India is mad at Russia for withholding info on fifth-generation stealth fighter jets

[Donatello]

The Russian Air Force will take another giant leap toward modernization at the end of this year when it receives the first batch of fifth-generation stealth fighter jets. The Sukhoi T-50, which is a joint program between India and Russia, will boost Russian air capabilities and make it the second country to have a functional fifth-generation jet fighter after the United States, which has the F-22 Raptor and is in final testing of the F-35 Lightning II.

But as the delivery date approaches, Russia’s relationship with India has suffered due to repeated delays and technical shortfalls, as well as Russia's unwillingness, claim Indian officials, to share vital details concerning the aircraft’s development.

“With India already having paid $295 million for the preliminary design and development costs, Russian unwillingness to share design information on the aircraft is not being received well in New Delhi," Monika Chansoria, senior fellow at the Centre for Land Warfare Studies think tank in New Delhi, told Defense News.
According to Chansoria, there has been a great deal of disenchantment in Indian military circles with the repeated delays and lack of cooperation from Russia, which may see India have to wait upwards of 10 years to have its own working version of the T-50.

When the deal for the jets was struck in 2007, it was aimed at heralding a new era for a vastly outdated Russian military, funded by a then-booming Russian economy. But now the aircraft’s introduction into the air force will come at a trying time for Russia financially and will be framed by the ongoing war in East Ukraine, which has been raging since April. While the blame for Russia’s ailing financial situation is primarily attached to falling global oil prices, sanctions placed against the country have prevented it from receiving international assistance and brought it close to recession.

The T-50 delivery also comes at the same time that the U.S.’ F-35 Lightning II is handed over to the U.S. Marine Corps to begin its operational life.



Source:-
India is mad at Russia for withholding info on fifth-generation stealth fighter jets - Business Insider

 

[Donatello]

So a few things to take from this:
1-10 years is a long wait...
2-Maybe India should invest more than peanuts (295million USD)
3-If T-50 is going to take so long, and India is desperate to get it's hands on the design experience, i wonder how long the so called 'Indigenous' AMCA will take.....

Nonetheless, a fifth gen fully operational fighter not possible until at least 2022.....

 

[SipahSalar]

2-Maybe India should invest more than peanuts (295million USD)

I thought it was 50-50.

 

[Donatello]

I thought it was 50-50.

Yea, Russians don't seem to hold their Indian friends on the same pedestal, the 295million USD by India is the Initial R&D funding, to get the file cabinets moving, palm greasing etc

 

[nomi007]

why they share sensitive info with them
the only role of india is money

 

[Echo_419]

The Russian Air Force will take another giant leap toward modernization at the end of this year when it receives the first batch of fifth-generation stealth fighter jets. The Sukhoi T-50, which is a joint program between India and Russia, will boost Russian air capabilities and make it the second country to have a functional fifth-generation jet fighter after the United States, which has the F-22 Raptor and is in final testing of the F-35 Lightning II.

But as the delivery date approaches, Russia’s relationship with India has suffered due to repeated delays and technical shortfalls, as well as Russia's unwillingness, claim Indian officials, to share vital details concerning the aircraft’s development.

“With India already having paid $295 million for the preliminary design and development costs, Russian unwillingness to share design information on the aircraft is not being received well in New Delhi," Monika Chansoria, senior fellow at the Centre for Land Warfare Studies think tank in New Delhi, told Defense News.
According to Chansoria, there has been a great deal of disenchantment in Indian military circles with the repeated delays and lack of cooperation from Russia, which may see India have to wait upwards of 10 years to have its own working version of the T-50.

When the deal for the jets was struck in 2007, it was aimed at heralding a new era for a vastly outdated Russian military, funded by a then-booming Russian economy. But now the aircraft’s introduction into the air force will come at a trying time for Russia financially and will be framed by the ongoing war in East Ukraine, which has been raging since April. While the blame for Russia’s ailing financial situation is primarily attached to falling global oil prices, sanctions placed against the country have prevented it from receiving international assistance and brought it close to recession.

The T-50 delivery also comes at the same time that the U.S.’ F-35 Lightning II is handed over to the U.S. Marine Corps to begin its operational life.



Source:-
India is mad at Russia for withholding info on fifth-generation stealth fighter jets - Business Insider

All of this article is based on pure speculation by some fellow at 'Land Warfare Studies',so let's wait & watch before making assumptions like a idiot

Yea, Russians don't seem to hold their Indian friends on the same pedestal, the 295million USD by India is the Initial R&D funding, to get the file cabinets moving, palm greasing etc

& you know all about that becuz you are a member of Negotiation committee

 

[Donatello]

All of this article is based on pure speculation by some fellow at 'Land Warfare Studies',so let's wait & watch before making assumptions like a idiot



& you know all about that becuz you are a member of Negotiation committee

The fact that very little 'actual' facts are known, we can't resist the discussion................and Indians like you would quote all sorts of non-sense from all sorts of places when it comes to Pakistan, what is the harm when someone does the same to you eh?

