India has marked 5000 targets inside Pakistan: IAF Officer

[Firebird_80]

We have missiles that actually work.

Scores of articles have been written about the Indian arsenal being a hoax.

When Pakistan nukes India, it will nuke it with its entire arsenal, not just one or two nukes. Making sure India is in no state to respond. Of course this won't happen right off the bat, but its an option we always keep open. If you don't like it, don't mess with us to begin with.

asim one point .... you have about 100 nuclear warheads of all types ie missile and air delivered ...... now if you want to only level delhi you shall need about 20 nuclear warheads ..... correct me if am wrong ...... but i think that leaves 80 left and then do you expect to wipe out every city with that?

also to ensure india is not in positiion to respond, you shall have to take out indian arsenal which is above 400 as of date .... and i am only talking about air and artillery compatibles ...... now where all exactly do you plan to use your limited stocks? or is there some technique where your warheads multiply in air ? being a senior member i think its not befitting for you to indulge in BS even if someone provokes you. please make your post reason based, mature and sensible ....... you are the administraor for gods sakes

 

[Firebird_80]

Take your army out for one second and see how the so called "terrorism" leaves too.

asim also want to point out in 1947 it was a pakistan sponsored invasion that led to indian army being airlifted after instrument of ascession was signed. had pakistan not hurried at the time, india could not do anything and the local populance in time under Sheikh Abdullah would have revolted against Maharaja Hari Singh to either be independent or join Pakistan.

As for pakistan wanting independence for kashmir, you and i both know that is a nonsense. neither india nor pakistan can leave it independent for china to gobble it up. china is helping pakistan only to contain india, otherwise, if india is removed from equation, they would start eyeing kashmir as they have claims to it too in large areas. and you did sell of northern part of kashmir under you to them .........

till 1989 miniscule indian troops were there before the afghan veterans were turned to kashmir by ISI and PA (as no other way could they come from afghanistan to india they dont have massive air arm to transport or ability to ride brrom sticks and if you want to say ISI and PA were not involved then it means you are not in control of your country and territory that they roam all over easily in your country) the stage by stage escalation in violence against kashmiri pandits, an act of genocide against old and generations of kashmiri hindus, forced increase in armed forces there. an indian soldier has least interest in dying in a place where they cant buy land and cant settle (under Artcle 370 of indian constitution they have their own constitution and no one can buy land there who is non-kashmiri)

 

[Firebird_80]

Saying it again..... why does India feel invincible with there Flankers and BVR capability. Now would be the ideal time to use this advantage..... but hold on.... does PAF's readiness and "old fleet of fighters" give you cold feet???
PAF will be closing this gap very soon.

its a question which has no answer since 1986 Ex Brasstacks which almost created panic in pakistan as indian forces were poised to cut pakistan into two had escalation taken that day. its not if india will overwhelm you or not, that will be the case in every scenario, but what after? integration of these areas is not possible, and breakup of the region into 5 or more independent states is not unlikely. that will lead to further destabilistaion as then al-qaeda and other groups have easier access to vast pools of manpower and resources as there shall be no strong central government to fight them off.

today PA and GoP are containing them to an extent under US pressure. Its not PA or PAF give jitters, its the mess that will follow that is a nightmare as now Pakistan is a buffer for us from the scourge of afghanistan, and you are bearing a lot of fallout already with militancy in FATA and NWFP as also regular terrorist strkes, but if you break, this all comes into our territory. and no wisdom dictates that you fight in your own territory .........

 

[Firebird_80]

You have to tell us what do u count as 'war hysteria'?
Is it our reduced military spending or very indian friendly President of Pakistan?
BTW, ur President have issued a.m. statement after the interception of ur fighter jets.
Why did those jets were flying (with weapons) in Pakistan airspace after war threats from your foreign secretary and widow of gandhi?

how do you know they had weapons? it can only be possible if

a. IAF pilots called and told you that personally

b. PAF ACs who "intercepted" them, were within 500 mts of the IAF ACs in which case they are horrible pilots (which I dont think as they are professional and i respect them) that could not shoot down the ACs as was their right (as violation took place)

c. PAF ACs were flying escort to IAF ACs and they could see all armament

d. IAF ACs were maybe carrying agni missile strapped on pylons and not AAMs/AGMs as only that size missile can be seen from 16 or more kms.

e. Or your AD people were so moronic that they could not recognise their own ACs and mistook PAF for IAF and made a noise and then realised the mistake ....... now that is more possible as it happens.Human error.

also how can you have news flashing on your TV in 5 minutes of the time of violation of airspace? is your media connected to your air defence radars as well? the normal protocol says see if there is violation, if yes, try and identify if hostile and immediately to activate SAM batteries and scramble interceptors .... now all this itself takes more than 10 mins yet within 5 mins of violation you had news claiming violation and interception by PAF ACs ........ its a mismatch here ....... of information ....

