Indian army running short of ammunition

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by Paan Singh, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. AbhijitSingh
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    AbhijitSingh BANNED

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    Just sayin... How little does it take to get our Pakistani Bros all happy and excited.. well, they say, Ignorance is Bliss ;)
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  2. Irfan Baloch
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    excitement? bliss? ammo? sorry mate what are you on about?
    why not make yourself clear on your main account?

    you really had to create a new ID to mourn over our ignorance? well mourn over some of your fellow Indians too because they are advocating to blacklist the Indian defense suppliers who have caused this debacle
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  3. Irfan Baloch
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    Irfan Baloch Counterterrorism Expert

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    dont be so defeatist my dear,

    Americans are looking for someone reliable to take on the Chinese, they dont want someone to run out of steam at the time of need.
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  4. SamantK
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    See first of all you being a think tank should be able to reason more correctly than just dismiss the Indians on this thread. Please read my post #335. I see you go after the trolls here and no wonder you are feeding on them or they on you.. think much? If you are only looking for a approval of your convictions the second page on this thread should have quench your thirst where one Indian member did accept that if true the situation is bad(Why do you have to convince each and every member on this forum?).. and much more amusing is that a 'mod' liked your post :undecided:


    Now now as in case of superkaif above, you have been responding selectively to only those which are either trolling or you are trolling and flame baiting them.. however, you have not tried to discuss it any more than your black and white conclusions either this or that.. Just to tell you that we live in a muticolored world and there is also a color called grey(also read vibgyor), which you completely fail to see...

    To both of you, if you had such simplistic conclusions of a news item on the Indian Army you should have stopped your rants about either this or that long back. If you want a decent debate, first de-bunk on the points I have raised, make them rational (unlike your black and white conclusions), and then we can have a good discussion.. otherwise as I said above keep responding to guys you claimed as trolls even when they brought in Chinese tea and you disappointingly responded to them.. Again your post too is liked by a mod... seriously!!:frown:
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  5. Paan Singh
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    Paan Singh BANNED

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    and you think india is football;)?
  6. Irfan Baloch
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    Irfan Baloch Counterterrorism Expert

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    no sir I dont


    it was an analogy
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  7. Paan Singh
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    so plz close it...we wont get anything other than pink saadis for indians;)
  8. Shaurya
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    Shaurya FULL MEMBER

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    what to say?? gandhi dynasty zindabaad
  9. Paan Singh
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    dont worry..gandhis will run for their life with in 8-10 years.
    more the ppl will be educated,more will they come to know abt their kaarnama's;)

    and with in 10 years,india will reduce their much poverty with educated population.
  10. Shaurya
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    There's no time my friend, we don't have 10yrs. and then as Kabirji said...

    Kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare toh aab, pal mein par lay hoyegi , phir bahuri karega kab??

    A nation that is still young, MUST be guided in the right way... gandi ideology unfortunately (or fortunately) has died, the mistakes of our ancestors are what we are suffering now, Nehru gave up gilgit baluchistan, he gave up lahore, he gave up tibet and was going to give up kashmir too :) guess who votes for these jokers and who these jokers work for??
    Aman ki Asha my a$$ , now is the time to get back our land that was illegally stolen from us, who are britards to decide what India should be?? moreover, who is nehru to decide what India should be?? Was he even correct?? I really don't want to insult a dead man but to be true, he worked more for OUTSIDERS than he did for this country... Gandhiji himself is a face value who is extensively used today to gain political sympathy and votes... add to that the appeasement, kick these jokers out, throw out their rotten ideology and we will see who stops us from developing...
  11. Jon Snow
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    This is very serious news -one which we cant ignore especially as it comes from the Army chief.
    The first question to ask is what kind of ammunition ?? If it is small arms then that can be easily remedied - we manufacture our own small arms(INSAS ) and its ammo inhouse. There was news that there was a shortfall in ATGMs but we quickly bought some on an urgent basis -
    India goes for 'urgent' purchase of anti-tank missiles - Times Of India
    We also make our own tank ammo.
    So it can only be artillery ammo as we have been facing problems in this field due to blacklisting by the goverment for example :-
    One FIR, Govt blacklists 7 firms, hits artillery upgrade - Indian Express

    Having already taken a knocking with the controversies involving Bofors and Denel, India’s artillery modernisation programme hit another roadblock when the Ministry of Defence, taking note of bribery allegations in a fresh case, blacklisted seven firms, including gun manufacturer Singapore Technologies (ST) and munitions giant Israeli Military Industries (IMI) until further notice.
    With all dealings with the two firms put on hold, defence contracts worth over Rs 6,000 crore — all involving artillery guns and ammunition for the Army — are now in deep freeze.

