In global popularity contest, U.S. and China vie for first

[Chinese-Dragon]

Quick Question:
Do you choose your own leaders or does CCP chose them for you to be elected "democratically" from the choices provided?
The freedom you mention is more like choosing a bride in an arranged marriage from a list of those pre selected by your parents vs. love marriage. Of course its a matter of perspective and preference, not saying one is better than the other.
BUT the freedom democracies value is the latter.
Now if the CCP is choosing your leaders, how easy would it be for them to control the narrative as well?
How free can the press be if the socio-political landscape is so well manicured by the rulers in Beijing? and in turn how easy would it be to channel the populations thought process through the media?

Again, this is not a criticism or a needle at the situation in HK. HK truly is a fantastic city that I love and enjoy whenever I'm there. But you cannot make the argument that HK is truly free and independent until the above changes.

I look forward to hearing your opinion on this. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

In the Hong Kong election, all the potential candidates for Chief Executive have been approved by the national government in Beijing.

So yes, we do vote for things that have been pre-approved.

But then I ask myself, do I want to risk having a leader like Donald Trump, Duterte or Modi?

All of the approved choices for Chief Executive in Hong Kong have been reasonable people, not people that I would worry about launching a nuke out of some affront to their personal ego.

And I would prefer it if Hong Kong remained a livable place.

I've been to HK, great place. My cousin works there, loves it too.

May Xi Jinping's economic dreams all come to fruition and may your people live long and prosper but the nazi thing is just nonsense, you know it too.

Overall, as a set of ideas, the American 'freeduhm' concept will still far outsell your evolved/hybrid communocapitalist/callitwhatyouwill system of governance in a free marketplace of human ideas and aspiration.

That's fair enough, though the world has clearly seen that Donald Trump and his White House do not believe in any of those American ideals. Times are changing.

Still I will prefer US , at least i wont have to use VPN to access Baidu .

If you are an Indian or a Sikh you are very likely to be the target of a hate crime in the USA. Whether it is someone shouting "terrorist" or physical assault and murder. Now, when was the last time an Indian/Sikh was killed in a hate crime in China?

 

[Peshwa]

In the Hong Kong election, all the potential candidates for Chief Executive have been approved by the national government in Beijing.

So yes, we do vote for things that have been pre-approved.

But then I ask myself, do I want to risk having a leader like Donald Trump, Duterte or Modi?

All of the approved choices for Chief Executive in Hong Kong have been reasonable people, not people that I would worry about launching a nuke out of some affront to their personal ego.

And I would prefer it if Hong Kong remained a livable place.

Again, that's a preference that you are well entitled to. HK being more than a liveable place is also true. But a lot of that has to be credited to the British, the culture and insitutions that were put in place pre handover that were also part of the deal wrt. the handover.

Wrt. the highlighted, you're looking at the situation from a microchasm of time.
Yes. having a trump or modi is probably not the ideal situation, but at the same time, this was the choice of the people. Not a select group of people that may or may not represent the ideas and needs of the people being ruled. There are checks and balances to the removal/replacement of those same individuals within the framework of democracy. What options do you have in order to change this leadership to reflect a frame of thought and ideas that do not match that of the CCP?
Yes Trump is probably not the president I want personally to lead the US, nor modi for India. But you're comparing the current leader (Trump) to Xi who may very well be a much better leader at the moment. But what if Xi turn out to be a dictator? Then what? India or US can kick them out. You cannot kick Xi out or CCP for that matter.

Again, happiness is not measured by these parameters alone. But political freedom is a great stepping stone to it.
HK isn't truly free yet.

PS: Also, Donald Trump cannot unilaterally call a nuclear strike, nor Modi. . The circumstances would have to excruciating for them to do that. So no, they cannot call a nuclear strike to salvage their ego. That's a total misconception

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

HK isn't truly free yet.

True, but that's a long-term goal, I would rather see China as a whole become a developed economy first, then think about political liberalization later.

But what if Xi turn out to be a dictator? Then what? India or US can kick them out. You cannot kick Xi out or CCP for that matter.

You can say the checks and balances are not as good as those in say, a matured Western democracy (which were developed over hundreds of years), however they do exist.

The power center in China is never one person, but a group of people, i.e. the Politburo. So that if one person goes out of control, like Zhou Yongkang, the rest will clamp down on him. The top leader cannot just do whatever they want, in modern China they must have the support of the rest of the system. The Standing Committee (and the rest of the Politburo), the National People's Congress, the State Council, etc.

If Xi Jinping decided tomorrow that he wanted all Chinese people to drink Coca Cola every day, it could never happen. No one person in China has that kind of power.

