What's new

In the name of God!

Awesome

RETIRED MOD
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,023
Reaction score
5
Just saw "Khuda ke liye", the controversial movie on Google Videos. It was so heart breaking. To see the fight between moderate Muslims and Extremism. Not just extremist Muslims but also the extremist west.

We are pretty much taking the brunt from both sides. What the extremist Muslims did to America on 9/11 wasn't right and what America did to its own Muslims was equally worse. I've seen some morons claim Muslims are playing the victim card way too often. In reality, someone should ask them what has changed for the Muslims since 9/11?

Muslims can still be picked up from the streets of America, when they enter their airports (I myself was put in through a 6 hours long interviewing and "special" registration process) or when they goto the mosque to pray. They don't need to confirm or deny whether they have kept the Muslim in some ******* cell. They still don't need to send Muslim detainees to court. They still can use torture of any kind.

It's a true fact that many Pakistanis who have returned from America after being detained have gone mentally ill to some degree.

Of course the movie also focuses on our own vices as well. Why is it that good well behaved Pakistani boys are being told they are not good enough till they don't grow a beard, till they don't adopt the Mullah outlook, till they renounce the world for their religion. Khude ke liye, quite well points out about the beard. It says the beard is the height of one's devotion towards looking like the Prophet not the beginning. In the beginning comes the fundamentals of Islam, which is being a good human being first.
 
What about the poor sikhs who have to take off their turbans because the resemble OBL. I think USA has made the world a dangerous place by invading Iraq.
 
What about the poor sikhs who have to take off their turbans because the resemble OBL. I think USA has made the world a dangerous place by invading Iraq.
And the worst thing is, the Sardars being the innocent people they are have been led into hating the Muslims for this injustice done by their western countries.

The wrong lies with racial profiling and detaining without court proceedings. The wrong lies within hate crimes. A regular Pakistani living his life in the streets of America wouldn't even have known who is Osama Bin Laden before 9/11.

On the flip side why is it necessary for us to show devotion towards Allah by growing fanatical? Why ban Music? Some of the most beautiful notes can be heard in our own Azaan (The call to prayer). The best Quran readers were those who read it in a beautiful tune. Why must our youth be told to blacken posters of women on the streets? Why can't it be left to the woman's choice? She is not exposing naked, but just showing a face.

I don't know a truly evil Muslim (ok well that's maybe not true, considering some of former bosses) in my life. We are all good enough people in Pakistan then why is there such tremendous zeal amongst the Mullahs to convert us into something?
 
And the worst thing is, the Sardars being the innocent people they are have been led into hating the Muslims for this injustice done by their western countries.

The wrong lies with racial profiling and detaining without court proceedings. The wrong lies within hate crimes. A regular Pakistani living his life in the streets of America wouldn't even have known who is Osama Bin Laden before 9/11.

On the flip side why is it necessary for us to show devotion towards Allah by growing fanatical? Why ban Music? Some of the most beautiful notes can be heard in our own Azaan (The call to prayer). The best Quran readers were those who read it in a beautiful tune. Why must our youth be told to blacken posters of women on the streets? Why can't it be left to the woman's choice? She is not exposing naked, but just showing a face.

I don't know a truly evil Muslim (ok well that's maybe not true, considering some of former bosses) in my life. We are all good enough people in Pakistan then why is there such tremendous zeal amongst the Mullahs to convert us into something?

Nice introspective post AA. Keep it up.

Best Regards
 
The religious ban on music is promoted by Muslim scholars in Saudi Arabia such as Shaykh Munajjid who runs an “Islam Question & Answer” website which declares that music – even ring tones on mobile phones – are totally forbidden according to Islam:
"It is not permissible to use musical tunes for telephones or any other devices, because listening to musical instruments is haram, as is indicated by the evidence of sharee’ah."


