Featured India’s Test of Hypersonic missile and implications for Pakistan

[ARMalik]

This week India tested its first hypersonic missile. Traveling at extreme speeds with unpredictable flight patterns, hypersonic missiles have the potential to destabilize the strategic balance in South Asia, in ways not seen since India’s test of the nuclear bomb in 1972. Recent discussions on India has centered around New Delhi’s acquisition of the Rafale aircrafts. But these Rafale aircrafts don’t substantially alter the balance between the two air forces. The hypersonic missile tested by India has far-reaching implications for Pakistan.

“Pakistan is not known to have an indigenous hypersonic development program. Moreover, if China, Russia, and the United States reach an agreement on the issue, then there are more chances of avoiding a possible regional hypersonic rivalry in South Asia by making India part of the agreement.”

Hypersonic Weapons Affect South Asia Too | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org

What a load of bullocks ! India has NO CREDIBLE hypesonic program. All India has is a BIG MOUTH which spills a lot of garbage.

Here is what the article itself say: "For instance, India tested its indigenous Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) on June 12." Catch-phrase is "Technology Demonstrator". Same as the wonderful "Tejas" for example. It is such a majestic fighter jet capable of flying to the moon!

Also the article says: "It is also developing the BrahMos-2 hypersonic missile with Russia’s help". We all know Russia has stopped this project.

The country which has operational hyper weapons is China !! Poor filth country like India need at least another 10 years to get basics right.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

The country which has operational hyper weapons is China !! Poor filth country like India need at least another 10 years to get basics right.

China also does not have a working hypersonic cruise missile. Only Russia has.

Actually, India took more than 10 years to get to this stage in SCRAMjet based hypersonic tech. Tech demonstrator project dates back to 2008-2010. Good thing is that it now has required infra (wind tunnels) and technology (SCRAMjet engine) to develop the weapon. BTW, this is not the first test of underlying technology. India tested SCRAMjet back in 2016 as well and produced net thurst.

 

[redtom]

Yes, and no. Existing anti-missile systems cann't handle fractional orbital bombardment type of threats. Heck, even MIRV are very very very hard to defend against. When it comes to strategic ballistic missiles, even now, there is no effective defence. Ask Pakistanis, why they went for MIRV. All these technologies are from 60s and still there is not much even the most advanced nations US, Russia and China can do against them.


DF17 (HGV) and SCRAMjet based cruise missiles are two very different weapons meant to fulfill two very different roles. SCRAMjet based cruise missiles are thought as a very very effective anti ship missiles for ALL kinds of ships. India needs it to protect against PLAN.

India does not have any HGV program because India does not need it. HGV for a "prompt global strike" kind of role simply does not fit into India's threat model. Basically, India does not have distant or global enemies like US does. All its enemies are next door. Hence no HGV was pursued.

So, India has been working on a hypersonic cruise missile since quite sometime now. From 2008 - 10 AFAIK. I believe it has received help from Russia too.

Now as far as heat resistant material tech specifically goes, a 1000 KM range Hypersonic Cruise flying at 2 KM / sec (6.0 mach no) will fly for 500 seconds. At higher machs say mach 9 (3 KM/sec), it will be 333.0 seconds. Thats less than 9 minutes at Mach 6 or 6 minutes at mach 9. The re-entry time of a typical space shuttle travelling at 7-8 km /sec ( 21 - 24 mach no) slowing down to 1 mach is 10 minutes or more. "Heat resistant material" tech is pretty old and well understood and documented.

But India does not have a space shuttle. The shuttle also doesn't need radar to find ground targets.
Don't Indian missiles need to be aimed at?Aren't you afraid of fighting your own army?

 

[arjunk]

Land launched

Babur

air launched

Raad

ship launched

Babur

supersonic

stealth>speed

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

But India does not have a space shuttle. The shuttle also doesn't need radar to find ground targets.

India has tested a reusable return vehicle : https://www.isro.gov.in/technology-...hicle-technology-demonstration-program-rlv-td

Don't Indian missiles need to be aimed at?Aren't you afraid of fighting your own army?

India already has a terminal guidance for Brahmos : https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/ind...rsonic-missile-fitted-with-indigenous-seeker/

“The precision strike weapon with indigenous seeker flew in its designated trajectory and hit the pre-set target,”

Babur

Super sonic?

Raad

Super sonic?

Babur

Supersonic?

stealth>speed

Tell that to the China and Russia who are seeking hypersonic speed instead of stealth.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Not reading all 7 pages but hypersonic missiles will be more easily countered then subsonic cruise missiles. There are many reasons for that and I'll just state a couple.

The faster the missile flies, the less maneuverable it will be as making quick turns to evade defenses is not possible. That means once identified and tracked, it's trajectory is easy to compute by the defending party. In fact any sudden changes in flight would cause the missile to disintegrate in the air.

The faster it flies, it also makes early warning easier as newer technology in radar and passive detection is only getting better. Infact even if the radar signature is hidden, the heat signature over a cool ocean can not be masked. Flying at those speeds will make it glow a long ways out for the right instruments.

