India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal

[sparten]

The release happens far above the atmosphere. Hence, the interceptor is not yet fired. Even after release, there will be 1-2 minute to strike. The missile is fired only during that last 20-30 seconds of strike. So, recalculation is possible. 10 seconds of tracking is enough to determine the trajectory after release.

Its like talking to a wall.
1) The release happens the bloody bus moves and releases agaon. The problem is not that the RADAR cannot track the change, its the interceptor won't know where the bus will be whehn **it** gets there. Its like a fielder catching a ball. He can see its trajectory and place himself inline to catch it. If the ball swerves in the air (like a bus moves) he is now in the wrong place and he is going to struggle to get to the new place in time. Now imagine if if keeps swerving.
2) You also forget that an interceptor has to move through the air to get into space. That takes times. At the same time the RV is nearing its target. Its a dynamic system.

The interplay between the two is known as an "engagement envelope". Meaning the period of time that the interceptor has to hit the incoming RV. That is calculated as E=Time to reach Target(Tt)-Time to achieve intercept (Ti).

E=Tt-Ti.
Ti is the time an interceptor takes from acuqistion+ to firing solution+ to launch+ to arrival.
With an MIRV bus, when it changes its trajectory, the whole process has to start all over again. It =has to reaqcuire the target, plot a new solution and fire. All the time E is reducing. By the time it is ready to engage, BOOM.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

See shaheen ii booster carrying ababeel rv which is more than 2000kg. We won't need bomber. For 1 to 2 megaton thermonuclear weapon. 1to2 megaton thermonuclear at 50km will
Degrade the vision of both your radar and your
iir for minutes the Dense hot cloudy smoke for miles effects both ir and em spectrums. And emp is highly disruptive if not destructive to emp hardened electronics.
20 to 30 seconds is a last ditch effort not a reliable or dependable shield doobte ko tinke ka sahara.

 

[HariPrasad]

There is a lot of nonsence sprouted by Indians that "they can intercept MIRV". No they can't. No one can. Some idiot even wrote MIRV is used for "saturation attacks". Not they are not. Thats MRV. Multiple Re entry Vehicles. Note the absence of the "I" in that. An MRV is like a single RV missile, only with multiple RV, like say 3 which are use in a pattern against a single target.

MIRV stands for multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle. It sends different RV to geographically spaced targets, not multiple RV onto the same target as people have been claiming.

This has implications for how its intercepted. A "normal" SRV or MRV carrying missile is launched on a trajectory which will take the missile to target. The defenders RADAR calculates the trajectory and sends an interceptor to shoot it down. Or them down in the case of MRV.

An MIRV does not work that way. Instead the rocket nose cone contains a "bus" which has a small motor and the multiple RV. Missile is launched and the bus seperates. It puts itself on a particular trajectory and releases an RV. It then fires its motor and shifts to a new trajectory to release the next RV. This continues until all warheads are released.

This makes the ground based systems job much harder and basically unfeasible. The defender does not know whats the actual target is until much later. Its not like say two missiles are launched and the defender can confidently say "ok, one Delhi the other Luckknow". He'll only know if either is a target as the RV begins its rentery reducing the envelop greatly.

Many Indians claim that "we have a midcourse interceptor, ha ha". Yeah, irelevant. Note what I said about the "bus" and shifting trajectory? So you see the bus on the RADAR and send an interceptor after it. Great. Except once it releases one RV its going to shift its trakectory and it won't be where the interceptor is going. And no you cannot simply "launch another one". A ground bases system has to go through the thick lower atmosphere and enter space this takes time.

There is no realistic way to have a useful defence against MIRV systems using ground based systems. Space based? Yes.

But Pakistan having MIRV is the biggest lie. Pakistan does not have any missile which can release mirv from given altitude to travel to the locations geographically apart by a big distance. So simply hyping about mirv does not make it a reality.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

But Pakistan having MIRV is the biggest lie. Pakistan does not have any missile which can release mirv from given altitude to travel to the locations geographically apart by a big distance. So simply hyping about mirv does not make it a reality.

You will see the demo don't phikar

 

[HariPrasad]

You will see the demo don't phikar

We have seen too many demos in past so I am not worried at all.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

We have seen too many demos in past so I am not worried at all.

Good phor you one should spend some time in la la land its good phor Depression.

 

[HariPrasad]

Good phor you one should spend some time in la la land its good phor Depression.

But some people's whole life goes in it and they are not able to come out of depression for life time.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Both your links says its classified @Vijyes Yechury
and you brain utter nonsense @Vijyes Yechury

but india have to be because your main enemy China have an ICBM for you @Vijyes Yechury

The delayed death by radiation is classified. But the effects of mutation and child birth disorder is available. The delayed death from radiation can be mixed with the total death figures of 1-1.5lakh as some error margin.