What is controversial for Islamic scholars is instrumental music, serious metered songs, pre-Islamic and non-Islamic music. Depending on the interpretation of the Hadith this ‘controversial’ music can be labelled halal (allowed), makruh (blameworthy) or else haram (forbidden).
The second split is between what is haram (forbidden) and what is halal (allowed), the latter on a sliding scale which includes makruh (blameworthy). In Islam, for example, divorce is ‘blameworthy’ but it is also halal, so certain form of music can fall within grades of halal. Women singing at religious feasts may be either makruh (blameworthy) but still halal, (allowed) or, in other cases, haram, (forbidden).
The question is where does heavy metal, rock, rap, hip-hop, jazz, rai, cha’abi (folk, popular) and pop fit into this pattern? Is a style problematic in itself or is it the contents of the lyrics? And what about highly commercialised and sexualised video clips?
The ultimate premise for a theologian is based upon the Qur’anic command, ‘Never forbid what God has allowed. Never allow what God has forbidden.’ It is an individual’s duty to adhere to the four grades of hisba (Al amr bi’l-ma’ruf wa’l-nahy ‘an al-munkar, ‘the commanding the good and the forbidding of evil’) to prevent fitna (strife), the breakdown of society. He cites the civil war in Algeria, strife in Palestine and the emergence of the Taliban as examples of Islamist movements which have legitimated their aggressions against opponents by claiming they protect society from fitna.

In Iraq a religious scholar even accepted the showing of a film showing young people being brutalised and killed for listening to music and dancing in a public park as legitimate warning to people committing fitna.
Otterbeck encouraged people to go to various sources for further knowledge on this debate: Islam Online and, for example, the home pages of Yusuf Al-Qaradawi and Muhammad Nasir Ad-Din Al-Albani.
Finally, Otterbeck noted that when we look at public actions taken, it is important not to focus entirely on religion.“The discourse in itself is seldom the only motive for action. Other motives might be economical, political, social, protectionist, moral panics, and so on,” he said.

Music – halal or haram?

“There is no ban on music in the Qur’an, and those talking about which music is haram and which music is halal have very weak evidence” Shaikh Ibrahim Ramadan Al-Mardini, from the Beirut Studies and Documentation Centre in Lebanon, told the conference.
He said that “a music culture is necessary for people to develop themselves,” adding that “any limitation on the arts is the opposite of what religion calls for.”
Al-Mardini said that “music doesn’t know male or female,” and that it is not for religious scholars to control people but to guide them. “The individual has to rule his or her own life through their own judgement,” he said, noting that Islamic scholars in the last century often had a very good knowledge of culture and art, and that “culture is something owned by everyone, and not something that a few persons should decide upon.”
The religious scholars interpret the rules and correct people when they go astray. Justifying some forms of music, Al-Mardini quoted the Prophet saying to one of his Companions, “You came with a very good ear.” The mufti (Shari’a judge) is entrusted with disclosing the judgements of God, basing his views on the Qur’an, the Hadith and the Sunna. Music is not banned in Islam; strong counter-evidence exists showing that it is allowed. In Islam reading was traditionally accompanied by music.

Shaikh Al-Mardini questions the sources invoked to ban music. For example, 80 Hadiths were used to prove it unlawful but of these seventy were dhaif (weak) or very weak.
There is no Qur’anic text banning music, he insisted.
In Islam the Sultan only intervenes when humans deviate from God’s judgement; the Sultan and the faqih (Islamic jurist) are symbiotic.
Censorship, Shaikh Al-Mardini noted critically, exists to preserve regimes.
“Censorship has turned into a totalitarian tool which is preserving the existence of regimes – we see this all over the world. Who can impose a just censorship without being biased?” the Shaikh asked.
Shaikh Al-Mardini said that he completely rejects censorship, arguing that it is not the mission of the faqih to condemn things; his job is merely to guide the faithful. A fatwa is no good unless it develops. It must not be static. The faqih has to be flexible. The faqih must be with the times and understand them.
Any constraints on arts is against religion, he said, and concluded that music is a universal discourse; it is the language of this discourse and anyone can express himself, whether he is right or wrong. Those who have said that Islam forbids music are completely false; the evidence is not correct, he said.
From the earliest history in all cultures we have seen people who wanted to ban music but societies have always co-existed with music.