Speed is also a two way street. The faster flight time is meant to give shorter response time to the target (hence early detection will counter that advantage). The flip side of the coin is, it also gives the computers and sensors on the missile little time to tackle countermeasures by the target, whether it's physically altering it's course, or ECM, jamming and decoys etc.

Since the field of view is very narrow for most missiles, even a slight and momentary deviation from the actual target will cause the missile to miss or overshoot.

I say let them waste time on hypersonic missiles if they want while we can work towards more reasonable goals. Maybe once they can make their missiles work in next twenty years, they could also fix their quality control so the simpler tank and artillery barrels don't keep blowing up..

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

The faster the missile flies, the less maneuverable it will be as making quick turns to evade defenses is not possible. That means once identified and tracked, it's trajectory is easy to compute by the defending party. In fact any sudden changes in flight would cause the missile to disintegrate in the air.

The faster it flies, it also makes early warning easier as newer technology in radar and passive detection is only getting better. Infact even if the radar signature is hidden, the heat signature over a cool ocean can not be masked. Flying at those speeds will make it glow a long ways out for the right instruments.

Speed is also a two way street. The faster flight time is meant to give shorter response time to the target (hence early detection will counter that advantage). The flip side of the coin is, it also gives the computers and sensors on the missile little time to tackle countermeasures by the target, whether it's physically altering it's course, or ECM, jamming and decoys etc.

Since the field of view is very narrow for most missiles, even a slight and momentary deviation from the actual target will cause the missile to miss or overshoot.

Do remember these "observation" or rather speculations are not India specific. Hypersonic cruise missile have been studied and are being developed by three of the P5s. I think they might have done their homework on it.

I say let them waste time on hypersonic missiles if they want while we can work towards more reasonable goals. Maybe once they can make their missiles work in next twenty years, they could also fix their quality control so the simpler tank and artillery barrels don't keep blowing up..

Curiously, why it has to be "either or"?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Do remember these "observation" or rather speculations are not India specific. Hypersonic cruise missile have been studied and are being developed by three of the P5s. I think they might have done their homework on it.


Curiously, why it has to be "either or"?

You can ask them for their reasons and because it's India we are talking about.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

You can ask them for their reasons and because it's India we are talking about.

Its not the reasons, its the "limitations" of hypersonic cruise missiles that you raised. Those *should* be universal because they seem to be rooted in "physics". Unless of course you are suggesting there are different laws of physics in different countries.

Curiously, since you have mentioned reasons, are you sure about what the reasons India has and if they are different than those of P5?

 

[redtom]

India has tested a reusable return vehicle : https://www.isro.gov.in/technology-...hicle-technology-demonstration-program-rlv-td


India already has a terminal guidance for Brahmos : https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/ind...rsonic-missile-fitted-with-indigenous-seeker/






Super sonic?

Super sonic?

Supersonic?


Tell that to the China and Russia who are seeking hypersonic speed instead of stealth.

Powerpoint is not evidence.Powerpoint is also not ability.

You are trying to prove with supersonic missiles that India has solved the hypersonic materials problem.

Is this characteristic of Indians?

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

You are trying to prove with supersonic missiles that India has solved the hypersonic materials problem.

No dear, I am saying that material problem has been solved long back because that problem was faced by something else as well. BTW, for all your "hypersonic material" hype, I am yet to see a single source.

Powerpoint is not evidence.Powerpoint is also not ability.

Asserting and not giving any source is worse. Its called ignorance. Link to what you call "evidence" for your own claims and then may be you can be taken more seriously.

Is this characteristic of Indians?

@waz @The Eagle @krash This is second time that our friend has used such kind of language. Should I respond in kind?

 

[The Eagle]

Discussion be continued with civility, manners & ethics. If you don't agree with each other, just disagree with respect and move on.

Regards,

 

[redtom]

No dear, I am saying that material problem has been solved long back because that problem was faced by something else as well. BTW, for all your "hypersonic material" hype, I am yet to see a single source.


Asserting and not giving any source is worse. Its called ignorance. Link to what you call "evidence" for your own claims and then may be you can be taken more seriously.


@waz @The Eagle @krash This is second time that our friend has used such kind of language. Should I respond in kind?

If a worthless piece of social media news is evidence, I have a lot to offer.I have powerpoint and CG, all kinds of military fanatics.If it makes sense to you, you can stick to it.Otherwise go back to a normal discussion and stick to the topic.Rather than moving from one problem to another.

 

[SamranAli]

Do read that it is not written anywhere that some international agreement would help India develop and bar Pakistan from developing hypersonic technology. The article meant an international agreement on limiting or banning the weaponisation of the technology.

The author is an idiot to think that any international agreement that helps India build a destabilising edge over Pakistan, while preventing Pakistan from gaining parity is going to work.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

If a worthless piece of social media news is evidence, I have a lot to offer.I have powerpoint and CG, all kinds of military fanatics.If it makes sense to you, you can stick to it.Otherwise go back to a normal discussion and stick to the topic.Rather than moving from one problem to another.

Social media news? I challenge you to point one place where I have linked to any social media. My sources are ISRO and Brahmos’s press release.

BTW I have not seen a single source from you of all you hypersonic claims,