In fact, most of the people dies instantly or within a few days of the blast due to debris. Only a small number died in delayed manner. Long term effect is non existent in the form of cild mutation etc.

Its like talking to a wall.
1) The release happens the bloody bus moves and releases agaon. The problem is not that the RADAR cannot track the change, its the interceptor won't know where the bus will be whehn **it** gets there. Its like a fielder catching a ball. He can see its trajectory and place himself inline to catch it. If the ball swerves in the air (like a bus moves) he is now in the wrong place and he is going to struggle to get to the new place in time. Now imagine if if keeps swerving.
2) You also forget that an interceptor has to move through the air to get into space. That takes times. At the same time the RV is nearing its target. Its a dynamic system.

The interplay between the two is known as an "engagement envelope". Meaning the period of time that the interceptor has to hit the incoming RV. That is calculated as E=Time to reach Target(Tt)-Time to achieve intercept (Ti).

E=Tt-Ti.
Ti is the time an interceptor takes from acuqistion+ to firing solution+ to launch+ to arrival.
With an MIRV bus, when it changes its trajectory, the whole process has to start all over again. It =has to reaqcuire the target, plot a new solution and fire. All the time E is reducing. By the time it is ready to engage, BOOM.

AAD intercepts within an altitude of less than 30km. PDV does it at altitude of 50-80km. So, if the missile is released at 400km, then it will still take some time to reach 30km and by then, the radar will detect it.

You should note that release has to be done before the descent begins. Release can't be done during descent as maneuvering power will not be enough to change direction. So, there is plenty of time to detect.

See shaheen ii booster carrying ababeel rv which is more than 2000kg. We won't need bomber. For 1 to 2 megaton thermonuclear weapon. 1to2 megaton thermonuclear at 50km will
Degrade the vision of both your radar and your
iir for minutes the Dense hot cloudy smoke for miles effects both ir and em spectrums. And emp is highly disruptive if not destructive to emp hardened electronics.
20 to 30 seconds is a last ditch effort not a reliable or dependable shield doobte ko tinke ka sahara.

If the payload is 1.5ton, then it can't have MIRV. So, 1 missile will launch 1 bomb only.

But you are overestimating the power of nuclear bomb. 1-1.5 MT is not enough to attack 1100 sqkm of delhi. No matter what you do, you can't kill too many people with 1 bomb. Population density of delhi is 11000. So, even if you wipe out 3 sqkm, it will still be 30-40k at most. The radius of Nagasaki bomb was 300m and 1MT will be cube root of 50 times 300m which is about 1km radius. In a circle, we can say pixr^2 = 3.2sqkm for 1MT bomb. Add a little for 1.5MT bomb.

So, the damage from 3 bomb will be 1.5lakh on delhi. The additional injury can be 4-5lakh. So, total of say 6lakh. The 2004 Tsunami itself caused massive damage, 2013 Uttarakhand floods caused damage to several tens of thousands to over a lakh. Yet we live as nothing happened.

 

[Ultima Thule]

AAD intercepts within an altitude of less than 30km. PDV does it at altitude of 50-80km. So, if the missile is released at 400km, then it will still take some time to reach 30km and by then, the radar will detect it.

You should note that release has to be done before the descent begins. Release can't be done during descent as maneuvering power will not be enough to change direction. So, there is plenty of time to detect.

But you have to discriminate decoys and actual warheads son @Vijyes Yechury you can't discriminate those warheads and decoys with using only Radars @Vijyes Yechury

 

[Fawadqasim1]

The delayed death by radiation is classified. But the effects of mutation and child birth disorder is available. The delayed death from radiation can be mixed with the total death figures of 1-1.5lakh as some error margin.

In fact, most of the people dies instantly or within a few days of the blast due to debris. Only a small number died in delayed manner. Long term effect is non existent in the form of cild mutation etc.


AAD intercepts within an altitude of less than 30km. PDV does it at altitude of 50-80km. So, if the missile is released at 400km, then it will still take some time to reach 30km and by then, the radar will detect it.

You should note that release has to be done before the descent begins. Release can't be done during descent as maneuvering power will not be enough to change direction. So, there is plenty of time to detect.



If the payload is 1.5ton, then it can't have MIRV. So, 1 missile will launch 1 bomb only.

But you are overestimating the power of nuclear bomb. 1-1.5 MT is not enough to attack 1100 sqkm of delhi. No matter what you do, you can't kill too many people with 1 bomb. Population density of delhi is 11000. So, even if you wipe out 3 sqkm, it will still be 30-40k at most. The radius of Nagasaki bomb was 300m and 1MT will be cube root of 50 times 300m which is about 1km radius. In a circle, we can say pixr^2 = 3.2sqkm for 1MT bomb. Add a little for 1.5MT bomb.