Mentally in former centuries

Jonas Otterbeck wondered how the Shaikh looked upon so-called sensuous music or music using satanic symbols. “Lyrics can be provocative but it is not forbidden – they can be good or bad – but music in itself cannot be banned,” the Shaikh replied.
Concluding the session the Shaikh noted that fundamentalism does not have a region.
“We find this in all societies”, he said, “some religious scholars are living mentally in former centuries and are issuing fatwas according to former times. Fatwas have to be issued according to the changes of society.”
He referred to books indicating that there are issues where faqihs cannot intervene.
“Muslim youth are influenced by Sufi poets such as Rumi who wrote that the spirit of the believer is like the nay; when he is far from his country he is filled with nostalgia. Innovation is the basis of arts; if you ban innovation you stop art. Music is a universal discourse, without nationality, sex, identity or religion. It should be expressed freely whether it is right or wrong.”
Finally the Shaikh noted that music culture is necessary to develop culture. In former centuries the Shaikhs had a very good knowledge of arts, he said.

This article is based on information from www.freemuse.org and from the publication ‘All that is Banned is Desired’ (which is a summary of the Conference on Freedom of Expression in Music in Beirut 2005) which can be downloaded in pdf-format from this website. (See link below)

Freemuse: The burning music question in Islam: prohibited or not?
 
The freemuse society has done a lot to promote this one simple Islamic FACT. That not a single Ayat of the Quran exists in which Music is banned AND the very same Quran that we hold so sacred and rejoice in its unadulterated nature... Has been ADDED subtle phrases in between Ayats to change the meaning to sound like its Anti-Music. This is not done in the Arabic versions but are definitely done in all of their translations.

The Day of Resurrection draws near, None besides Allah can avert it, (or advance it, or delay it). Do you then wonder at this recital (the Qur'an)? And you laugh at it and weep not, Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing, etc.). So fall you down in prostration to Allah, and worship Him (Alone).

Just look at the amount of words inserted in parenthesis and note "Singing" to be one of them. I strongly urge that we go forth with this evidence to spread that the ban against Music is not only foul but perhaps un-Islamic in itself! In fact there is definite foul play involved with its ban.

You will find many Sahih hadiths where the Prophet was talking against Music and you'd find many where the Prophet was speaking FOR music. I would really like to question the validity of the title of SAHIH attributed to these hadiths about a millennium ago. I do not want to scrap them, but to use them as possible scenarios on which further study is required.

They cannot be Sahih and contradict the Quran. They cannot be Sahih and contradict the Prophet.

There is also the possibility that the anti-Music motion in the Hadiths was politically influenced. We learn from our Subcontinents history how Aurangzeb felt threatened by the Music of Sufis who had the habit of speaking anti-establishment poetry in their songs. He urged banning Music despite Islam and Sufi music thriving in the subcontinent.

Similar occurrences could've resulted in the formation of these Hadiths. Hadiths is afterall man-made and there is no guarantee on the protection of Hadiths as you have it on the Quran by Allah.
 
Sunni Faith ( 80%) of all muslims is based as much on the Quraan as on the Hadith or tradition of the Prophet ( PBUH). Once one believes that Prohphet ( PBUH) took guidance from Allah, it implies that every action of the Prophet ( PBUH) after the age of 40, when he received first revealation, as well his sayings and orders had Allah's blessing, therefore should be obeyed.

This makes the Hadith as important as the holy Quraan. However all the Hadith were collected more than a century after Prophet ( PBUH) had passed away. This is the main problem. One of the main reasons of may different sects even within the Sunnis is different interpretation of the Quraan in the light of the Prophet's ( PBUH) traditions.
 
The thread is on the movie i dont understand why this is in Tehology section ??
And how intresting as usual Mr Ray aka Salim again brough religion rather speaking against Islam candidly.
What does his post to do with the movie??
 
The thread is on the movie i dont understand why this is in Tehology section ??
And how intresting as usual Mr Ray aka Salim again brough religion rather speaking against Islam candidly.
What does his post to do with the movie??
Actually the movie is all about modern debates on Islam. I wanted the debate to spark up to see what you all think about the matter.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom