
 
hoodbhoy is cool , I have met him in person , he love Pakistan to core

Western modern might has flaws , but its most workable and successful in the world at present , Pakistan need forced westernization , we cant wait for experimentation,

progressive nazi much!!
 
My first encounter with true Hoodboy types was in Hayatabad Peshawar - and not just a small group but an entire party of individuals looking like some American TV show.

But this is still a minor portion of Pakistani society and their greater impact is either due to their educational prowess or elitist status.

My parents tell the tale of going to a party at someone’s house where the mother asked her son to quickly do his Isha farz and she’ll make him his “pack” of coke and “mashroob”.. well, to his credit he did his farz namaz which I on occasion do miss.

The problem is not their existence but the fact that those that champion Islam in Pakistan are generally the most illiterate or epitome of ignorance. That goes hand in hand with the generally educated middle classes who do espouse such moderate(also known as sirat-e-mustaqeem) values but are so caught in their daily webs of rat races and survival in Pakistan that they cannot effectively form a leadership for what are the values taught by the prophet and continued by Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique, to Hazrat Umar and all the way down to those teachers that came to the subcontinent and taught our ancestors.

What is left are the poor, the downtrodden and forgotten; who then form colored turban cults or march behind living gas bladders who themselves are sellouts to foreign powers or money.
 
The slow change will come if liberals stick to their arguments. We don't need to make shameful alliances with the military and capitulate to the bigoted ideas in our constitution. Let liberal ideals be discussed on unregulated electronic media and watch as conservatism disappears from the country in less than half a century.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of liberal ideals is their free discussion. They will be "naturally selected" from alternative ideas for their sheer rationally demonstrable utility. Conservatism and tribalism survive because of either a genuine or a contrived threat to an identity group. Since there are few genuine threats in our world, and those that remain are fleeting, conservatism and tribalism survive mostly due to an artificial perception of threat promoted by power structures within groups. In Pakistan's case, this false threat perception will slowly subside as a result of free discussion on unregulated communication platforms.

Your liberal ideas are dying the world over. Stop kidding yourself.
 
hoodbhoy is cool , I have met him in person , he love Pakistan to core

Western modern might has flaws , but its most workable and successful in the world at present , Pakistan need forced westernization , we cant wait for experimentation,

LOL Yahoodbhoy is an avid Pakistan hater. He once came to The Netherlands and started preaching how Pakistan should denuclearize. He is basically an aman ki asha remnant.

Along with Yahoodbhoy people like you are also a problem. Luckily you are a fringe minority. It is good to dream though. Keep dreaming about a libtard Pakistan.
 
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