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India, Russia close to agreement on next generation fighter

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by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 5th Jan 2010

Late last year, a defence ministry delegation to Sukhoi’s flagship aircraft facility in Siberia became the first Indians to set eyes upon the next-generation fighter that is slated to form the backbone of the future Indian Air Force (IAF). In that first meeting, carefully choreographed by Sukhoi, the new fighter, standing on the tarmac waved a welcome to the Indians, moving all its control fins simultaneously.:cheers:

The effect, recounts one member of that delegation, was electric. The senior IAF officer there walked silently up to the aircraft and touched it almost incredulously. This was the Sukhoi T-50, the first technology demonstrator of what India terms the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Senior MoD sources tell Business Standard that --- after five years of haggling over the FGFA’s form, capabilities and work-share --- a detailed contract on joint development is just around the corner.

The contract, which Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will sign with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), will commit to building 250 fighters for the IAF and an equal number for Russia. The option for further orders will be kept open. HAL and UAC will be equal partners in a joint venture company, much like the Brahmos JV, that will develop and manufacture the FGFA.

The cost of developing the FGFA, which would be shared between both countries, will be US $8-10 billion (Rs 37,000-45,000 crores). Over and above that, say IAF and MoD sources, each FGFA will cost Rs 400-500 crores.

Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to an MoD official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres :woot:as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

[That means that while a Su-30MKI would be as visible to enemy radar as a metal object 5 metres X 4 metres in dimension, the FGFA’s radar signature would be just 1/40th of that.]

A key strength of the 30-35 tonne FGFA would be data fusion; the myriad inputs from the fighter’s infrared, radar, and visual sensors would be electronically combined and fed to the pilots in easy-to-read form.:yahoo:

The FGFA partnership was conceived a decade ago, in 2000, when Sukhoi’s celebrated chief, Mikhail Pogosyan, invited a visiting Indian Air Force officer out to dinner in Moscow. Boris Yeltsin’s disastrous presidency had just ended, and Russia’s near bankruptcy was reflected in the run-down condition of a once-famous restaurant. But, as the IAF officer recounts, the vodka was flowing and Pogosyan was in his element, a string of jokes translated by a female interpreter.

Late that evening Pogosyan turned serious, switching the conversation to a secret project that, officially, did not even exist. Sukhoi, he confided to the IAF officer, had completed the design of a 5th generation fighter, as advanced as America’s F-22 Raptor, which is still the world’s foremost fighter. Russia’s economy was in tatters, but Sukhoi would develop its new, high-tech fighter if India partnered Russia, sharing the costs of developing the fighter at Sukhoi’s plant, Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Organisation (KnAAPO).

Reaching out to India was logical for Russia. During the 1990s --- when thousands of Russian military design bureaus starved for funds, and a bankrupt Moscow cancelled 1,149 R&D projects --- India’s defence purchases had kept Russia’s defence industry alive, bankrolling the development of the Sukhoi-30 fighter; the Talwar-class stealth frigates; the Uran and Klub ship-borne missiles; and the MiG-21 upgrade.

But co-developing a 5th generation fighter is a different ball game, financially and technologically, and India’s MoD hesitated to sign up. Meanwhile enriched by hydrocarbon revenues, Moscow gave Sukhoi the green light to develop the FGFA, which Russia terms the PAK-FA, the acronym for Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsy (literally Prospective Aircraft Complex of Frontline Aviation).

Today, Russia is five years into the development of the FGFA. In Nov 07, India and Russia signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement on co-developing the fighter, but it has taken two more years to agree upon common specifications, work shares in development, and in resolving issues like Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The prototype that Sukhoi has built is tailored to Russian Air Force requirements. But the IAF has different specifications and the JV will cater for both air forces, producing two different, but closely related, aircraft. For example, Russia wants a single-seat fighter; the IAF, happy with the Su-30MKI, insists upon a twin-seat fighter with one pilot flying and the other handling the sensors, networks and weaponry.