 

[Echo_419]

The fact that very little 'actual' facts are known, we can't resist the discussion................and Indians like you would quote all sorts of non-sense from all sorts of places when it comes to Pakistan, what is the harm when someone does the same to you eh?

Very think tank of you & if you want to have a proper discussion please do so when you have a credible source

 

[C130]

can't India just reverse engineer it any how??
the stealth coating is probably based on the F-117 which is from what the 80's??
does Russia stealth compare to the newest U.S stealth?

 

[Windjammer]

Indian Air Force unhappy at progress of PAK-FA fifth-gen fighter - IHS Jane's 360

The fifth flying Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA prototype (side number '055') caught fire on 10 June after landing. Source: UAC


The Indian Air Force (IAF) has expressed concerns to Russia over technical problems and delays plaguing the USD10.5 billion Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme, which is based on the Russian Air Force's Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA platform.

Official sources told IHS Jane's that the IAF's primary objections to fighter's preliminary design features included the inadequacy of its AL-41F1 engines, its stealth features and its weapons carriage system.

Differences also emerged over the operational capability of the Byelka active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Additional IAF concerns include the overall development cost of the aircraft, its maintainability and safety features, the sources said.

As a result, in recent months the IAF has significantly reduced the number of FGFA aircraft it plans to acquire from around 220 to 130-145. It has also dropped its requirement for 45-50 twin-seat FGFA trainers as Russia had demanded an additional USD1 billion and extended deadlines for their development.

The IAF is also annoyed over Russian reluctance to share design information on the T-50 PAK-FA -officially designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF) by India - despite New Delhi being an equal financial partner in its development costs.

India has so far paid USD295 million towards the preliminary design and considers the programme vital to helping the state-run Aeronautical Development Agency kick-start its indigenous fifth-generation single-seat, twin-engine Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.

Officials claim Russia is unwilling even to share details of a fire that erupted aboard a prototype PAK-FA as it landed at the Zhukovsky test centre near Moscow in June. An IAF technical evaluation team at the site was reportedly not permitted access to the fire-affected platform.

Russian officials, however, have reportedly told the IAF that many of its concerns will be resolved soon. They maintain that the prototype PAK-FA's NPO Saturn AL-41FI engine is a temporary solution, meant only for the duration of flight-testing, and that a replacement power pack is under development. Similarly, the AESA radar's proficiency is being improved alongside other systems.

Another cause for friction between the two sides is the reduced work share of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's lead development agency in the FGFA joint venture. The amount has gone from around 25% that was negotiated in 2013 to around 13% in recent months.

Under the new arrangement, HAL will only provide the FGFA only with tyres, basic navigation equipment, laser designation pods, heads-up-displays and additional coolant for the radar, official sources said.

"India should not let itself be taken advantage of by the Russians as it is paying half the FGFA's developmental costs," military analyst Air Marshal V K Bhatia (rtd) said.

But he also cautioned HAL against "over-reach" in the FGFA's development as its intrinsic technological capabilities were "severely limited".

The IAF and HAL declined to comment officially.

ANALYSIS
Senior IAF officers believe that although series production of PAK-FA by Russia's United Aircraft Corporation could begin by 2016-17, production by HAL would only start in 2020-21.

This is primarily due to delays in developing various systems the IAF is insisting on, such as the replacement engine and better AESA radar.

After returning from Moscow in August 2012, then Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne declared that the first FGFA prototype would undergo extensive user trials in 2014 at the IAF's Ojhar air base at Nashik, western India, with two subsequent prototypes, incorporating recommended changes, following in 2017 and 2019.

Ojhar air base was also to have been upgraded to create FGFA flight-testing facilities to allow joint research and development on the platform with Russian scientists and technicians. After this, Browne said, the FGFA's design would be confirmed and series production would start at HAL's Ojhar plant.

However, IAF sources told IHS Jane's that this deadline would be missed by several years.

 

[Aasimkhan]

So a few things to take from this:
1-10 years is a long wait...
2-Maybe India should invest more than peanuts (295million USD)
3-If T-50 is going to take so long, and India is desperate to get it's hands on the design experience, i wonder how long the so called 'Indigenous' AMCA will take.....

Nonetheless, a fifth gen fully operational fighter not possible until at least 2022.....

Indians have paid 295 Million out of a 10.5 Billion project, how can they expect 50-50 partnership ?