So, the damage from 3 bomb will be 1.5lakh on delhi. The additional injury can be 4-5lakh. So, total of say 6lakh. The 2004 Tsunami itself caused massive damage, 2013 Uttarakhand floods caused damage to several tens of thousands to over a lakh. Yet we live as nothing happened.

I am not talking about mirv please read the thread

 

[khanmubashir]

You have made mad and wrong research knucklehead

Don't waste your time on this retard who doesn't even know metric level science
Thinks for 1.5 megaton nuke the weight should be 1.5 ton too

He just some call center boy making extra cash on-line payed trolling

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

But you have to discriminate decoys and actual warheads son @Vijyes Yechury you can't discriminate those warheads and decoys with using only Radars @Vijyes Yechury

Radars can detect the speed of warheads or objects. This is how planes use BVRAAM to shoot down enemy planes. Distance can be detected by radar and the continual changing of distance gives speed. So, when the lighter decoys fall slowly, radar can easily find out that the fastest ones are the real warheads.

I am not talking about mirv please read the thread

Blast radius for Nagasaki bomb is 300metres 1.5MT is 75 times bigger and hence will have radius of cuberoot(75)x0.3 km = 1.25km

Even with 1.5MT warhead, the blast radius will be 1.25km and area is pi*r^2 3.14*1.25*1.25 = 5 sqkm. The number of people per sqkm is 11000 in delhi. So, 1.5MT bomb will destroy 55000 people. Since destruction will not be 100% due to several factors like buildings etc coming in the way, it will be little less. The additional damage may be around the same at about 1.5lakh more people dead. Injury may be 3 lakh.

Total is about 2 lakh death and 3 lakh major injury per bomb in delhi. If the bombs overlap each other, the death toll in total will be far less as same area will be destroyed twice. The toll will be far less if other areas are targeted.

I will give images of Nagasaki and Hiroshima:

What you see here is that the wooden houses were destroyed but the brick and concrete ones survived. In Japan the wooden houses were popular due to frequent earthquakes and hence there were significant casualty. With modern brick houses, effect will be minimal
Here is images of Syria and Afghanistan where no nukes were used:


Syria:

Afghanistan:

 

[Ultima Thule]

Radars can detect the speed of warheads or objects. This is how planes use BVRAAM to shoot down enemy planes. Distance can be detected by radar and the continual changing of distance gives speed. So, when the lighter decoys fall slowly, radar can easily find out that the fastest ones are the real warheads.

harder to discriminate warhead with decoys only radar, you need dedicated IR sat lites to discriminates real warhead/decoys just like USA does @Vijyes Yechury

Blast radius for Nagasaki bomb is 300metres 1.5MT is 75 times bigger and hence will have radius of cuberoot(75)x0.3 km = 1.25km

Even with 1.5MT warhead, the blast radius will be 1.25km and area is pi*r^2 3.14*1.25*1.25 = 5 sqkm. The number of people per sqkm is 11000 in delhi. So, 1.5MT bomb will destroy 55000 people. Since destruction will not be 100% due to several factors like buildings etc coming in the way, it will be little less. The additional damage may be around the same at about 1.5lakh more people dead. Injury may be 3 lakh.

Total is about 2 lakh death and 3 lakh major injury per bomb in delhi. If the bombs overlap each other, the death toll in total will be far less as same area will be destroyed twice. The toll will be far less if other areas are targeted.

I will give images of Nagasaki and Hiroshima:

And how about thermal/heat deaths is far more then blast radius @Vijyes Yechury

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Don't waste your time on this retard who doesn't even know metric level science
Thinks for 1.5 megaton nuke the weight should be 1.5 ton too

He just some call center boy making extra cash on-line payed trolling

Moron, it is the norm that the weight of the bomb upto 1MT from 200kT weighs almost as much as the number of tons. It is a rough estimate. The actual weight can range from 1ton to 1.5ton for the RV.

Check the tonnage of USA RVs to understand how the weight is correlated to the power.

Check USA W49 having 1.4MT power and 1.5ton weight nuclear bomb of 1962, after which USA reduced MT bombs and started making 100-500kT warheads. The warheads like W62, W76 etc have the rough ratio of 1kg per 1kT. I don't know why this is.

So, unless you are some genius who has more intelligence and can tell me what is the realistic weight of 1.5MT bomb, stop acting smart.

You a work in call centre if you want, may be as cleaner of call centre toilet. I am not interested

 

[randomradio]

You're right this time. There are things I wish I could write here, but let me say that Indian radars specifically designed to track RVs have been deployed at certain places.

The two known sites are Pali and Alwar, both in Rajasthan. That's the centre of the circles I've drawn. More sites may come up later.