    Confirming a report in The Indian Express, the Ministry of Defence said “all acquisition cases in the pipeline” with seven firms have been “put on hold” after their names figured in a CBI probe into corruption charges against former Director General of Ordnance Factory Board Sudipta Ghosh.

    Taking a tough stand on charges of bribery against these companies, Defence Minister A K Antony said that the ban “should act as a deterrence to all those who are involved in procurement of system platforms for defence sector.”

    The Army’s artillery acquisition programme had already taken a beating following the Bofors scandal and the blacklisting of South African giant Denel on bribery charges in 2005.

    With Denel still blacklisted, Singapore Technologies was the frontrunner in a Rs 5,000-crore tender to provide 155 mm light howitzers for Army use in mountainous terrain. ST was the only company in consideration for the contract after BAE Systems Bofors did not take part.

    The Army quest for self-reliance in artillery ammunition has also been hit with the ban on Israeli firm IMI. The company had been awarded a Rs 1,200-crore contract in April to set up an ordnance factory in Nalanda to produce ammunition for the 155 mm Bofors guns. Officials said the contract has now been put on hold.

    The factory is already five years behind schedule, stalled in 2005 following the Denel scandal. The South African firm had originally been selected to start the factory. Initial payments had already been made when it was blacklisted following corruption charges.

    Incidentally, all three Indian firms blacklisted Thursday are also involved in the manufacture of ammunition components for the 155 mm artillery guns of the Army. The companies barred from business are:

    • Israeli Military Industries, Israel: The small arms manufacturer recently bagged a Rs 1,200-crore deal to set up a ammunition factory in Nalanda. It manufactures well-known small arms including the Uzi submachine gun, the Tavor assault rifle and the Desert Eagle revolver. In 2002, India signed a Rs 90-crore deal to procure over 3,000 Tavor rifles for its special forces from IMI.

    • Singapore Technologies: The Singapore-based firm manufacturers small arms and artillery systems, mainly for its parent country. The firm has a joint venture with OFB on small arms and the two have jointly developed a carbine, the SAR 21 MMS for sale to Indian defence and paramilitary forces. It was the frontrunner in a Rs 5,000-crore tender to provide 155 mm light howitzers for the Army.

    • T S Kishan and Co Pvt Ltd: A Delhi-based firm, it manufactures explosive shells for the 155 mm Bofors guns in service with the Army. It has a tie-up with OFB for manufacturing sub-components of the artillery ammunition.

    • R K Machine Tools: The Ludhiana-based company supplies critical components to the OFB including 120 mm shells and varieties of 155 mm ammunition and flares.

    • Media Architects Pvt Ltd: The Singapore-based firm specialises in new media technologies and is the distributor of several software packages.

    • HYT Engg: The Pune-based firm is also involved in manufacture of 155 mm components for the Army.

    • BVT, Poland.

    The Ministry of Defence spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said that though the CBI has not yet filed a chargesheet, evidence such as transfer of money to personal accounts of government employees involving the companies have been detected.

    The Ministry said all acquisitions with these companies have been put on hold. “The matter will be further reviewed as and when the CBI provides more evidence. The Ministry of Defence desires to tackle issues of corruption in procurement cases head-on,” Kar said.
    ----------------
    Also the DRDO cannot test the shells it produces as the orissa government did not give them permission
    DRDO facing problems in testing artillery ammo - Hindustan Times

    The Odisha government’s refusal to allow the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to use the Balasore firing range has come as a blow for the testing of artillery ammunitions, a top DRDO official said here on Wednesday.
    As reported by HT on tuesday, the Odisha government has refused permission to Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE)—a key DRDO facility— to test various types of ammunitions at the Balasore range as the defence ministry is wary about granting nod to four private port projects in the state.
    DRDO chief VK Saraswat said, “We are in talks with the Odisha government to resolve the issue and trying to figure out if technological solutions can help ports and shells co-exist.”
    Saraswat said testing of artillery ammunitions was the main problem being faced by the DRDO. He said the range, set up in 1895, was an ideal location for testing artillery.

    The defence ministry has raised objections to the proposed private ports since they will be set up close to the Wheeler Island missile-testing centre in Bhadrak district and the Chandipur Interim Test Range of Balasore district.