Negotiations have resolved even this fundamental conflict. India has agreed to buy a mix of about 50 single-seat and 200 twin-seat aircraft. Russia, in turn, will consider buying more twin-seat aircraft to use as trainers. But even as both countries narrow their differences, fresh challenges lie ahead: preparing India’s nascent aerospace industry for the high-tech job of developing and manufacturing a 5th-generation fighter.
:victory::victory:
(Coming up tomorrow: FGFA negotiating hardball; Russia says India brings little to the table)
 
finally a conclusive report about FGFA...................
.5 sq.m RCS thats something............
don't you people think........
 
some of the information seems to contradict what we've been hearing. I ve been burned before on FGFA news

also can you post us the link
 
Should the US be scare or worried? The one interesting statement is this though

FGFA negotiating hardball; Russia says India brings little to the table

Is this a fact or Russians lying? Please advice
 
Should the US be scare or worried? The one interesting statement is this though

FGFA negotiating hardball; Russia says India brings little to the table

Is this a fact or Russians lying? Please advice

Well you can find out tomorrow
 
Which part? The us should be scared or worried or that India brought zilch to the table according to the Russians.

I doubt India brings "zilch", India is known for its engineers and intellectuals. Even if India doesn't offer much in terms of technology they will atleast cover half of the cost, and for that i'm greatful because lets face it, this thing isn't cheap.



by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 5th Jan 2010



The effect, recounts one member of that delegation, was electric. The senior IAF officer there walked silently up to the aircraft and touched it almost incredulously. This was the Sukhoi T-50, the first technology demonstrator of what India terms the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Senior MoD sources tell Business Standard that --- after five years of haggling over the FGFA’s form, capabilities and work-share --- a detailed contract on joint development is just around the corner.

This just made my day :yahoo:
 
How is this stealthy

“It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”


The F-22 cross setion is said to be about the size of a marble, about 1.2-1.6mm which is 0.00012 to 0.00016 square meter. How is this plane, which will come into service 20 years after F-22, be able to fly in the same air space as an F-22?

I would suggest redesign. Why spend all the money and can't even fly against F-22
 
How is this stealthy

“It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”


The F-22 cross setion is said to be about the size of a marble, about 1.2-1.6mm which is 0.00012 to 0.00016 square meter. How is this plane, which will come into service 20 years after F-22, be able to fly in the same air space as an F-22?

I would suggest redesign. Why spend all the money and can't even fly against F-22

Rather than pitching it against f22 which wount happen with india ....think what it can do to s30mkk and jf17s :cheers:
 
Rather than pitching it against f22 which wount happen with india ....think what it can do to s30mkk and jf17s :cheers:

But this plane is develop to fight against US origined fighters in case of conflict broke out in Europe, such as Georgia. Otherwise, this plane is not needed. The US would soon sell F-35s all over and this plane would also not be able to handle F-35s, as its RCS is only about 10 times that of F-22. It should be redesigned.

Finally, stop viewing things from the perspective of India. Russia also has its needs.
 
I also remember reading some where that F-15 SE has a radar cross section of 0.01 m2. If this is the case, a stealthy F-15 can see this plane first and shoot it down before the F-15 is spotted. This plane is for anyone that operates an F-15 now so Israel should be getting it along with other allies. Maybe Pakistan can get F-15 SE as they now operates F-16s.
 
How is this stealthy

“It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”


The F-22 cross setion is said to be about the size of a marble, about 1.2-1.6mm which is 0.00012 to 0.00016 square meter. How is this plane, which will come into service 20 years after F-22, be able to fly in the same air space as an F-22?

I would suggest redesign. Why spend all the money and can't even fly against F-22

I have read so much false information about the PakFa, that i will just disregard this artical. This is just an opinion, so don't take it serious, but if this artical did quote an official than he likley made a mistake by confusing 0.05 with 0.5 or the writer made a typo. There is no way the PakFa could have the same RCS as the Rafale, for one the PakFa is said to have V vertical stabalizers which makes a big difference in radar signature compared to the single vertial stabalizer, next the PakFa has a similar nose to the F-22, or SU-34, and lastly the PakFa is covered in ram, not to mention the Rafale has conards which are poor for stealth, so it is theoretically impossible for the PakFa to have a rcs of 0.5. Everyone has to realize that the PakFa is just a prototype, and changes will be made accordingly. The prototype YF-22 differs drastically from the F-22 we all know today.

PS since the Russians have been so secretive over the PakFa i doubt they would just one day reveal the aircrafts RCS.
 
good

i am just waiting for that day when i can see and touch this plane

this plane will increase IAF strength as compare to our friend china

jai hind

That all depends on when China can build its first stealth aircraft..
I don't know why India won't try for US technology
 
That all depends on when China can build its first stealth aircraft..
I don't know why India won't try for US technology

because US tech comes with restrictions and end user agreement where as in case of Russia we get complete TOT and in FFGA India and Russia is 50-50 partner
 

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