 

[Firebird_80]

Pakistan has 100 nuclear war heads but, it has many missles which could also be used.

dear the 100 warheads include air weapons and missile warheads. You dont have the minniaturistaion for MIRV and Tactical 155mm warheads yet ....... so tell me even if you have 1000 missiles, what will you put in them? be practical

 

[Awesome]

asim one point .... you have about 100 nuclear warheads of all types ie missile and air delivered ...... now if you want to only level delhi you shall need about 20 nuclear warheads ..... correct me if am wrong ...... but i think that leaves 80 left and then do you expect to wipe out every city with that?

also to ensure india is not in positiion to respond, you shall have to take out indian arsenal which is above 400 as of date .... and i am only talking about air and artillery compatibles ...... now where all exactly do you plan to use your limited stocks? or is there some technique where your warheads multiply in air ? being a senior member i think its not befitting for you to indulge in BS even if someone provokes you. please make your post reason based, mature and sensible ....... you are the administraor for gods sakes

Why would I need 20 warheads to hit Delhi?

One over the main governmental areas is enough.

Somewhere along the Presidential estate should be good, taking out the Parliament, Presidential complex, DRDO and of course the R&AW headquarters.

 

[Firebird_80]

Why would I need 20 warheads to hit Delhi?

One over the main governmental areas is enough.

Somewhere along the Presidential estate should be good, taking out the Parliament, Presidential complex, DRDO and of course the R&AW headquarters.

asim you have to talk justify how can one warhead leave india in no state to respond?

also there are AD units in capital so you shall have to launch 20 warheads and then expect maybe 8 or so to hit the targets. the remianing will be intercepted ...... that is a guarantee

another thing is that there exists a nuclear shelter with C4I facilities connecting the PM and other chief functioncaries in real time with all strategic forces and other military forces in india ......it is about 170 meteres below ground level. how do you expect to remove that?

also you have to understand that employment of nuclear weapon is not easy for pakistan, its the last desperate resort in case they are overwhelmed. frist strike does not mean you will use in first few mins, but you will use as last resort maybe against advancein IA troops or as terror threat over cities in which case indian response will be massive and final ..... not an easy option practically for anyone .....

 

[Firebird_80]

You just need to hit the rich parts, everything else would be fine.

Plus Asim could you read my PM and reply plz??

actually no ..... you need to decimate the opposition till a level that he cant retaliate or is too paralysed to strike back at you ....... its not possible in this case ........ whatever the thing, its too horrible in terms of outcome to dwelve into easily

 

[tamir]

its a question which has no answer since 1986 Ex Brasstacks which almost created panic in pakistan as indian forces were poised to cut pakistan into two had escalation taken that day. its not if india will overwhelm you or not, that will be the case in every scenario, but what after? integration of these areas is not possible, and breakup of the region into 5 or more independent states is not unlikely. that will lead to further destabilistaion as then al-qaeda and other groups have easier access to vast pools of manpower and resources as there shall be no strong central government to fight them off.

A very blunt message was conveyed to the Indian PM by Gen Zia during the cricket diplomacy. I might not have my facts in complete order..... but Pakistan Army was already in position to counter any Indian aggression.... a few place undetected by the Indian forces.

 

[Firebird_80]

A very blunt message was conveyed to the Indian PM by Gen Zia during the cricket diplomacy. I might not have my facts in complete order..... but Pakistan Army was already in position to counter any Indian aggression.... a few place undetected by the Indian forces.

Actually Pakistan was able to enrich some uranium only by 1985 and by the time of Ex. Brasstacks, they were not in a position even to assemble one bomb, let alone deliver it as per admissions by Gen Mirza Aslam Beg the COAS of PA from 1988-91. The crisis saw India poised to cut into pakistan and divide it into two portions whereupon backchannel diplomacy was opened and de-escalation took place. There was no threat of nuclear weapons from Pakistan and it is widely acknowledged that Indian forces had easily shown the conventional superiority to the world. Infact it was purely a militry exercise in which even Pakistani diplomats were invited to observe. Its quoted as the largest exercise post WWII ever.

Only 1990 did Pakistan have nuclear weapons and that too they were told to back down by US after US ran wargames inwhich even US forces were taken into account acting in support of PA and it was found that in every scenario PA was at disadvantage and bound to loose. The same was conveyed by Bush to Pakistan leadership and including in nuclear exchange was it conveyed that pakistan was the loser at the end of the day. the crisis of 1990 was defused only by:

a. Persuance of Pakistani leadership to scale back as they were bound to loose in nuclear war (conviced and proved by US with prrof of theri wargames results)

b. India was asked to back down to avoid nuclear war, which was foregone had india launched raids into pakistan and it was beyond belief held PA would use nuclear weapons as soon as they were faced with reversals.

The philosophy is that Pakistanis wont live to see next day, but they will try and kill as many as can before they go.

 

[Awesome]

asim you have to talk justify how can one warhead leave india in no state to respond?

also there are AD units in capital so you shall have to launch 20 warheads and then expect maybe 8 or so to hit the targets. the remianing will be intercepted ...... that is a guarantee

another thing is that there exists a nuclear shelter with C4I facilities connecting the PM and other chief functioncaries in real time with all strategic forces and other military forces in india ......it is about 170 meteres below ground level. how do you expect to remove that?

also you have to understand that employment of nuclear weapon is not easy for pakistan, its the last desperate resort in case they are overwhelmed. frist strike does not mean you will use in first few mins, but you will use as last resort maybe against advancein IA troops or as terror threat over cities in which case indian response will be massive and final ..... not an easy option practically for anyone .....