    Odisha government officials said they were trying to convince the defence ministry that the state’s interest should also be looked into. The PXE requires the state government's authorisation every three years to use the Balasore range.
  12. Paan Singh
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    yaara,what you think??how many youngs have internet or know about gandhis??
    Their vote bank is poors and they give daaru or 100Rs note to poors to get vote and some time or may be many times rigged the polls;).so i prefer education.We internet users knows each n every thing but think about the rest of those indians who doesnt knows about the spelling of internet??

    so we will take time and may be we can do earlier if modi like leader come.

    always remember,we are super power which is slowly rising with 800 million + under 30 population.

    and dont care about pakistan...10 years back,they were saying that we wont give trade or mfn but now they have opened their market in free and will give mfn..and wait for other 10 years..they will accept our other conditions as well.

    just wait n watch.
  13. Jon Snow
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    Took me a long time to go through this thread - filled with trolls and counter trolls. The truth of the matter is india does produce all kinds of ammunition inhouse but some components of artillery ammo are sourced from some private firms which are all being blacklisted by the government ( these include indian companies ) - due to this there is a shortfall in artillery ammo only - not small arms or atgm or tank ammo as has been discussed.
    here is a list of all the kinds of ammo which indian ordnance factories produce

    Indian Ordnance Factories: Ammunition, Explosives, Propellants & Chemicals

    Small Calibre

    CARTRIDGE SA 5.56 mm BALL INSAS
    CARTRIDGE SA 5.56 mm TRACER INSAS
    CARTRIDGE 5.56 MM BALL Mk N NATO
    CARTRIDGE 5.56 MM BALL Mk M NATO
    CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm BALL M80
    CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm TRACER M62
    CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm Blank L.A.
    CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm MARKSMAN
    CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm A7 MK-II
    CARTRIDGE SA 9 mm BALL
    CARTRIDGE SA 9 mm TRACER .840 CAP
    CARTRIDGE SA .303 BALL MK 7Z
    CARTRIDGE SA .50 SPOTTER TRACER
    CARTRIDGE SA .380 BALL REVOLVER
    CARTRIDGE RIM FIRE .22 BALL
    CARTG. SA .32 REVOLVER
    CARTG. SA .455 REVOLVER
    CARTG. SA .315 IN AND 30 06 BALL
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE ANTIRIOT
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PLSATIC SPECIAL
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PAPER SPECIAL
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PLASTIC DELUXE
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE 70 mm PLASTIC ASTRAM
    CARTG. SA 12 BORE 70 mm PLASTIC MAGNA
    CARTG. SA 12.7 mm API and APIT

    Mortar Bombs

    BOMB M.L. 2" MORTAR HE
    BOMB ML SMOKE 2" MORTAR
    BOMB ML MORTAR 2" ILLG
    BOMB ML 2" MORTAR SIGNAL SINGLE STAR
    MORTAR BOMB 51 MM HE
    MORTAR BOMB 51 MM SMOKE 1A
    MORTAR BOMB 51 MM ILLG 1A
    MORTAR BOMB 51 MM ILLG RED GREEN
    BOMB 81 mm MORTAR HE
    BOMB 81 MM MORTAR SMOKE PWP
    BOMB 81 MM MORTAR ILLUMINATING 2A
    BOMB MORTAR 120 MM HE
    BOMB MORTAR 120 MM SMOKE PWP
    BOMB MORTAR 120 MM ILLG IA
    81 MM MORTAR TRAINING DEVICE
    120 MM MORTAR TRAINING DEVICE

    Medium Calibre

    CARTRIDGE 14.5 mm TRAINING AMMUNITION
    CARTRIDGE 14.5 MM API
    CARTRIDGE 14.5 MM APIT
    CARTRIDGE 23 MM SCHILKA HE/IT
    CARTRIDGE 23 MM SCHILKA AP/IT
    CARTRIDGE 23 mm GHASHA HEI
    CARTRIDGE 23 MM GHASHA AP I
    30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION HE/T
    30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION AP/T
    30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION HE/I
    CARTRIDGE. 30 MM NAVAL AMMN
    CARTRIDGE 30 MM ADEN GUN PRACTICE MK2Z
    CARTRIDGE 30 MM ADEN GUN HE MK 2Z
    CARTRIDGE 30 MM GHASHA HE / INERT
    CARTRIDGE QF 40 MM L-70 HE
    CARTRIDGE QF 40 mm L/70 TPT
    CARTRIDGE AA 40 mm L-70 PFFC