 

[Peshwa]

True, but that's a long-term goal, I would rather see China as a whole become a developed economy first, then think about political liberalization later.

And I do truly hope HK and the rest of China does move towards democracy eventually.

Trust, if China becomes a democracy, unseating the US as the world leader will be but an eventual outcome. To this China should look to USSR as a precedence.

You can say the checks and balances are not as good as those in say, a matured Western democracy (which were developed over hundreds of years), however they do exist.

The power center in China is never one person, but a group of people, i.e. the Politburo. So that if one person goes out of control, like Zhou Yongkang, the rest will clamp down on him. The top leader cannot just do whatever they want, in modern China they must have the support of the rest of the system. The Standing Committee (and the rest of the Politburo), the National People's Congress, the State Council, etc.

If Xi Jinping decided tomorrow that he wanted all Chinese people to drink Coca Cola every day, it could never happen. No one person in China has that kind of power

No but he can make Coca Cola the only brand, thus forcing people to eventually having to choose Coca Cola as the drink of choice.
And therein lies the difference.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Trust, if China becomes a democracy, unseating the US as the world leader will be but an eventual outcome.

I don't really consider that a priority.

I think political liberalization will be necessary after China becomes a developed economy, but for purposes of internal stability rather than any external factors. IMO.

No but he can make Coca Cola the only brand, thus forcing people to eventually having to choose Coca Cola as the drink of choice.
And therein lies the difference.

Xi Jinping's power is more limited than most realize, which is why he fell in the "most powerful person in the world" rankings, behind Trump and Putin.

If Xi Jinping tried to make an American brand like Coca Cola the only soft drink brand in China, he would lose his job for sure. He would be lucky to avoid jail for something like that, probably the same jail that Bo Xilai and Zhou Yongkang are in.

 

[war&peace]

Tunisia is Middle East?

Yes

USA is getting unpopular pretty fast and with Trump in power, the descent will be even faster...

 

[Peshwa]

I don't really consider that a priority.

I think political liberalization will be necessary after China becomes a developed economy, but for purposes of internal stability rather than any external factors. IMO.

Agreed, but perception matters.
Most countries in todays landscape value democracy as a tenant of their socio-political outlook.
Economic might has taken China far currently. But to be hailed as a leader of the "free world", China will have to be free itself (the people that is).

But in essence, yes. Unseating the US should not be a goal. Providing its citizens a better life with more freedom should be. Same goes for India.

Xi Jinping's power is more limited than most realize, which is why he fell in the "most powerful person in the world" rankings, behind Trump and Putin.

If Xi Jinping tried to make an American brand like Coca Cola the only soft drink brand in China, he would lose his job for sure. He would be lucky to avoid jail for something like that, probably the same jail that Bo Xilai and Zhou Yongkang are in.

Its not about where the brand comes from, but more to do with the choices provided IMO. I was simply using Coca Cola to piggy back on your example.
My point was that people should be free to make those choices on their own accord rather than be coaxed into it through government policy.
As an example, there should be complete freedom in media. Google and You Tube should compete freely with Beidou and let the market forces decide who wins as opposed to giving Google a playing field with "one arm tied"
But again, at this point, I do resort the country and its rule as the veto to this argument.
But since we are speaking of freedom, that would be an ideal example.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Yes
..

Tunisia west of Libya.

 

[war&peace]

Tunisia west of Libya.

Libya, Egypt, Tunisia all count in the Middle East (remember it is Middle East and not Middle Asia) So it has nothing to do if those are located in Africa or Asia since they have geographical proximity and common culture. They are middle Eastern countries as opposed to the Far East and South Asia. Some times even Pakistan is lumped into Middle East, I guess our state department still does that.

 

[cloud4000]

When you are a superpower, you are either hated or loved, often it's a bit of both. And such feelings are fleeting: love you today, hate you tomorrow, love you again the day after. What do these polls really mean anyway?

 

[Zibago]

Tunisia west of Libya.

You guys invented the term greater middle east now even half of Pakistan lies in the so called greater middle east

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

You guys invented the term greater middle east now even half of Pakistan lies in the so called greater middle east

I think "East" refers to the lands east of Europe. Tunisia isn't East of Europe. As for Pakistan being Middle East I guess you could say that since you aren't considered in the Far East (the Orient)

 

[Zibago]

I think "East" refers to the lands east of Europe. Tunisia isn't East of Europe. As for Pakistan being Middle East I guess you could say that since you aren't considered in the Far East.

We are not far easterners or middles easterners we are south asiansers with border touching middle east and central asia