One bomb on Delhi!

India is only Delhi?

We'll hit all other locations too. Dude your defense shield is not going to work. American defence shields barely worked against Iraqi SCUDs... Pakistani missiles are faster and even harder to hit, they will hit you before you even begin to move into defensive positions.

 

[Firebird_80]

One bomb on Delhi!

India is only Delhi?

We'll hit all other locations too. Dude your defense shield is not going to work. American defence shields barely worked against Iraqi SCUDs... Pakistani missiles are faster and even harder to hit, they will hit you before you even begin to move into defensive positions.

actually delhi is under continuous shield.

precisely my point, india is not delhi. i agree with you. that is why i said if you want to remove the decision makers, you need to really decimate delhi for which you may need a lions share of your resources.

dropping a single warhead per city wont paralyse india. i am only replying to your quote and saying the assertion is impractical. there is assymetric MAD here. while you can cause major damage, India's response may cause unacceptable damage to Pakistan. Size and demography does matter as also the geography.

 

[Firebird_80]

One bomb on Delhi!

India is only Delhi?

We'll hit all other locations too. Dude your defense shield is not going to work. American defence shields barely worked against Iraqi SCUDs... Pakistani missiles are faster and even harder to hit, they will hit you before you even begin to move into defensive positions.

I agree shield does not say 100% blockage. It means more than 60% and so I said if you launch 20 missiles, about 8 we expect to hit delhi. This is verified by computer simulations in case of sudden attack. With notice (as the situation now is with 100% alert levels) this goes further better but i am taking of 60% figure as that is worse case scenario. and that is also not enough to paralyse indian decision making. the reataliatory strike will definitely clear out your cities though as there is overwhelming superiority in nuclear weapons too. In sheer numbers and quality. And the ABM defence in Pakistan is non-existent at best. Indian ABM is not limited to the new ABM being developed based on prithvi as that is for intercetpion of exo-atmospheric (read IRBMs/ICBMs) MIRV targetting.

 

[Firebird_80]

One bomb on Delhi!

India is only Delhi?

We'll hit all other locations too. Dude your defense shield is not going to work. American defence shields barely worked against Iraqi SCUDs... Pakistani missiles are faster and even harder to hit, they will hit you before you even begin to move into defensive positions.

and the scud had conventional warhead which is just like a crude bomb, meant to explode on impact. they struck the missile fuselage to untercept yet the warhead survived at times to go into free fall and impact on ground to explode. granted

but a nuclear weapon is altogether a different thing. it has mechanisms to arm it before it can explode. it cant explode like a crude bomb on impact. if it has to explode, it has to travel in certain time in space and in certain guidelines which are programmed into it. it is meant to keep them from exploding incase of any accident. if for example a warhead is being transferred by air and the AC crashes the weapon WILL NOT explode on impact. So the basis of ABM interception is that you remove the delivery weapon and once the warhead is in freefall , it wont explode. It will impact on earth and can be recovered. But incase the interception is after release of the warhead from the missile assembly as programmed then even if you intercept, the warhead is armed and will explode, so we take into account the chances of that happening at 40% in case of swarm attack ie 20 or more missiles fired simultaneously upon a target and then the interception is low. However if you fire 4 missiles with nuclear warheads, then all the AD assests will shoot them down with a ratio of more than 4:1 as in 4 anti-ballastic missiles against each missile. so the kill probablity of 99% is increased by a factor of 4 making 100% interception.

Its all basic logic and air defense and anti-ballastic missile defence. and i have not even taken into account the 2 minute warning for IAF AC to go into AD role to remove incoming BMs. That further increases the kill probability.

 

[Awesome]

I agree shield does not say 100% blockage. It means more than 60% and so I said if you launch 20 missiles, about 8 we expect to hit delhi. This is verified by computer simulations in case of sudden attack. With notice (as the situation now is with 100% alert levels) this goes further better but i am taking of 60% figure as that is worse case scenario. and that is also not enough to paralyse indian decision making. the reataliatory strike will definitely clear out your cities though as there is overwhelming superiority in nuclear weapons too. In sheer numbers and quality. And the ABM defence in Pakistan is non-existent at best. Indian ABM is not limited to the new ABM being developed based on prithvi as that is for intercetpion of exo-atmospheric (read IRBMs/ICBMs) MIRV targetting.

Dude I'd be surprised if you're able to hit even one...

This was India's top choice for anti-defense shield:

Israeli Arrow a Colossal Failure finally Dead and Buried RUPEE NEWS: Recording History, Narrating Archives, Strategic Intellibrief Analysis: Noticias de Rupia | Nouvelles de Roupie | Rupiennachrichten | ??????? ????? | ???? | Ru

Take it from me, when fire a missile, its reaching its target. The distance is so small that it is an impossibility for either side to stop it. It will require an act of God to stop missiles coming in, nothing less.