    Large Calibre

    84 mm TPT 65
    84 mm HE 441B
    84 mm HEAT 651
    84 mm ILLUMINATING 545
    CARTG. 105 mm IFG NORMAL CHARGE
    CARTG. 105 mm IFG SUPER CHARGE
    SHELL 105 mm IFG HE
    SHELL 105 mm IFG HESH
    SHELL 105 mm IFG ILLG
    SHELL 105 mm IFG BE SMOKE
    CARTG. QF 76.2 mm PRACTICE AND HE
    CARTRIDGE 76.2 mm PFHE
    CARTRIDGE 76/62 MM PRACTICE AA FLASH
    CARTRIDGE QF 105 mm SH PRACTICE
    CARTRIDGE 105 mm FSAPDS/T
    CARTRIDGE 105 mm TANK HESH
    CARTRIDGE QF 105 MM APDS/T
    CARTRIDGE QF 105 MM DS/T PRACTICE
    ROUND 106 mm RCL HEAT
    SHELL 73 mm HE
    SHELL 73mm HEAT
    MAIN BATTLE TANK AMMUNITION 120 mm HESH
    MAIN BATTLE TANK AMMUNITION 120 MM FSAPDS
    SHELL 125 mm HE
    SHELL 125 mm HEAT
    CARTG. 125 mm FSAPDS
    SHELL 130 mm HE
    CARTRIDGE FVC RVC FOR 130 mm HE
    155 mm SHELL HE 107
    155 mm SHELL HE M 77B
    155 mm SHELL HEER
    155 mm SHELL SMOKE ER 24KM
    SHELL 155 mm ILLUMINATING MIRA
    SHELL 155 mm HE
    SHELL 155 MM ILLUMINATING ERFB
    SHELL 155 MM SCREENING SMOKE BE M2A2
    155 mm HE ERFB BB
    155 mm HE ERFB BT
    CARTG. 125 MM FSAPDS T MK1
    155 mm HE-ER BASE BLEED PROJECTILE

    Grenades, Signalling Smoke, Other Stores

    CARTG SIGNAL 16mm RED GREEN WHITE
    CARTRIDGE SIGNAL 1" RED GREEN ILLG.
    CARTG SIGNAL 1.5 GREEN RED YELLOW
    GRENADE 36 M HAND AND TUBE LAUNCHING
    81 MM SMOKE GRENADE 3D6 FOR T72
    CANDLE SMOKE GROUND MK 3 L
    TRAINING SMOKE GENERATOR
    GENERATOR SMOKE NO.5
    GRENADE HANDSMOKE RED GREEN
    MARKER SMOKE WHITE
    GENERATOR SMOKE ORANGE 3A
    CSES GRENADE RED GREEN YELLOW
    FLARE GROUND INDICATING NO. MK-1 YELLOW
    PORT FIRE FRICTION
    SIGNAL DISTRESS DAY AND NIGHT
    CARTRIDGE SEAT EJECTION PK 3M 1
    CARTRIDGE R-4 PYRO CUTTER
    FLARE TRIP WIRE MK-1
    SIGNAL FUZEE
    SIGNAL FOG
    HAND FLARE RED MK- II
    PARA FLARE RED
    BUOYANT SMOKE ORANGE
    THUNDER FLASH MK - 4
    MULTI MODE HAND GRENADE

    Rocket Bombs

    ROCKET 68 mm HE
    ROCKET 68 mm HC
    ROCKET 68 mm PRACTICE
    BOMB HE 1000 lbs
    BOMB PRACTICE 25 lbs No. 1 MK-1
    BOMB 3 KG PRACTICE
    BOMB 250 KG HSLD BOMB
    BOMB 450 KG HSLD BOMB
    AERIAL BOMB 100 -120 KG
    AERIAL BOMB 100 -120 KG INERT

    Fuzes

    FUZE FZ 104
    Fuze 213 MK5 (M-1) & (M-2) ad (M-3) & (M-4)
    FUZE L 29 A2/A3
    FUZE PERCUSSION DA NO.117
    FUZE FOR ROCKET 122 mm HE
    PROXIMITY FUZE 76.2
    FUZE DA- 5A
    FUZE 162 MK-8 AND FUZE 162 MK - 9
    FUZE 161 MK 3 M-1
    FUZE PD M 572 FOR 155 mm

    Demolition

    CHARGE DEMOLITION No. 2, 25 Ibs
    CHARGE DEMOLITION No.11, 30 lbs
    CHARGE DEMOLITION No. 14, 11 Ibs
    CHARGE DEMOLITION NO.1 BEEHIVE
    MINE ANTI-TANK 4D ND (BAR)
    SWITCH NO. 4 PULL MK.1
    SWITCH NO. 5 PRESSURE MK 1
    SWITCH NO. 6 RELEASE MK 1
    MAINDEKA ADVANCED LIMPET MINE

    Explosives, Propellants and Chemicals

    CHEMICALS
    EXPLOSIVES
    PROPELLANTS
    LIQUID PROPELLANTS
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  14. Shaurya
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    Shaurya FULL MEMBER

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    Who controls the education system?? what will young Indians learn when they are tough BS by these jungis??
  15. Paan Singh
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    we will tell and how we learned?;)
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